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Old 02-16-2010, 04:48 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by thymer View Post
Bah! 9mm, might as well throw rocks at somebody. Damn things bounce off of windshields. Get yourself a real gun, Glock30


Uhm.. .45GAP for example, 185 grain JHP @ 50 yards is moving 970fps and rated at 385 ftlbs.. 9mm Luger 147 Grain JHP @ 50 yards is moving 962fps and rated 302 ftlbs..

Can you say Dead is Dead?

9mm cheaper to shoot too.
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Old 02-16-2010, 06:18 PM   #22
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I've got a p99 specific in band holster for it. I can conceal it under a t-shirt if I wear it inside the wasteband. It would be noticed by a gun enthusiest, but not the average joe. Outsided the wasteband it is much more obvious. I forget where I ordered the holster.
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Old 02-16-2010, 06:20 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by thymer View Post
Bah! 9mm, might as well throw rocks at somebody. Damn things bounce off of windshields. Get yourself a real gun, Glock30
You are correct about the windshields. I feel that I have other problems in my life if I am needing to shoot through automotive glass.
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Old 02-16-2010, 06:29 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by elesjuan View Post


Uhm.. .45GAP for example, 185 grain JHP @ 50 yards is moving 970fps and rated at 385 ftlbs.. 9mm Luger 147 Grain JHP @ 50 yards is moving 962fps and rated 302 ftlbs..

Can you say Dead is Dead?

9mm cheaper to shoot too.
.45 acp 230 grains @ 900fps is about the best people stopper out there. Tons of knock down force and no over-penetration (like 9mm does). I do like the ballistics on the .45GAP and .40, they are good choices but... if your life depends on it, the .45 is the way to go. Ask any spec-ops, FBI, CIA, etc. and they are probably carrying a .45acp. There are many examples out there about bad guys getting hit with multiple 9mm rounds and staying in the fight, not good. 9mm is a great sub-machine gun round (see my avatar) but is mediocre as a duty or carry weapon. I carry either a Glock30 or full size 1911 depending on what I'm wearing.
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Old 02-16-2010, 06:42 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by thymer View Post
.45 acp 230 grains @ 900fps is about the best people stopper out there. Tons of knock down force and no over-penetration (like 9mm does). I do like the ballistics on the .45GAP and .40, they are good choices but... if your life depends on it, the .45 is the way to go. Ask any spec-ops, FBI, CIA, etc. and they are probably carrying a .45acp. There are many examples out there about bad guys getting hit with multiple 9mm rounds and staying in the fight, not good. 9mm is a great sub-machine gun round (see my avatar) but is mediocre as a duty or carry weapon. I carry either a Glock30 or full size 1911 depending on what I'm wearing.
I have to disagree. .40 and .45 are good duty weapons because they are the most versitile when it comes to penetration. 9mm has a tough time going through glass. Not good for duty weapon where this scenerio would be much more prevalent than personal protection.

A well placed round is a well placed round. 9mm hollow points center mass vs a .40, .357, .45 will yield similar results.

In using a 9mm you do have to be much more selective with your ammunition. Reviewing ballistics tests are a good place to start. Hence, my golden saber choice.

IF the adrenaline is pumping and all of that shooting range practice goes in the toilet and you are sending bullets all over the place,then I would agree that a larger caliber bullet will be much more beneficial.

Flip side on a carry weapon is that you usally have 15 9mm rounds, to about 7 45 rounds, and 12 .40 rounds.

If money were no object i would go with a .40, but 9m are much cheaper to practice with.

I choose to rely more on my skilz than my bullet size. Those of you that aren't cheap bastards like me can rely on both.
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Old 02-16-2010, 07:01 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by djp0623 View Post
I have to disagree. .40 and .45 are good duty weapons because they are the most versitile when it comes to penetration. 9mm has a tough time going through glass. Not good for duty weapon where this scenerio would be much more prevalent than personal protection.

A well placed round is a well placed round. 9mm hollow points center mass vs a .40, .357, .45 will yield similar results.

In using a 9mm you do have to be much more selective with your ammunition. Reviewing ballistics tests are a good place to start. Hence, my golden saber choice.

IF the adrenaline is pumping and all of that shooting range practice goes in the toilet and you are sending bullets all over the place,then I would agree that a larger caliber bullet will be much more beneficial.

Flip side on a carry weapon is that you usally have 15 9mm rounds, to about 7 45 rounds, and 12 .40 rounds.

If money were no object i would go with a .40, but 9m are much cheaper to practice with.

I choose to rely more on my skilz than my bullet size. Those of you that aren't cheap bastards like me can rely on both.
The average defensive gun fight consists of 3-4 rounds, those 15 rounds aren't necessary but are popular in the movies. Shot placement is great but shooting at the range isn't going to help that. When you are in a gun fight you are not standing still, you're moving around, the tunnel vision kicks in and you're shooting for center of mass. Two in the chest and one in the head is fun in the movies but it isn't reality. All I'm saying is that if you are going to carry something and you've already made the moral decision that you'll take a life to protect yours or someone else's why not give yourself the best odds? I hope those skilz don't let you down when you most need them.
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Old 02-16-2010, 07:45 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thymer View Post
The average defensive gun fight consists of 3-4 rounds, those 15 rounds aren't necessary but are popular in the movies. Shot placement is great but shooting at the range isn't going to help that. When you are in a gun fight you are not standing still, you're moving around, the tunnel vision kicks in and you're shooting for center of mass. Two in the chest and one in the head is fun in the movies but it isn't reality. All I'm saying is that if you are going to carry something and you've already made the moral decision that you'll take a life to protect yours or someone else's why not give yourself the best odds? I hope those skilz don't let you down when you most need them.
Good points, but the reason I (and probably others) prefer the 9mm round is because, for me, it is much easier to get second, third, fourth shots in the COM triangle. If I'm in a position where it is necessary to defend myself, I will continue shooting until the adversary is no longer a threat. That means keep shooting until the target is down and not moving. I can do that better with a lighter recoiling round.

