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Old 06-06-2014, 02:36 PM   #41
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And its not like Fair is ignorant about other chassis. Didn't he have a lot to do with the first really bolt-in LS swaps into E36s? I would love on of those.


Terry IS a smart guy. Too bad he's an annoying and petulant man-child.
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Old 06-06-2014, 03:48 PM   #42
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I'll always be grateful that Ford stuffed a 302 into the early-80s Fox body. It was the move that lifted us out of the Great Car Depression of the late-70s/early-80s. Many of you weren't even alive back then, but the 302 Mustang was a big reason why cars got fun again. The Miata in 1989 was another significant milestone. I'll never forget how awful those late-70s smog cars were. At the nadir, I think the Corvette made 180-190 at the crank -- barely enough to move a disco ball.
Yeah, it was almost a factory made hot rod. Take a 4 banger econo car, stuff a V-8 under the hood, beef up the suspension a little, and add big, meaty tires. All for way less than you could do it yourself. I think I paid less than 15 grand for my Mustang GT in the late 1990's.

Sure, it still plowed through the corners like the other Mustangs (and, to be honest, most cars of the day), but it sure went like a bat out of hell when you floored it.
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Old 06-06-2014, 04:07 PM   #43
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So... this is either a new thing i haven't heard of concerning maybe... the new 5.0?


Or the GM V6 swap that also seems like it would be the ****.
Would it even fit? The Coyote is HUGE with those DOHC heads vs an LSx
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Old 06-06-2014, 04:12 PM   #44
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Would it even fit? The Coyote is HUGE with those DOHC heads vs an LSx


Pretty sure it was the GM DI 3.6 he was talking about.
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Old 06-06-2014, 04:34 PM   #45
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Pretty sure it was the GM DI 3.6 he was talking about.
What the....I don't......why.....
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Old 06-06-2014, 04:35 PM   #46
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Light, compact, makes good power.
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Old 06-06-2014, 04:37 PM   #47
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And probably fits without a lot of tunnel mods. I'm following the project with a lot of interest. Did you see that torque curve? No curve at all. What a dream it would be on track.
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Old 06-06-2014, 04:47 PM   #48
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Coyote big.


Im not sure I really get the 3.6 swap either. Doesn't sound like a sports car motor to me.
Maybe I dont like it because its a 90 degree V6. Its a compromised design.
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Old 06-06-2014, 05:04 PM   #49
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LFX is a 60 V6. 7200 redline. Flat 275 ft-lbs. Overhead cams. Direct injection. All aluminum. 340 pounds all-up. Etc.

Seems like a really good swap for a BP.
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Old 06-06-2014, 05:22 PM   #50
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Looks like we could bolt turbos directly to the head....

Here's a stock photo of the same engine, as used in a couple of the 2014 cadillac lineup...



designated LF3 instead of LFX, but from what I read, it's the same footprint.

Not sure if the LFX 6-speed will be able to handle the LF3. That trans is only rated at about 350 ft-lb. The LF3 is only mated to automatics in the cadillac lineup. It seems like GM did everything they could to make the footprint of this thing compact.
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Old 06-06-2014, 05:40 PM   #51
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No, not crazy. I haven't driven one, my main concern would be the same for any Mustang, Camaro, or other retro muscle car, which is that it'd feel like I'm driving from inside a tank. AKA: zero visibility.

But to compare build prices:

Mustang, you get 300hp/29mpg: $23,180. Couldn't find an LSD option here.

370z, you get 332hp/26mpg: $33,830

MX-5, you get 167hp/28mpg: $27,700

Edit: I was going to edit this saying it's hard to beat the Mustang's pricing and engine performance, but after reading FTB's review above....nope nope nope nope.

These prices are all "out the door", which means after delivery, MSRP. From what I've heard you could possibly knock a couple grand off the Z and 'stang, but not more than a few hundred off the MX-5. Also, they're all freeway MPG. City MPGs are just sad.
I have a brand new 2013 Miata Grand Touring with premium and suspension packages on my lot that I can sell for over $5k off MSRP. I can sell new 2014's for about $3k off. Discounts are as strong on the Miata as on about anything else out there.

