Wiring up an LC1 - Page 3 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


General Miata Chat A place to talk about anything Miata

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-08-2007, 02:56 PM   #41
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
AbeFM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 3,048
Total Cats: 8
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saml01 View Post
I picked the wrong time of the year to do this, I was freeeezing. I didnt have enough energy to run the wires for the gauge even.
I took a turkey deep frier, drilled out the fitting, and run it to the natural gas for the water heater. Then I crank it up and have a giant 2' tall flame, it keeps the garage nice and toasty and is way cheaper than propane bottles or running 20 500W "worklight" garage heaters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saml01 View Post
Sweet. I found one for mine. Hopefully it the picture is big enough to help my friend find one for me. I figured, instead of chopping into my sensor, ill have a friend of mine find me a toasted one with the same plug that I can chop off.
Sometimes it can be basically impossible to solder wires on an O2. I spent a long time trying to do it only to have everyone tell me it couldn't be done. I was DAMNED sure I'd managed it anyway, since it looked and felt ok but people said it wouldn't work.
Well, it didn't.

Then again, it turned out the one I'd soldered in was ALSO bad, which I found out after I crimped it. :-P Anyway, my point is you might want to just butt-splice it in.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Saml01 View Post
As for the lighting for the gauges, I had a great idea to do without a add a circuit. The day time running light plug under our dashes has a ground and a 12v switched, so I will be using that for the gauges. I need to find out if it has a 12v that power up with the head lights so I can have my DB gauge dim when they are on.
I wired my guages into the feed for my hazard lights button. Not just cause it was handy, but because it's slick to have the guages all fade in and out like the facotry ones when you dim them.


Other comments:

You need a pretty healthy resistor for losing the rear O2. Depending on your car, the OBD-II circuit is pretty smart about checking if it's there. If you can emultate the signal with the WBO2 you should be cool, otherwise you'll have to get a O2 simulator, the OEM ECU looks for a time varying signal, that's slightly leaner, with some lag time from the front O2 on the rear NB, o it complains. I have some pics of my install of the O2Sim and I didn't want to drag around an old sensor just for the resistor so I put on a $2 power resistor. I think it does need to be pretty healthy, I also seem to remember the one I got was about 50-100% over rated - but it was there and cheap.

http://abefm.smugmug.com/gallery/1158750#54085328
AbeFM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2007, 03:37 PM   #42
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago (Over two miles from Wrigley Field. Fuck the Cubs. Fuck them in their smarmy goat-hole.)
Posts: 26,315
Total Cats: 1,913
Default

Abe- what value resistor did you use?

I just took a current profile of Ye Olde' 4-wire O2 sensor heater in my car:




As you can see, as the sensor comes up to temperature, it settles into a steady-state current draw of about 1100ma. The system voltage for this test was 12.3 volts, so that's 13.5 watts, or an effective resistance of about 11.2 ohms.

I'd think that a 15 ohm power resistor would probably be sufficient to satisfy the ECU that the O2 sensor heater appears to be functioning. That would be about 12 watts of power at normal operating voltage (13.5 volts) which is enough heat that you probably wouldn't want the resistor touching your skin or resting against an insulated wire, but it'd work.
Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2007, 04:12 PM   #43
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
AbeFM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 3,048
Total Cats: 8
Default

I think I used something higher, to keep the power down. It's extra heat and even waste HP (ok, not much of it, maybe 1% of a horsepower). I think I used a 50ohm 5 watt or so.

edit: Yeah it's cheaper, too, getting a low wattage resistor.
AbeFM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2007, 06:01 PM   #44
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago (Over two miles from Wrigley Field. Fuck the Cubs. Fuck them in their smarmy goat-hole.)
Posts: 26,315
Total Cats: 1,913
Default

OK, so in the spirit of answering the OP's question, to remove the front NB sensor and replace it with the simulated NB output of a wideband:

1- Buy a ~50 ohm, 10 watt power resistor, such as Digikey 47W-10-ND.


