Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats. - WeaponX Coils & B.E. Coil On Plug Conversion PNP

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Quote:

Originally Posted by TravisR (Post 331810)

...
Dwell Reducer built in. (Toyota coils are being overdriven 200-250% on stock dwell)

And they're firing at double duty in wasted spark form. That's equivalent to running them at double the intended rpm of an OE application. Are your coils designed for a wasted spark ign?

I haven't seen any failures here, but I've got an RX300 that runs the same units and three of them have died around 95k. This is a car that spends nearly all it's rpm range around 2-3krpm.

will the cops be packaged better than the oil pump gears?

lol

Weapon-X coils are built for the Mustang crowd which runs wasted spark up to 7000. Reportedly these are capable of 9000 R.P.M. +. I doubt they would stand that kind of abuse in a constant use situation they are nearly at continuous operation at 9000 R.P.M. with their spec dwell.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hustler (Post 335493)

will the cops be packaged better than the oil pump gears?

lol

Alright everyone might not get that, or be into hustler humor. Bubble wrap and the works...

Quote:

Originally Posted by TravisR (Post 335496)

Alright everyone might not get that, or be into hustler humor. Bubble wrap and the works...

Mine were ok though...I guess I was lucky.

so... since this will have a dwell reducer included I can just set my MS to 5ms and let this rig take it from there?

Also, what's the ETA on this? I'll be in for a set of the coils/plugs (no harness/control) at a minimum... might buy the full kit... depends on how spendy I'm feeling when you are ready to take official orders.

Yea thats the plan, I can't put an ETA out there until I get these plugs in. As soon as that comes I'd say no more then a week, and I'll know.

Trav,
Have you considered a solution using LS7 coils? They can be had for about $25/ea new. Plus they are optimum with dwell in the 5.5ms range, pretty much what stock miata PCMs call for.

I never looked into anything besides what was available in aftermarket. The dwell is set right, but the ones I"m looking at arn't full coil on plug, so I would have to find a short boot for them. I'm looking at weapon x to cut me a better price on bulk buy. If it just proves to high for people to pay I might look into something like that.

You are correct, they are coil near plug, not coil on plug. However the short plug leads shouldn't be any trouble at all.

There are 2 different footprints for this coil, the "truck" type might be easier to mount than the car type. But the coils are both the same and they are cheap.

I like your WeaponX idea; I'm just looking for a way to cut cost.

I can definitely understand where you are coming from. I'm going to see what weaponx ends up quoting me. Once I have these connectors its really no extra trouble to do different coils. Wiring harnesses aren't to tough to design. Control boxes take some effort but, I'm pretty sure the megasquirt guys will want the control boxes for igniterless coils anyways.

I think most of us are running without output drivers... so yeah, the majority of the MS users will want an "igniter box" so to speak.

Plugs are here!

http://www.boundaryengineering.com/pimage/plug1.jpg

Freshly designed, and hot from the manufacturer. I'll have the pins in soon for a full function test.

I don't know how I missed this thread.

If you can provide these results:

Quote:

Originally Posted by TravisR (Post 331931)

To sum it up:

Lasts longer.
Dwell Reducer built in. (Toyota coils are being overdriven 200-250% on stock dwell)
About 50% more power to the plug then stock/Toyota coils.(No matter how much boost you are good)
Multiple spark at low R.P.M. for better fuel mileage.
New coils and easy supply of more.
Comes with warrantee
Mil-spec harness
You can hook any set of coils to the control box as igniters and tach signal functions are not done in the coil anymore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TravisR (Post 331931)

The big cost comes from the coils unfortunately. Right now I'm getting the coils for around 200 for the set of 4, and there isn't much I can do to change that. The wiring harness isn't that expensive and the electronics aren't that expensive. I think I have markup at 10%, which is really not much most companies do 20% at least and in the aftermarket car industries its between 40-50% and they sell you under engineered junk.

For the guys with the standalones I could do the coils igniters, and plugs w/o the harness, but right now the way the electronics are setup it is all on one board. So any savings I would get from not putting the other 2 features on there would just be in the cost of components and assembly so maybe 10-20 dollars off whatever the price is then another 40 or so for the harness because the plugs are expensive. I mean 125$-175$ for electronics (igniters, dwell, and tachometer), harness, and some very expensive to produce connectors is not that bad of a price I don't think. There are some slightly lower output coils that I could get from weapon-x that puts out about 120mJ and they would be 160$ for the set. These don't have multi-spark and don't have the omega main spark for high boost, but they are better than stock and the Toyota units. That would bring the price to 280-330, but I'm not much on half assing things. I want to sell the best, because that's what I would put on my car, and that's what I think other people would want to put on theirs.

**also without getting into theory multi-spark has proven to create more torque and slight decrease of fuel consumption as Porsche I know for sure and others use multi-spark systems. They are more expensive units, and they do increase NOX so not every manufacturer wants to deal with the pollution standard implications.

You should consider offering those who already have COPs installed in their cars the rest of the setup without the COPs and you would be able to offer an even lower price. I'd be definitely interested in changing everything in my DIY setup except my COPs.

Everything never fails to take longer then expected, but coils are supposed to be here by the end of the week for another round of testing.

There has been a lot of revising the parts which all caused developement to take longer. A big one is to make the electronics more fail-proof, and make sure things really last. We also have built the 89-93 setup at the same time which originally was going to come later. We then focused on reducing the size of the electronics, so that the box will be the same size as the igniter for the 89-93, and bolt the exact same way. (for the older cars we'll use the same box, and supply a mounting for it somewhere.)

Its coming just hold tight. A lot of engineering going on.

Here is a picture of the coils. We've been using a hacked up harness to test these, here is our more professional start with the real connectors. We'll have the full harness done by next week. I can't wait to have the full system in.

http://www.boundaryengineering.com/cop1.jpg

http://www.boundaryengineering.com/cop2.jpg

Yea I know my bay is ugly, I'm hoping the intake manifold will brighten it up. :giggle:

The prototype? :eek5:

WOW, those are pretty small, I had envisioned huge LS style coils sitting in the Valve Cover. Those put out some serious heat for such a small package.