It won't start. - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


General Miata Chat A place to talk about anything Miata

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 11-11-2006, 02:49 PM   #1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tucson "it's 110" Arizona
Posts: 1,017
Total Cats: 0
Unhappy It won't start.

Trying to get the miata started after installing the Pierburg pump. I disconnected the injector relay while it was idling to depressurize the system. Once it stalled I hooked the plug back up.

I drained all the gas from the car and hooked up the pump. I put 2 gallons into the tank. Primed the system for a total of maybe 2 minutes, and can feel the fuel pumping through the lines under the hood.

The pumps "whur" when priming, I'm assuming that's how it's supposed to sound. Checked all fuses, thought maybe one was blown, they look good.

I just pulled an injector and it didn't smell like gas. So, is this an injector problem? I've been cranking and cranking so the injectors should be wet? Injector relay?

Last edited by UofACATS; 11-11-2006 at 05:25 PM.
UofACATS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2006, 05:38 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Holiday, FL
Posts: 563
Total Cats: 0
Default

fuses "look" good? but does that mean they ARE good? Test em out first
Fritch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2006, 07:22 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
LOLA - 92's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: SWAMPS OF FLORIDA !!!
Posts: 1,161
Total Cats: 0
Default

Maybe the pump is running "reverse"?
LOLA - 92 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2006, 08:42 PM   #4
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tucson "it's 110" Arizona
Posts: 1,017
Total Cats: 0
Default

Hell, maybe. I don't really know what that means

I could post a pic of the Pierburg. Maybe it's in "backwards" you're saying?

Just comfirmed 12 volts at the injector. How can I do a one person spark test?
UofACATS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2006, 02:16 AM   #5
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,892
Total Cats: 1,792
Default

does this help?



Attachment 2525

Last edited by Braineack; 10-02-2007 at 04:01 PM.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2006, 03:10 AM   #6
Elite Member
iTrader: (5)
 
akaryrye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Central California
Posts: 2,526
Total Cats: 0
Default

Almost every single time i have had a problem like this, it turned out to be something I messed with and didnt put back together right ... namely stuff like leaving the cas plug out, or something like that. If you only messed with the pump and its turning on, make sure you have it pumping in the right direction. Lol i know it sounds simple but stuff like that is easy to do.
akaryrye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2006, 04:09 AM   #7
Elite Member
iTrader: (5)
 
akaryrye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Central California
Posts: 2,526
Total Cats: 0
Default

any word?
akaryrye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2006, 04:22 AM   #8
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: PA/DC
Posts: 468
Total Cats: 0
Default

gosh darn that pic looks like a pain in the BOOOTY!
Snowsurfer03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2006, 07:21 AM   #9
AFM Crusader
iTrader: (18)
 
olderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Wayne, NJ
Posts: 4,438
Total Cats: 84
Default

Are you sure you don't have the polarity of the connections reversed? Is the install identical to the picture? Sort of looks like the one here, but reversed: http://www.rev2red.com/images/cars/begi4install.pdf
olderguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2006, 09:54 AM   #10
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,892
Total Cats: 1,792
Default

it is the same picture but i flipped it since when I got up under the car I noicted the PPF isn't on the outside. and above picture is how it looks when you crawl under the car to install it.

double checking polarity makes sense. if you installed it correctly but it's flowing back into the tank, you wont have any fuel at the rail.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2006, 06:22 PM   #11
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tucson "it's 110" Arizona
Posts: 1,017
Total Cats: 0
Default

Sorry fellas, I have two threads about the same problem. I'll continue here, and edit the other to direct here. Thanks for the help!!

I posted pics in the other thread, which I'll link to here.

Pics of the installed (hopefully backwards) Pump.

https://www.miataturbo.net/forums/sh...0&postcount=10
https://www.miataturbo.net/forums/sh...1&postcount=11
UofACATS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2006, 07:29 PM   #12
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,892
Total Cats: 1,792
Default

install is correct. pull the return at the engine bay and verify it dumps fuel. if not, try reversing the power leads on the pump and see if that doesnt fix it.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2006, 08:34 PM   #13
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tucson "it's 110" Arizona
Posts: 1,017
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by braineack View Post
install is correct. pull the return at the engine bay and verify it dumps fuel. if not, try reversing the power leads on the pump and see if that doesnt fix it.
Pulled. Plenty of fuel there. Battery is getting low, going to charge w/ another vehicle.

Tried a spark test. Holding the plug close to the head to verify spark. Got a yellow spark. I know it's supposted to be a strong blue, but the low battery explains that, and it was fully charged when I started. Still, will try jumping it.

