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Old 09-28-2009, 08:26 PM   #21
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electrolysis ****, look it up sometime >:3 (mostly only old timey hot rodders care about this **** though)
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Old 09-28-2009, 09:29 PM   #22
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Were the cylinders in fact the same material as the heads? The engine case itself was made from a high magnesium alloy, and I always assumed that the jugs were as well.

Of course, they've got steel liners in them, not sure if that's part of the equation. (Were the liners wet? I've never seen one removed.)

That -is- the difference, I think the sleeves are steel, and the heads are definitely aluminum. Dissimilar metals. It was a wet-liner engine.

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If I recall, the wassers did use head gaskets. Possible contributor?
An O-ring at the top of the sleeve; at least some. The thing is rubber, in a tough environment.

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Too many variables, and my knowledge of that particular engine is pretty limited. On the other hand, consider that those long studs, going all the way from the head, through the jugs and into the case, is electrically similar to a ground strap.
The jugs in this case don't have any contact with the studs, just the block and head, however your point could still be accurate.

I looked for some pics of an engine apart, can't find any.
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Old 09-28-2009, 09:49 PM   #23
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does anyone actually use distilled water? also has anyone ever use engine ice on a car, lots of track bikes run it
http://www.engineice.cc/faq.html
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Old 09-28-2009, 10:03 PM   #24
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Yep, only distilled water here unless I'm in a pinch. My coolant gets changed so frequently though that it gets back to distilled within a month or so.
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Old 09-28-2009, 11:02 PM   #25
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does anyone actually use distilled water?
I use only distilled water. At roughly 99 every other year, it's cheap insurance. Use it in the WI system, too.

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The jugs in this case don't have any contact with the studs, just the block and head, however your point could still be accurate.
Yeah, I know. That's one big thing that separates it from a conventional water-cooled engine.

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I looked for some pics of an engine apart, can't find any.
I've seen some in the past, just never paid a lot of attention to the mating surfaces. Seems that despite the availability of decent-quality aftermarket aluminum cases, a lot of folks are still cutting 'em down and converting to air-cooled for use in T1s.

Actually, that last bit of trivia reminded me that of course the sleeves are wet- the outer cylinder housing is a cast-in feature of the case, and the "liners" themselves are basically just T1 jugs with the fins cut off. (Ok, it's an oversimplification, but you know what I mean.) I won't even bother trying to explain what I was picturing previously- in order for it to make sense you'd need a fifth of rum & a severe blow to the head.
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Old 09-28-2009, 11:09 PM   #26
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Yep, only distilled water here unless I'm in a pinch. My coolant gets changed so frequently though that it gets back to distilled within a month or so.
interesting because i've worked in a new car dealer since i was 17(12 years) and i've never seen anyone use anything but tap water and i've never seen anything seriously bad like corroding, scaling.....
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Old 09-28-2009, 11:12 PM   #27
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(Ok, it's an oversimplification, but you know what I mean.) I won't even bother trying to explain what I was picturing previously- in order for it to make sense you'd need a fifth of rum & a severe blow to the head.

I understand, I work on 'dubs.



On distilled water, again, Vanagons damn near demanded it, and it did help. But to carry things further, I have been told that for that much more insurance, distilled and -deionized- water is helpful. Apparently the distillation process charges the water, increasing the potential for trouble.
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Old 09-28-2009, 11:25 PM   #28
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Distilled here. City water ate my hot water heater. I'm not putting that **** in my car.

Joe, I really did laugh. They died of shame. So true...
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Old 09-29-2009, 10:51 AM   #29
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also has anyone ever use engine ice on a car, lots of track bikes run it
Engine Ice - F.A.Q
Hadn't really looked into it previously.

According to that web site, EngineIce is just propylene glycol pre-mixed with water. So it's basically the same as the "Non-toxic" or "Safer Formula" antifreeze you see at the auto parts store (the one with a picture of an SUV up in the mountains, with an inset of a young boy & his dog), only much more expensive. So on the downside, you'll need to use much more of it if you intend to poison a cat.

On the further downside:
Propylene glycol oxidizes when exposed to air and heat. When this occurs lactic acid is formed.[2][3] If not properly inhibited, this fluid can be very corrosive.[citation needed] Protodin is added to propylene glycol to act as a buffer, preventing low pH attack on the system metals. It forms a protective skin inside the tank and pipelines which helps to prevent acid attack that cause corrosion.

Besides cooling system breakdown, biological fouling also occurs. Once bacterial slime starts, the corrosion rate of the system increases. In systems where a glycol solution is maintained on a continuous basis, regular monitoring of freeze protection, pH, specific gravity, inhibitor level, color and biological contamination should be checked routinely.

(Source)
On the further downside, propylene glycol has slightly poorer anti-freeze and anti-boil properties than ethylene glycol for a given concentration in water:


Source: http://www.atlanticchemical.com/docs/pds/PGFG.PDS.pdf


Lastly, although their thermal conductivity & heat transfer capacity (per unit flow rate) are very nearly identical, "In most heat transfer applications ethylene glycol-based fluids are your best choice because of their superior heat transfer efficiency. This efficiency is largely due to the lower viscosity of ethylene glycol solutions. Another benefit of this viscosity advantage is lower power consumption for re-circulation pumps and a lower minimum operating temperature. " Source: Ethylene vs. Propylene Glycol

Me thinks I shall stick with Agent Orange.
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:33 AM   #30
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then i guess it's all hype, except that it's not as slippery or hard to clean off a track. thus not worth it for car unless required
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:39 AM   #31
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then i guess it's all hype,
It's not all hype. At over $40 a gallon, EngineIce will add lightness to your wallet, and this is likely to improve laptimes somewhat.
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Old 10-05-2009, 06:48 PM   #32
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Never grounded. EngineIce -- a sucker and his money.
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