worth it to build a 1.6L - Page 3 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


General Miata Chat A place to talk about anything Miata

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 07-29-2009, 06:39 PM   #41
Guest
iTrader: (1)
 
ray_sir_6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: DFW, TX
Posts: 714
Total Cats: 0
Default

What kind of tires? I was on unshaved 235-40-17 Toyo RA1s. They were good for a few laps, but then they went away pretty quickly. I guess trying to catch a 500whp Evo can do that to a set of tires.
ray_sir_6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2009, 06:44 PM   #42
Elite Member
iTrader: (41)
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Seabrook, TX
Posts: 2,409
Total Cats: 19
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ray_sir_6 View Post
Not many corners would require letting the engine go below 5k rpm. And the whole point of full boost at 5k is to help with TRACTION on the exit of slower corners. Sorry, but spinning the tires out of a corner isn't the fastest way to do it, unless you like drifting.
Right....getting too big of a turbo is to help with traction coming out of a corner. I guess I have been doing it all wrong. The fact that makes sense to you bewilders me.

You should be able to control the car and not set up the car to control you.
rharris19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2009, 06:44 PM   #43
Guest
iTrader: (1)
 
ray_sir_6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: DFW, TX
Posts: 714
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rharris19 View Post
Wow.....just wow. You really are ******* stupid. I am not saying that because I have nothing else better to say. It is just that you can't argue rational thought with irrational people.
Really? So you don't think a 1.6l can spool a GT28 by 5k rpm? That would still leave me 3k rpm to have fun with. How is that irrational? Do I have ANOTHER doubter? DAMN, I thought I had gotten past this in the "A Greddy can't make that much power on the WG" thread. I don't say **** unless it's 100% rational and plausible. I have a very good knowledge base that I rely on, and it isnt your average forum member.
ray_sir_6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2009, 06:46 PM   #44
Elite Member
iTrader: (41)
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Seabrook, TX
Posts: 2,409
Total Cats: 19
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ray_sir_6 View Post
Really? So you don't think a 1.6l can spool a GT28 by 5k rpm? That would still leave me 3k rpm to have fun with. How is that irrational? Do I have ANOTHER doubter? DAMN, I thought I had gotten past this in the "A Greddy can't make that much power on the WG" thread. I don't say **** unless it's 100% rational and plausible. I have a very good knowledge base that I rely on, and it isnt your average forum member.
So 400-450hp on a 1.6 with a 2876R is rational? Also, you only have 2400rpm to go there buddy, unless you build the head. Which you probably should with that small of a useable window to get as much as you can.
rharris19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2009, 06:50 PM   #45
Guest
iTrader: (1)
 
ray_sir_6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: DFW, TX
Posts: 714
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rharris19 View Post
Right....getting too big of a turbo is to help with traction coming out of a corner. I guess I have been doing it all wrong. The fact that makes sense to you bewilders me.

You should be able to control the car and not set up the car to control you.
I don't have a big turbo yet. I'm still cruising with the Greddy TD04H-15G. It spooled too fast, and was making the car hard to drive out of a corner without having the back end kick out. So we tuned the boost controller and the cam gears to try and move it later in the RPMs so we could get more traction coming out of the slower corners. I try to set the car up for the track, not just force the car to work.
ray_sir_6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2009, 06:52 PM   #46
Guest
iTrader: (1)
 
ray_sir_6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: DFW, TX
Posts: 714
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rharris19 View Post
So 400-450hp on a 1.6 with a 2876R is rational? Also, you only have 2400rpm to go there buddy, unless you build the head. Which you probably should with that small of a useable window to get as much as you can.
8k is the limit for the stock valvetrain in the 1.6l. Not 7400. Yes, GT2876R with 9.5:1 CR Wiseco Pistons, Methanol injection kit, and an AEM EMS. Should spool rather nicely.
ray_sir_6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2009, 06:53 PM   #47
Elite Member
iTrader: (41)
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Seabrook, TX
Posts: 2,409
Total Cats: 19
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ray_sir_6 View Post
I don't have a big turbo yet. I'm still cruising with the Greddy TD04H-15G. It spooled too fast, and was making the car hard to drive out of a corner without having the back end kick out. So we tuned the boost controller and the cam gears to try and move it later in the RPMs so we could get more traction coming out of the slower corners. I try to set the car up for the track, not just force the car to work.
Then obviously you need to learn to drive your car or get something you can handle. I have never heard anyone say "man my turbo sure does spool too fast". I am done shitting on this guys thread.
rharris19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2009, 06:57 PM   #48
Elite Member
iTrader: (46)
 