As for the Mustang... It's a freaking sick, sick car. That 5.0 is heroic, and sounds perfect. The shifting really isn't bad, and the car does shrink as you drive it fast IMO. I think it would be fun on a road race course, not so much an autox course.

Then again... I drove it once. It's huge, and MPG isn't great. Sweet car though, and great looking too IMO.
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Old 06-06-2014, 05:41 PM   #52
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Oh snap
I thought we were talking about something like this:



I guess this is the rebirth of the LX5?
Maybe GM is going to try to be with the times again. I always thought the old northstar/shortstar were pretty cool engines, but I guess all the good ol' boys cried so much they had to keep making OHV bullshit.
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Old 06-06-2014, 05:50 PM   #53
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The 5.0 Mustang I priced out was 28k with the track package. According to the information I have that is about $6300 off MSRP.

Track Package:
Tires: P255/40R19 Summer-Only, Tire Mobility Kit Replaces mini spare tire, Aggressive Suspension Tuning, Engine Oil Cooler, TORSEN Helical Differential w/3.73 Axle Ratio, 14" Brembo Vented Front Rotors, Brembo 4-piston calipers, Wheels: 19" x 9.0" Dark Stainless Painted Aluminum, Unique Electronic Stability Control (ESC) Tuning, 11.8" Vented Rear Rotors, Boss 302 Radiator

With that said, I still think the Miata Club is the only real choice. Even though it is slow.
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Old 06-06-2014, 05:56 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Full_Tilt_Boogie View Post

Maybe GM is going to try to be with the times again. I always thought the old northstar/shortstar were pretty cool engines, but I guess all the good ol' boys cried so much they had to keep making OHV bullshit.
Yeah definitely. Old, complex DOHC engines with revvy powerbands and a penchant for head gaskets due to stretched head bolts from a failed design are so much better than the simpler pushrod motors making way more torque and power with better fuel economy.

Edit to add quote for conversation continuity
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Old 06-06-2014, 06:00 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by turbofan View Post
Yeah definitely. Old, complex DOHC engines with revvy powerbands and a penchant for head gaskets due to stretched head bolts from a failed design are so much better than the simpler pushrod motors making way more torque and power with better fuel economy.


Now you understand my view on BPs.
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Old 06-06-2014, 06:02 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by turbofan View Post
Yeah definitely. Old, complex DOHC engines with revvy powerbands and a penchant for head gaskets due to stretched head bolts from a failed design are so much better than the simpler pushrod motors making way more torque and power with better fuel economy.
I have no idea who you are talking to or what you are talking about.
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Old 06-06-2014, 06:04 PM   #57
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He's talking about Northstars, which.... were cool. But sucked.
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Old 06-06-2014, 06:07 PM   #58
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He's talking about Northstars, which.... were cool. But sucked.
Indeed.

I added FTB's quote to clarify.
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Old 06-06-2014, 06:47 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by fooger03 View Post
designated LF3 instead of LFX, but from what I read, it's the same footprint.
Link to LFX info:

http://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/gm-engines/lfx/

The one to get would be out of a wrecked Camaro -- setup for RWD with an M6.

Like I said, seems like a pretty cool swap.
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Old 06-06-2014, 06:58 PM   #60
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The real question with any swap path is the driveline.

The whole K24 thing is awesome because you can use cheap/easy/available stuff. And probably not break it, and haul *** on track.

The LSXs and 5.0s are great, but they are so pricey because of the transmissions and diffs. T56s cost more than what I paid for my NA. They are even expensive used/beat up. T5s probably wont hold up to an LSX, and frankly a stockish 5.0 is not all that much more powerful than a basic turbo BP.

If the LFX has a cheap, durable readily available manual trans, then it'll dominate. But that may not be the case. And looking at the future, probably we will not see that happen anymore. 3 pedal setups are going to go the way of the dinosaur. Right along with traditional gas engine cars.
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