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Old 10-29-2013, 08:43 PM   #1
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Default Attention Godless Commie!

Why have you never told me about this before?



Ok, so for all I know, these tinned sarmas from Tamek might be considered to be utter garbage where you are (eg: like comparing Velveeta to real cheese here in the west) but hot damn! I consume Greek-style dolmas rather frequently, and they're ok, but this is the first time I've ever tried real Turkish sarmas, and they are just absolutely delightful. Wonderfully bold taste, a little spice, and a nice aftertaste that lingers on the tongue despite repeated bathings in rum.

I am gravely disappointed that you have kept this secret from me for so long. What else have you withheld?
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Old 10-29-2013, 10:36 PM   #2
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What is in them?
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Old 10-29-2013, 10:42 PM   #3
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Im not sure about this.
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Old 10-29-2013, 11:00 PM   #4
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What is in them?
I have no idea. The ingredients list is in Turkish and French, and I haven't bothered typing it all into Google Translate. It seems to contain some combination of pickled vegetables, wrapped in a cabbage leaf and immersed in a bitter, oily sauce.



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Im not sure about this.
Oh, I am.
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Old 10-30-2013, 12:08 AM   #5
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Malzemeler: koyun bağırsak, sıçan eti, zeytin yağı, tuz ve karabiber, sahte lezzet #5

Yummy - translated in my awesome Turkish accent (which sounds more Russian/Cracker than anything) = Ingredients: Sheep intestines, rat meat, olive oil, salt and pepper, fake flavoring #5
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Old 10-30-2013, 12:13 AM   #6
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Old 10-30-2013, 07:34 AM   #7
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I thought Lahana Sarma would have a ground meat of some kind, but that sheep intestines and rat meat doesn't sound halal, haha.
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Old 10-30-2013, 09:57 AM   #8
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I thought Lahana Sarma would have a ground meat of some kind, but that sheep intestines and rat meat doesn't sound halal, haha.
Wikipedia to the rescue:
Zeytinyağlı dolma (dolma with olive oil) is the dolma made with vine leaves stuffed with a rice-spice mixture and cooked with olive oil. This type of dolma does not contain meat, is served cold and also referred to as sarma, which means "wrapping" in Turkish.
And I found the translated ingredients list for this specific tin, which is really rather simple:
Rice, Cabbage, Onion, Water, Sunflower Oil, Salt, Currant, Sugar, Spices, Citric Acid, Pine Kernel.
No butylated hydroxyanisole, no sodium benzoate, no polyoxyethylene sorbitan monopalmitate, and no red dye #5. So if this can survive being shipped across the ocean in a cargo container in the middle of summer, explain to me why we need those ingrediants in packaged food produced and consumed in the same country and transported more quickly and under less onerous conditions?
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Old 10-30-2013, 10:03 AM   #9
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explain to me why we need those ingrediants in packaged food
We don't. And I hate that they are thrust upon us not unlike some unwelcome phallus.
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Old 10-30-2013, 10:13 AM   #10
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Quote:
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Wikipedia to the rescue:No butylated hydroxyanisole, no sodium benzoate, no polyoxyethylene sorbitan monopalmitate, and no red dye #5. So if this can survive being shipped across the ocean in a cargo container in the middle of summer, explain to me why we need those ingrediants in packaged food produced and consumed in the same country and transported more quickly and under less onerous conditions?
Lawyers. Threats of lawsuits.
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Old 10-30-2013, 10:17 AM   #11
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BTW, I work with several Turks. We seem to use the local Turkish Society as a recruiting office for the electroforming department. Anyway, we also have a tradition of people bringing in treats for everyone. One of the Turks brings in something similar. He calls it "dolma" (or something like that). Cabbage and/or grape leaves wrapping rice with little bits of stuff in it. Quite spicy. He also brings in homemade Turkish delight, which is absolutely delicious.
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Old 10-30-2013, 12:32 PM   #12
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While in Turkey I ate Kofte (like a flat sausage shaped hamburger patty), and Kunefe almost daily. Not fond of dolma.

The best dessert was at the Gugglioglu (?) Balaklaverie (?) in Istanbul, which we went to on Hakan's advice.