Stein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 4,812
Total Cats: 138
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ray_sir_6 View Post
I don't have a big turbo yet. I'm still cruising with the Greddy TD04H-15G. It spooled too fast, and was making the car hard to drive out of a corner without having the back end kick out.
You friggin' idiot, that's what you right foot is for.
Stein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2009, 06:59 PM   #49
Guest
iTrader: (1)
 
ray_sir_6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: DFW, TX
Posts: 714
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rharris19 View Post
Then obviously you need to learn to drive your car or get something you can handle. I have never heard anyone say "man my turbo sure does spool too fast". I am done shitting on this guys thread.
I have a hired gun that drives. "The Stig" as I call him. He's been given tons of free rides in race cars just based on his skill. Keith Verges gave him a free ride in his SM, Bob Stretch gave him a free ride in his ITA Miata, and might give him a seat in a GTA V8 car. He is currently in a Sprint Car, also a 100% free sponsored ride. So driving skill isn't an issue.
ray_sir_6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2009, 07:02 PM   #50
Guest
iTrader: (1)
 
ray_sir_6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: DFW, TX
Posts: 714
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stein View Post
You friggin' idiot, that's what you right foot is for.
You can only make some much adjustment with a tiny turbo to control car position with the go-pedal. He was having issues coming out of Rattlesnake in 2d, so we moved the powerband up so he could get more traction and hit boost when he wanted it. It showed in the lap times, that is what matters.
ray_sir_6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2009, 07:37 PM   #51
Senior Member
iTrader: (13)
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Macon, Ga
Posts: 826
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ray_sir_6 View Post
You can only make some much adjustment with a tiny turbo to control car position with the go-pedal. He was having issues coming out of Rattlesnake in 2d, so we moved the powerband up so he could get more traction and hit boost when he wanted it. It showed in the lap times, that is what matters.
No one cares. This really isnt what this thread is about.......
Sam Amporful is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2009, 12:05 AM   #52
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

You're going to have problems with the 2176 because it makes 18psi at 4200rpm in my buddy's racecar.

What lap times did he turn at MSR's 1.7 CCW? I'd love to see where we line up with a mystery champion.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2009, 12:10 AM   #53
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 14,371
Total Cats: 1,332
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ray_sir_6 View Post
1.6l rev higher stock than the 1.8l. The slight increase in displacement isn't gonna make it spool a bigger turbo much faster.
It's like a 15% increase in displacement, you *******. Let me take 15% out of your paycheck and then you can call it slight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ray_sir_6 View Post
You'll be able to spin a 1.6l higher to make up for it. I prefer to spin 8k rpm, and make full boost around 4.5-5k rpm.
You're a level beyond retard. Do you even own a ******* Miata? Stock 1.6 revs higher than stock 1.8?

Mods, can we please just ban this guy? He's a noncontributing troll, just like Hyper.
Savington is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2009, 12:26 AM   #54
Elite Member
iTrader: (28)
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: St. Augustine FL
Posts: 2,310
Total Cats: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ray_sir_6 View Post
I have a hired gun that drives. "The Stig" as I call him. He's been given tons of free rides in race cars just based on his skill. Keith Verges gave him a free ride in his SM, Bob Stretch gave him a free ride in his ITA Miata, and might give him a seat in a GTA V8 car. He is currently in a Sprint Car, also a 100% free sponsored ride. So driving skill isn't an issue.
Your comparing your Driving to the stigs' ...... That's just stupid enough.... Even if your not the fact Is the stig Is an amazing driver imho and for you to say BS like that, is retarded!! Your driving skill is no where near the stigs so you shouldn't even care.... why don't you and your boy friend Zach effran go have sex in the back of your mom's mini van ok? don't BS It's Gay and NOT ok
p51hellfire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2009, 12:28 AM   #55
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

welcome to the dallas track scene. Everyone is faster than everyone, yet no one knows lap times.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2009, 12:31 AM   #56
Cpt. Slow
iTrader: (25)
 
curly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 12,110
Total Cats: 518
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Mods, can we please just ban this guy? He's a noncontributing, Nonsubscribing, troll, just like Hyper.
Fixed.

It is a sound theory though. If you have too much power and aren't coordinated enough to adjust it by backing off the gas pedal, tuning out power for that rpm range would work. A better idea would be to figure out how to get more traction and use that power, rather than wasting it. But what do I know, my turbo'd track **** has street tires and an open diff, so I don't have traction issues to deal with.
curly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2009, 12:55 AM   #57
Elite Member
iTrader: (46)
 
Stein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 4,812
Total Cats: 138
Default

First ever use of the Ignore List function. Works pretty sweet!
Stein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2009, 01:13 AM   #58
Guest
iTrader: (1)
 
ray_sir_6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: DFW, TX
Posts: 714
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
It's like a 15% increase in displacement, you *******. Let me take 15% out of your paycheck and then you can call it slight.



