thumpetto007

iTrader: (15)

I got in a bit of an argument at a car meet and cruise, got a fee hours of passenger time in a 2018 zl1, wicked fast in a straight line, but they are heavy... I know they pretty much smash our lap times, but is there anything that miatas do better? Say cornering speeds and braking?

Lets say Nb2, big grip kit, delrin bushings, os giken, equal grip tires to the camaro, wilwood 11.75 kit, race alignment.

Just for reference, zl1 does laguna seca 1:34 bone stock.

sixshooter

iTrader: (12)

Sigh.

flier129

iTrader: (7)

There's still lots of other variables to consider. What size tire on both cars, what comp weight for both, any aero? Apples vs Oranges here.

Generally speaking with the same talented driver, the min speed for the miata will be higher than the Camaro. Entry speed, exit speed, and likely average speed will be higher for the 600+ hp 2018 Camaro. Still, lots of assumptions and generalizations in what I just typed out.

Godless Commie

iTrader: (2)

As far as I know, a turbo Miata with a skilled driver can do 1.4xx at Laguna Seca.
Anybody can draw their respective conclusions from that.

Roda

Didn't Emilio run a 1:37 in Bullet at MRLS in '17?

After my next trackday, I'll give you a back to back, as we just bought an '18 ZL1... Gotta love it when someone buys a car you want, and trades it in within a couple months with 2700 miles. Put it just barely within our budget...



Randy Pobst got a ZL1 around Willow Springs faster than a McLaren 570s, Porsche GT3 and Shelby GT350R... GM claims 1.1g cornering on the stock Goodyear F1 Supercar tires. I've seen 1.2g on my cell phone lap timer app with our NA (Xidas, big grip, NT01s), and I've pulled on ZL1s on the track in the corners in the past. Not by much though, and as soon as they could get on the gas it was like I shifted to reverse...

I've only done some street miles, and a quick run down the local mountain road so far in the ZL1, but I can tell you this car is very, very good. The acceleration is BONKERS! I'm really looking forward to getting it on the track, but need to find a street tire solution that will tolerate our winter mountain temps, so I can save the stock setup for the track. There are no all seasons available in the stock rear size! Once I get a set of wheels/tires for the street, I can spend money on track time.

Erat

iTrader: (5)

The gauge on the dash says I can hold 1g in my SS with pilot sports on an expressway on ramp. I feel like a zl1 is capable of much more than 1.1g.

flier129

iTrader: (7)

My 135rwhp OEM aero NB1 regularly pulls 1.7g..... I think it's all pretty subjective though.

It's difficult to compare a new $70k sports car, hell it's close enough to a supercar performance wise, to a ~18 year old convertible.

Roda

The 1.1g number came from some GM press info, can't remember where I got it, but real world, on-track it probably will be higher.

thumpetto007

iTrader: (15)

Makes sense. I was just curious, it's very obvious what car is better in every way. Man the zl1 is dreamy. It was interesting how careful it has to be driven, and with huge distances of open road, and vision. In two hours of cruising, he only felt safe enough for full throttle pull once. The engine/exhaust note changed dramatically, very high pitched all of a sudden, and holy crap, warp drive, we closed the gap between us and the camaro in front of us in less than 3 seconds.

I must say, its far more fun to be able to go 10/10ths whenever you want in a slow car, than 5/10ths on the same roads in a fast car. I told the owner (new to cars and driving) about track days, car control clinics, motorsportsreg... I really tried to convey the joys of track driving, and suggested he get his second key programmed to be locked in snow/ice mode for drastically lower power on track, so he could focus on turn in, braking, acceleration zones, driving lines... we'll see how much that sunk in.

Roda

By my calculations, a Miata at 2400lbs with driver needs 325whp to reach the power/weight of the ZL1. ZL1 has a weight/contact patch ratio much worse than a 2400lb Miata on 225s, so with some aero a 300-325hp Miata should theoretically be about as fast around a track.

What the Miata won't have is heated/cooled leather, bluetooth, nav and all the other crap we 1st worlders have come to expect in a GT car.

Which is why our NA will continue to be developed as our track car, while the ZL1 will get tracked a few times a year.

I do agree about the fun quotient of driving a really fast car around on the streets. Even my 140hp NA has too much grip to be really fun at sane street speeds. That said, every time I've jumped in the ZL1 so far it's made me laugh out loud.

2slow

Yes, NB Miata saves you about $60,000 in initial purchase and about $1000 every time you need to swap tires/brakes.

emilio700

iTrader: (3)

A few important notes. Almost without exception, a typical track prepped NA/NB will generate more steady state cornering force than the average Supercar on OEM tires. The Supercar makes up all its time on the straights.
One key detail for the ZL1 is it's OEM tires. Special Nurburgring one lap Goodyear Eagle 3R. TW of 80. They are just a tick slower than an R7. Way faster than a PSC2. We ran them on our GT350 last year at Super Lap Battle.
I know of know other OEM tire that is even close to as grippy. They're faster than Rival-S.

I did a 1:43.761 at Laguna Seca on 205 SM6 with 143whp @ 2400 lbs. Bullet did a 1:37 with rock hard 245/580 R100 slicks and ~260whp with S1 aero. With a fresh set of 245 A7's, I think Bullet would do a 1:34 or so.
Vegas with the sequential, 410whp, time attack aero and 275's would probably do a 1:27.

But apples to apples: full OEM interior, A/C, power windows, passive safety, bumper supports, pump gas to match that 1:34 at Laguna Seca in a daily driver.. One would need an NB making around 400whp with a BMW trans, 245 A7's under pulled OEM fenders and aero equivalent to the ZL1. That might be a high mount GT250 or low mount GTC300, canards roughly scaled, 5" S1 style splitter, flat bottom. Do not underestimate the efficacy of the aero on the ZL1.

portabull

there's a youtube channel that has a couple of brothers rebuilding a zl1 they got from copart. pretty interesting to see what things it has under the skin. i'd rather have the zl1 than the corvette z06 they did earlier.

good2go

iTrader: (2)

. . . . and just to be clear, since multiple people are tossing around reference to the "ZL1" without noting whether or not it has the 1LE option or not, IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE!
There is no doubt that the (plain) ZL1 is amazing, but it's significantly better with the 1LE track package; to the point that it's a outright disservice to generalize them together. In my opinion, the 1LE option is so significant, I'd rather have a basic SS model with it than have a ZL1 without it.
https://www.caranddriver.com/flipboo...from-the-zl1#1


+1 even if only for the ability to track it without overheating. The ZL1 1LE is perhaps the MOST track-able car chevy has made in decades, if not ever.