Same reason I prefer low-recoil buck in a shotgun. A couple fewer pellets, but makes a huge difference in follow up shots.

MD sucks, btw, I shouldn't be allowed to respond to this thread.
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Old 02-16-2010, 07:57 PM   #28
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I have a Springfield XD9MM Sub-Compact with night sights, and SureFire X400 Light, also with a 15 round extended clip. I really don't like the feel of it honestly, i'm used to Beretta 9MM..

As far as .45 Ammo etc, a lot of police sway away from it as well as the Military due to exactly what was stated penetration value. You're responsible for your round, if one misses the target and goes into a wall...it will keep traveling, and could hit an innocent person. I stick to 9MM ammo for that reason.

You're lucky you have concealed carry...IL sucks!
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Old 02-16-2010, 08:12 PM   #29
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Im still 85% sure im going with the G26. However this weekend im Renting a few guns and will be deciding by the end of the trip. Most likely hit up Gunbroker.com and get one with the glock factory night sights since 80% of shootings occur at night.

As far as night sights go. Yea i can get TruGLO or the colored ones but ill end up spending an extra 125 for them. Factory glocks that come with them are only 30-40$ more and they all do the same thing. For me, i think this will be a great step towards me feeling safer around town; especially when i start having a family.
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Old 02-16-2010, 08:17 PM   #30
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Melonite coated Heinie Straight-8's...my night sights are just as durable as the Glock 30 they are attached to.
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Old 02-16-2010, 08:27 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by jtothawhat View Post
I have a Springfield XD9MM Sub-Compact with night sights, and SureFire X400 Light, also with a 15 round extended clip. I really don't like the feel of it honestly, i'm used to Beretta 9MM..

As far as .45 Ammo etc, a lot of police sway away from it as well as the Military due to exactly what was stated penetration value. You're responsible for your round, if one misses the target and goes into a wall...it will keep traveling, and could hit an innocent person. I stick to 9MM ammo for that reason.

You're lucky you have concealed carry...IL sucks!
9mm penetrates more, not less than the .45acp.
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Old 02-16-2010, 09:00 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by thymer View Post
9mm penetrates more, not less than the .45acp.
Do hollow-points decrease penetration?

What about a heavier bullet?

This is the last thing i want to have happen in a life threatening situation. Maybe i come out okay but some pregnant chick passerby gets hit with one of my strays. Absolutely what i do not want.
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Old 02-16-2010, 09:12 PM   #33
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Yes, I have my CWP and if you see me you can bet that I am carrying (I don't EVER leave home without it). I carry a tiny P32 but I have a big dick so that makes up for it...


Not my gun or my hand - just posted so you know what size the thing is. 8+1 rounds of FMJ 32 ACP:

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Old 02-16-2010, 09:19 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by rmcelwee View Post
Yes, I have my CWP and if you see me you can bet that I am carrying (I don't EVER leave home without it). I carry a tiny P32 but I have a big dick so that makes up for it...


Not my gun or my hand - just posted so you know what size the thing is. 8+1 rounds of FMJ 32 ACP:


How do you carry? Pocket pistol?
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Old 02-16-2010, 10:03 PM   #35
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Taken the class, no gun or permit. Waiting for my hands to heal so I can practice. Hurt them both at work in seperate incidents. Hopefully this spring.
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Old 02-16-2010, 10:21 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SKMetalworks View Post
Do hollow-points decrease penetration?

What about a heavier bullet?

This is the last thing i want to have happen in a life threatening situation. Maybe i come out okay but some pregnant chick passerby gets hit with one of my strays. Absolutely what i do not want.
Yes, hp rounds do penetrate less than regular ball ammo. Another plus though for the .45, it's a big slow moving round. It knocks the **** out of someone but won't go through hard targets. Don't worry about the passerby's, god will sort out the good ones!
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Old 02-16-2010, 10:39 PM   #37
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I have a CHL in Texas for almost 2 years now. I carry a Ruger SR9 (17+1) with Hydra-Shok rounds. I went with Hydra shock because the post in the center helps create drag so it won't penetrate your victim, err... I mean assaliant :-P

Plus since it won't go through, the Dr.'s will have to dig it out causing more damage then well who knows...
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Old 02-16-2010, 10:47 PM   #38
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I leave my miata unlock and it doesn't require a key to start. My '07 Honda quad is outside (under shelter) with the key in the ignition. I think I'm safe beyond a shadow of a doubt.

HOWEVER, I'm watching the Star Wars trilogy with my GF who has some how survived 27 years without seeing it, and it really really makes me wanna carry a big **** off pistol on my hip. And striped pants.
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Old 02-16-2010, 11:22 PM   #39
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Had a CWP when I was living in WA and carried a fair amount of the time. Here in CA it's about impossible to get a CWP unless you live wayyyy out in the sticks, or you're a politician/famous/rich.

I have a Kimber Compact Stainless in .45acp which was my carry gun.
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Old 02-16-2010, 11:32 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SKMetalworks View Post
How do you carry? Pocket pistol?
Yes, in a holster similar to this. I practice pulling the gun out (impossible to do in jeans if I am sitting) and firing three quick shots from the hip without aiming. I can hit a 2" group center mass in less than a second - a nice talent to have <G>. I also have a laser on the gun so I can do crazy stuff like shoot behind my back, laying on the ground under a car, etc and still hit the target. I was reading a forum one time and a cop on there said he had to shoot his weapon three times in his career. NONE were from a standing position.


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