Kunefe is a sweet cheese pastry. Fortunately I found a restaurant here that serves a decent one.

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Old 10-30-2013, 12:56 PM   #13
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Kofte and kunefe can be quite good. Kunefe is good with coffee.
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Old 10-30-2013, 05:22 PM   #14
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Turkish Kim Chi, or is it Chee, lol
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Old 11-11-2013, 02:36 PM   #15
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So, I just want to rant for a moment about food, pseudo-science, amateur journalism, and hysteria.


On the one hand, yes, I am absolutely certain that there are a large number of food additives and processing techniques which are, to some degree or another, harmful. There is laboratory and clinical evidence to support the assertion that certain chemicals common to the food industry show some positive correlation to the development of any number of ailments.

On the other hand, I am sick and tired of reading articles which employ bullshit scare tactics to try and convince me that things which are either genuinely benign or about which some controversy exists are harmful by the use of fallacious analogies, pseudo-science, or just downright lies.

For instance, I recently came across an article which made the following statements:

4. Propylene glycol, a.k.a antifreeze:
Antifreeze is used in cars, pills, cosmetics, deodorant, moisturizer…and food! It keeps your car from freezing over, your moisturizer moist, and your fat free cookie dough ice cream creamy, smooth and juicy. If it’s good enough for your SUV it’s good enough to eat, right? Right?? Right???

Found in: Cake mix, salad dressings, low fat ice creams and dog food.

5. Wood Pulp: Vanillin
Vanillin, which is a byproduct of the pulp industry, is used as an artificial vanilla flavor. Ester of wood rosin, which comes from pine stumps, is in citrus-flavored sodas to keep the citrus flavor evenly distributed through the can. And you thought you stopped eating paper when you gave up dropping acid.

Found in: Artificially flavored yogurt, baked goods, candy and sodas

6. Castoreum:
Castoreum comes out of a beaver’s behind – it’s extracted from their ---- glands — and is used to make artificial raspberry flavoring. Try not to think about that next time you order the diet raspberry tea.

Found in: Artificially raspberry flavored products such as cheap ice cream, Jell-O, candy, fruit flavored drinks, teas and yogurts.
Let's take these in order:

I'm supposed to be scared of propylene glycol because it's used as antifreeze in car radiators. Uhm, excuse me? DHMO (dihydrogen monoxide )is also used in car radiators, and yet I'm pretty sure that I'd be dead in a matter of days if I stopped consuming it. And spaking of industrial antifreeze, they use sodium chloride to melt ice on roadways on a massive scale. Proof of the harmfulness of this insidious chemical can be seen in that it causes STEEL to disintegrate, so you can imagine what this caustic chemical must do to the inside of your body? (As it turns out, it prevents our cell membranes from falling apart. We would literally disintegrate without it.)

Ooh, but it's got a big, scary name. Well, ****, the scientific name for Rum is CH3CH2OH, and that doesn't scare me away from pounding it down ever night.



Now, Wood Pulp: Vanillin. Admittedly, it sounds kind of funny to look at the side of a can of orange soda and read "ester of wood rosin", but.... so what? Am I supposed to believe that eating something which comes from a tree is harmful? Apples come from trees. So does maple syrup. What's wrong with those things?



Lastly, my favorite: Castoreum. The author is clearly playing the gross-out card on this one, by telling me that it "comes out of a beaver’s behind." Well, again, how does this make it bad? Honey comes out of a bee's behind. Toothpaste comes out of a Unicorn's behind. You don't see people marching around warning us about the deleterious effects of these products based on the fact that, when stated in a certain way, their origin is kind of gross at a 4th-grade level of humor.



So, let's have a measure of sanity here, folks. By all means, go on warning us about the dangers of mercury in tuna, keep me appraised of the latest clinical research linking aspartame to... whatever it's linked to. But for crying out loud, stop using scare tactics like saying that I need to watch out for products containing Canola oil because almost 90% of the canola oil produced in the US comes from genetically-modified crops. So? Am I supposed to just intuitively understand that consuming any GMO-derived food is functionally equivalent to eating cyanide? (Which, in addition to being insanely lethal, is all-natural and organic, by the way.)
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Old 11-11-2013, 03:10 PM   #16
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even my wife's tree hugging hippie organization isn't saying GMOs are bad, just that they should be identified.

so what IS propylene glycol?