2- (edit)

I got step 2 backwards the first time. The ECU provides to the ground for the heaters, not the supply. So it goes +12 -> resistor -> ECU's heater terminal.

Last edited by Joe Perez; 12-08-2007 at 08:29 PM.
Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2007, 06:26 PM   #45
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
AbeFM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 3,048
Total Cats: 8
Default

yeah - what he said. :-) I left mine up by the steering collum, away from any wires or any weather.

N00b question here: Where is a good place to PUT the WBO2? I have two bungs readily available to me, one just after the elbow from the turbo, and one at the end of my DP. Since I'm getting a nice shiney new one (thanks WOT - though I wonder what it all comes with), I want to put it somewhere not-dumb so I can not-burn-it-out or get slow, meaningless responses.
AbeFM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2007, 06:33 PM   #46
Ben
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (33)
 
Ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: atlanta-ish
Posts: 12,689
Total Cats: 99
Default

You want it just a little forward of the cat. Mine was much more reliable with a little aluminum winged heatsink sandwiched between the sensor and bung.
Ben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2007, 07:20 PM   #47
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
AbeFM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 3,048
Total Cats: 8
Default

Got a pic of that? It's to keep temps down, or change the airflow or...? What do you mean "reliable"?
AbeFM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2007, 09:20 PM   #48
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (9)
 
Saml01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,730
Total Cats: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbeFM View Post


Sometimes it can be basically impossible to solder wires on an O2. I spent a long time trying to do it only to have everyone tell me it couldn't be done. I was DAMNED sure I'd managed it anyway, since it looked and felt ok but people said it wouldn't work.
Well, it didn't.

Then again, it turned out the one I'd soldered in was ALSO bad, which I found out after I crimped it. :-P Anyway, my point is you might want to just butt-splice it in.


You need a pretty healthy resistor for losing the rear O2. Depending on your car, the OBD-II circuit is pretty smart about checking if it's there. If you can emultate the signal with the WBO2 you should be cool, otherwise you'll have to get a O2 simulator, the OEM ECU looks for a time varying signal, that's slightly leaner, with some lag time from the front O2 on the rear NB, o it complains. I have some pics of my install of the O2Sim and I didn't want to drag around an old sensor just for the resistor so I put on a $2 power resistor. I think it does need to be pretty healthy, I also seem to remember the one I got was about 50-100% over rated - but it was there and cheap.
Well thats what I meant, just splice it in. For now though I figure ill drive around with the check engine light. When I put the turbo in, ill throw it into a bung. If I dont get the turbo in(within a year) ill throw on a resistor and emulate the signal. Luckily I can probably get that resistor for free, and its only 50 cents. pfft.

Thanks for the great responses guys, you really did a big favor for me with this issue. You're going to like my next thread even more, I promise.
Saml01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2007, 10:01 PM   #49
Ben
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (33)
 
Ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: atlanta-ish
Posts: 12,689
Total Cats: 99
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbeFM View Post
Got a pic of that? It's to keep temps down, or change the airflow or...? What do you mean "reliable"?
I got sensor overheat errors when running the car moderately hard before installing the heatsink. I'm not the only one. Innovate recommended to buy their $80 sink, or build one from copper, but aluminum was easier to find. Got something like 22ga sheet Al, cut it into appx 6"x4", bent it like \_/ , drilled a hole in the center of the horizontal part, and pushed the sensor through to sandwich it between the sensor and bung. The wings run parallel to the exhaust pipe. Had to tweak one side a little to make it fit, but like magic, no more overheats. I would suspect that in any TC application, adding the heatsink would extend the life of the sensor (which is $50). So it's good use of $5 anyway.
Ben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2007, 10:07 PM   #50
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago (Over two miles from Wrigley Field. Fuck the Cubs. Fuck them in their smarmy goat-hole.)
Posts: 26,315
Total Cats: 1,913
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saml01 View Post
You're going to like my next thread even more, I promise.
If it doesn't begin with "So I finally installed the turbo..." then you're probably looking at a ban.
Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2007, 03:30 AM   #51
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
AbeFM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 3,048
Total Cats: 8
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
If it doesn't begin with "So I finally installed the turbo..." then you're probably looking at a ban.
Hahaha, Indeed. Remember, people with a turbo have bigger penises.