You're a level beyond retard. Do you even own a ******* Miata? Stock 1.6 revs higher than stock 1.8?

Mods, can we please just ban this guy? He's a noncontributing troll, just like Hyper.
I already get >15% taken out of it.

Add a few more psi, and BAM, replacement for displacement. This is a turbo forum, right?

I was actually refering to the redline assigned to the 1.6l vs 1.8l on the stock ECU. I have only found one 1.8l (2.0l stroker 688whp, I am sure most know who that would be, rev'd to 9k or something insane) that revs past 7k (went to almost 7.5k) on their dyno pulls. I actually don't know what the 1.8l can safely rev to stock. I know the 1.6l is 8k cause of the hyd lifters.

I still don't see why this is an argument/discussion. You can make more than enough power with a 1.6l or a 1.8l to overwhelm the chassis. Does it really make sense to swap to a 1.8l and still have to build it like you would the 1.6l to not be able to make any more USABLE power with it? If the car currently has a 1.6l, keep it, if it has a 1.8l, keep it, if you find a cheap 1.8l to swap in, it's not gonna hurt you any.

This is worse than the idiot Honda guys arguing over using a B16, B18A/B/B20, or B18C bottom end. They will all make more than enough power to **** yourself if you wanted.

I wonder if we'll have the "Swap in a MZR" guys in here next, like the K20 guys in Honda world?
ray_sir_6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2009, 01:33 AM   #59
Elite Member
iTrader: (41)
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Seabrook, TX
Posts: 2,409
Total Cats: 19
Default

I would like to think enough of our society that someone couldn't be this stupid. You are puting subjective reasoning into something that was an objective question. From an objective stand point, a 1.8L will be more effiecient at making more power from the same size turbo and at a lower RPM. From a subjective stand point, I feel it is a worthwhile investment.

You have 2 engines that could be pretty easily traded for a buildable 1.8L. Once you build the 1.6L the spare will be useless.
rharris19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2009, 01:36 AM   #60
Guest
iTrader: (1)
 
ray_sir_6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: DFW, TX
Posts: 714
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by p51hellfire View Post
Your comparing your Driving to the stigs' ...... That's just stupid enough.... Even if your not the fact Is the stig Is an amazing driver imho and for you to say BS like that, is retarded!! Your driving skill is no where near the stigs so you shouldn't even care.... why don't you and your boy friend Zach effran go have sex in the back of your mom's mini van ok? don't BS It's Gay and NOT ok
Reading Comprehension isn't your strong suit, is it? I said my friend, whom I call the Stig. How can you comment on my driving skills, you don't even know me?!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
welcome to the dallas track scene. Everyone is faster than everyone, yet no one knows lap times.
Lap times don't matter, it's the cars you beat/kept up with at the track that matters. Sub 1:28s (1.7 CCW) is all I'll admit to right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by curly View Post
Fixed.

It is a sound theory though. If you have too much power and aren't coordinated enough to adjust it by backing off the gas pedal, tuning out power for that rpm range would work. A better idea would be to figure out how to get more traction and use that power, rather than wasting it. But what do I know, my turbo'd track **** has street tires and an open diff, so I don't have traction issues to deal with.
Well, if I was using my Hoosiers the car would have probably hooked, but on street tires, eh, no. We tuned for what we were running, which is how your supposed to do it. With the tiny Greddy turbo, you don't really get much of a chance to modulate the boost with throttle inputs, plus we weren't trying to baby it around the track, we were out to beat on an Evo.
ray_sir_6 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Raleigh: Fiberglass headlight scope, 1.6L ECU, AFM, Hardtop latches, more bigmackloud Miata parts for sale/trade 13 09-22-2017 01:34 PM
Need help - Stock Balancer and Fastforward overlay pulleys Frank_and_Beans Supercharger Discussion 13 09-12-2016 09:17 PM
LucaCarMods's Boosted Dutch Miata Build! LucaCarMods Build Threads 11 02-14-2016 07:13 AM
WTB MP62 (Hotside) (NB2) Rick02R WTB 3 01-03-2016 08:18 PM
Bad head gasket or ? shooterschmidty Engine Performance 8 09-30-2015 11:28 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:13 PM.