I know what vanillin is.. it's the primary aromatic in vanilla beans. also is responsible for your delicious whiskey that was aged in wood barrels (a fine way to extract vanillin)

I know what ethanol is.. see above, mix with vanillin.

what is castoreum?

the important thing to realize is that products that resort to using synthetically produced ingredients usually omit other beneficial compounds. food is greater than the sum of its constituents.
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Old 11-11-2013, 04:37 PM   #17
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so what IS propylene glycol?
It's just another alcohol. C3H8O2, to be specific. And it is toxic in extremely high concentrations (as well as in low doses to certain animals, which is why cats and dogs die from drinking antifreeze), but in low doses it's totally harmless to humans. It's actually the primary ingredient (50-70% by volume) of the liquid consumed by electronic cigarettes, so a lot of folks are consuming 5+ milliliters of it per day in nearly pure form.


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what is castoreum?
Castoreum is the exudate from the castor sacs of the mature North American Beaver (Castor canadensis) and the European Beaver (Castor fiber). Within the zoological realm, castoreum is the yellowish secretion of the castor sac which is, in combination with the beaver's urine, used during scent marking of territory.

Both male and female beavers possess a pair of castor sacs and a pair of аnаl glands located in two cavities under the skin between the pelvis and the base of the tail. The castor sacs are not true glands (endocrine or exocrine) on a cellular level, hence references to these structures as preputial glands or castor glands are misnomers. Castor sacs are a type of scent gland.

Today, it is used as a tincture in some perfumes and as a food additive.
Castoreum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


So, basically, it's beaver-***-pus. Which sounds kind of gross when you put it that way. But then, isn't honey just bee-***-pus? And, hell, even the Paleo-******* say that bee honey is a "good" food.



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the important thing to realize is that products that resort to using synthetically produced ingredients usually omit other beneficial compounds.
Synthetically produced or overly-refined.

But there are a few things to bear in mind. One is that just because a certain product is called by a long and complex name does not mean that it is not completely natural.

Another is that not everything which is completely natural is healthy and good for you. (Hemlock, cyanide, etc.)

Another is that not everything which is "artificial" is harmful, or even inferior to a "natural" equivalent. We tend to think of GMOs as being the product of synthetic biology in a laboratory, but the fact is that selective-breeding has been going on for nearly as long as agriculture itself. And for every article which says "GMO is harmful!" there seems to be another, written in a rather less hysterical tone, which says "Actually, the paper that you are quoting seems to be based on rather dubious science, and was sponsored by so-and-so activist organization which is also opposed to vaccinations against disease as well as all use of fertilizers and pesticides."




TL;DR: Nothing in this world is black-and-white. Nothing is 100% good or 100% bad. People who claim otherwise, as a broad generalization, are either fools or liars.
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Old 11-11-2013, 06:02 PM   #18
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broad bad. agree. and isn't ethylene glycol the bad anti-freeze?

so the whole GMO debate that Monsanto doesn't want you to know or understand is that when they breed stuff to be resistant to a specific chemical so that they can blanket all farms with a single pesticide/herbicide/whatevertheydecide, eventually other organisms become resistant to it and become impossible to kill. There are cases of a few species that have become resistant to glyphosate (i.e. RoundUp) and now farmers can't use that product to kill those weeds anymore. It's similar to the overuse of antibiotics and antibiotic resistance.

Also there are implications that stem (durr) from (non food approved!) GMOs crosspollenating with non-GMOs and the impossibility of preventing that. Interesting note: one of the largest GMO-rice opponents is a small company named Anheuser Busch.
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Old 11-11-2013, 06:55 PM   #19
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broad bad. agree. and isn't ethylene glycol the bad anti-freeze?
Correct.

Propylene glycol is rather innocuous. We used to pack Fourex sheepskin condoms with about a quarter ounce each in the little blue container.

No reports of poisoned fellatio performers
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Old 11-11-2013, 08:54 PM   #20
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oh I see. Prophylactylene glanscol.
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