People with one on their bike have to buy special pants. :-)


I still want a pic of this O2 sheild... It's outside the pipe or in it?
AbeFM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2007, 11:20 AM   #52
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago (Over two miles from Wrigley Field. Fuck the Cubs. Fuck them in their smarmy goat-hole.)
Posts: 26,315
Total Cats: 1,913
Default

The "official" heatsink / extender thingy: http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/x...cat=250&page=2

What Ben is describing:

Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2007, 11:54 AM   #53
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (9)
 
Saml01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,730
Total Cats: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
If it doesn't begin with "So I finally installed the turbo..." then you're probably looking at a ban.
No No. You have to work out allllll your megasquirt problems before a turbo. This one though really has me scratching my head.
Saml01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2007, 01:57 PM   #54
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
AbeFM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 3,048
Total Cats: 8
Default

Joe/Ben,
Cool, thanks. I sorta thought that was what you meant, but couldn't believe it. :-) The innovative part looks really nice, but pretty spendy.
AbeFM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2007, 02:45 PM   #55
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago (Over two miles from Wrigley Field. Fuck the Cubs. Fuck them in their smarmy goat-hole.)
Posts: 26,315
Total Cats: 1,913
Default

Actually, innovate describes the DIY heatsink on page 8 of the LC-1 manual:
The maximum temperature of the sensor at the bung (the sensor hexagon) should not exceed 500C or 900F. If these temperatures are exceeded your application you should either install a copper heat sink (instructions below) or the Innovate Motorsports Heat-Sink Bung extender (HBX-1). The bung extender is recommended for situations where airflow is restricted or the encountered heat is higher than a heat sink can handle.

How to fabricate a copper heat sink:

Use a 4 x 4 (10cm x 10 cm) sheet of copper sheet metal 14ga (1.5mm) thick. Drill a hole in the center with the same diameter of the oxygen sensor threads ~3/4 (19mm).
Fold the sides up 45 deg and mount it between the sensor and the bung like you would a big washer. Orient it such that the sides are exposed to good airflow.
And they supply this illustration (which I should have copied rather than re-drawing it from scratch):

Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2007, 06:06 PM   #56
Elite Member
iTrader: (24)
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Cypress, TX
Posts: 3,778
Total Cats: 35
Default

Would said Heat sync allow me to run my wideband in the stock GReddy NB O2 sensor position without affecting the life of the sensor?
Bryce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2007, 06:08 PM   #57
Ben
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (33)
 
Ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: atlanta-ish
Posts: 12,689
Total Cats: 99
Default

probably not
Ben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2007, 06:46 PM   #58
Elite Member
iTrader: (13)
 
cjernigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 8,147
Total Cats: 6
Default

Why risk it? Can you afford to frequently replace your sensor?
cjernigan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2007, 06:57 PM   #59
Elite Member
iTrader: (24)
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Cypress, TX
Posts: 3,778
Total Cats: 35
Default

Nope. I guess that means getting a bung welded on.
Bryce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2007, 08:22 PM   #60
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
AbeFM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 3,048
Total Cats: 8
Default

i'm trying to remember where i put mine, but without running home to check or hitting my own website to find out - ha - i thought it was in the upper dp. and it's lasted a goodly long time. then again, i only rarely have it powered, i wonder if that effects life.
AbeFM is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Buzzing from driver side of engine bay? (MS3 install) nick470 MEGAsquirt 7 06-16-2017 02:53 PM
My solution for Oiltemp and Oilpressure input into Megasuirt (MS3) Zaphod MEGAsquirt 41 01-24-2016 01:25 PM
MSPNPPro-MM0105: Coolant Temperature Output slomiata MEGAsquirt 5 10-07-2015 02:11 PM
Are my coils failing? viriiguy General Miata Chat 5 09-28-2015 08:39 PM
wiring wideband ground to battery terminal btabor ECUs and Tuning 10 09-28-2015 06:33 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:34 PM.