The INJ relay/fuse under the hood. Any way to test it? I have a voltmeter. Seems the pumps are working and there is spark present. Switched out the engine fuse under the dash even though it was good.

Double checked it all again. The power/ground to the Pierburg is good, and it's spliced into the blue/red power wire at the stock pump. Looked over the bay for obvious screw ups couldn't see any.

Just so I feel better, the air introduced into the fuel lines just pumps through the lines and back into the tank yes? No problem there?

The pump is purchased used from Joel "IntrnlStorm" so I'm sure it works fine. What the shiz am I forgetting......
UofACATS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2006, 09:36 PM   #14
AFM Crusader
iTrader: (18)
 
olderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Wayne, NJ
Posts: 4,438
Total Cats: 84
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by UofACATS View Post
Just so I feel better, the air introduced into the fuel lines just pumps through the lines and back into the tank yes? No problem there?

What the shiz am I forgetting......
Correct on the first item. What else did you do?
olderguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2006, 09:39 PM   #15
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tucson "it's 110" Arizona
Posts: 1,017
Total Cats: 0
Default

OK, some good info. Charged battery up with another vehicle.

Jumped GND and FP under the hood, turned key to power the pumps. Checked the voltage at the Pierburg, it was low. Checked voltage at the connection to the stock pump wire and it was 8.8V. Disconnected the Pierburg power wire and checked again, it was 10.8V.

Left the Pierburg power wire unhooked and it started. Power wire back on, does not start.

So, either the power/ground connections, fuel hose connections, or bad pump, right?

The ground was connected to the pump when I got it. It's got a "melt-type shrink plastic" coating covering the connection, but it's solid. The ground connects to the ground already present near the pump with the bolt that's there. I cleaned the connection before install.

I think the fuel lines are correct, I posted them earlier today, #11. B-money confirmed correct install.

I also think the pump is good as Joel sold me other parts that work fine, and he pulled the pump off his car when it was working fine, plus there is fuel in the return under the hood, plus I trust Joel. But, I can't be positive though.



EDIT: Just thinking the whole thing over, I'm thinking it's the connection at the power-in at the Peirburg. I didn't clean it like I thought to do. I Think that would cause voltage to drop, but don't know if it would prevent starting. Back to the garage..

Last edited by UofACATS; 11-13-2006 at 09:59 PM.
UofACATS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2006, 11:37 PM   #16
AFM Crusader
iTrader: (18)
 
olderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Wayne, NJ
Posts: 4,438
Total Cats: 84
Default

The voltage shouldn't be that low at the pump no matter what. Sounds like a bad connection or relay contact getting back to the OEM pump or a bad ground, maybe originating at the battery or its' ground to the chassis.
olderguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2006, 01:09 AM   #17
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tucson "it's 110" Arizona
Posts: 1,017
Total Cats: 0
Default

Redid the connection at the pump, no help.

Did a test. Unhooked the power to the Pierburg. Started the car. Powered the Pierburg and the car died immediately.

OG: Tested the stock pump voltage while the car was idling, it was 13 and change. I figure it's recharging the battery, but the voltage there (car running) seems fine.
UofACATS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2006, 09:33 AM   #18
AFM Crusader
iTrader: (18)
 
olderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Wayne, NJ
Posts: 4,438
Total Cats: 84
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by UofACATS View Post
OG: Tested the stock pump voltage while the car was idling, it was 13 and change. I figure it's recharging the battery, but the voltage there (car running) seems fine.
That's where it should be, I misunderstood earlier post. Check the Pierburg by running a separate line before removing it.
olderguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2006, 01:37 PM   #19
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tucson "it's 110" Arizona
Posts: 1,017
Total Cats: 0
Default

I guess I don't fully comprehend how the Pierburg pump works. If the pump is wired directly from the battery will it be pumping constantly? What I'm asking is in the stock setup, does the pump get a regulated or pulsed voltage in order to pump the correct amount of fuel, or does the voltage not matter and the fuel gets regulated by pressure or (?)

So to test, I should start it, then power the Pierburg directly from the battery?
UofACATS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2006, 03:01 PM   #20
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tucson "it's 110" Arizona
Posts: 1,017
Total Cats: 0
Default

UofACATS is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
15x10 - 15x11 6UL @ 949 Racing emilio700 Wheels and Tires 151 06-02-2017 03:36 PM
1994 Spec Miata Race Car SM/SM2/SSM For Sale Quinn Cars for sale/trade 6 10-23-2016 08:58 AM
New 1st generation miata Owner (southwest PA) mtpratt32 Meet and Greet 3 09-24-2015 10:42 PM
00/99 IAC into 92 wiring harness AdoboMiata MEGAsquirt 4 09-22-2015 03:32 AM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:26 AM.