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Old 12-08-2006, 04:54 PM   #121
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******' Rican...I miss that loon.
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Old 12-08-2006, 04:55 PM   #122
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OK, now let's talk about the seaplane taking off in a current
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Old 12-08-2006, 04:55 PM   #123
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I call on this one.

But it *was* funny.




Quote:
Originally Posted by samnavy View Post
All right, we have a real world test.
I went in to my Airframes shop this morning and told a couple 2nd Class Petty Officers the I bet they couldn't erect a 100ft wide treadmill the entire length of the runway. They laughed and said "come back after lunch, sir."

<snip>

The three Mazda dealerships in town have been blacklisted.
The non-believers won't talk to me and are screaming about a conspiracy.
Popular Mechanics called and wanted to talk to the SeaBees about the runway they built, but they'd already disassembled it and had made a barbeque out of the engine they'd stolen.
I'm not allowed down in the Airframes shop anymore.

But at least i was right.
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Old 12-08-2006, 04:55 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by braineack View Post
you can save the flash chat convos, i re-read our steamy chats everynight before i go to bed.
Ah the steamy conversations where I bitched about not selling my very resonably priced Emanage? Makes me hot too!

Jay
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Old 12-08-2006, 04:56 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by bripab007 View Post
The good thing is we don't typically deal with magical conveyor belts in our discussion of turbocharging Miatas ;-)
Not unlike a rolling road dyno

Besides it doesn't have to be related.
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Old 12-08-2006, 04:58 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
If the wheels/bearings are capable of "freewheeling" about the aircraft, then the unpowered aircraft would remain stationary on the treadmill, relative to the fixed point of reference, as the wheels spin.

Your argument was otherwise convincing, but this is a contradiction.
Well, I assume that there is *some* friction in the bearings, and some rolling resistance in the tires. But you're right in that a totally frictionless wheel and hub would result in the aircraft remaining stationary.
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Old 12-08-2006, 05:03 PM   #127
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And as I realized that, I also realized that wheel speed isn't relevent. The comparative amount of friction is so low, it's not relevent either.

Perhaps a few of the other people who thought the plane would remain stationary will also understand that.



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But you're right in that a totally frictionless wheel and hub would result in the aircraft remaining stationary.
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Old 12-08-2006, 05:06 PM   #128
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what you guys need to do is google the "airplane belt teaser" go on some of the 1000page threads on it and have fun discussing this for 10 more years.
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Old 12-08-2006, 05:08 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samnavy View Post
All right, we have a real world test.
I went in to my Airframes shop this morning and told a couple 2nd Class Petty Officers the I bet they couldn't erect a 100ft wide treadmill the entire length of the runway. They laughed and said "come back after lunch, sir."
OMG! This is so good I actually burst out laughing, causing a couple of the other guys here in the shop to assume that I've just snapped and move to another bench. Never underestimate the SeaBees!
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Old 12-08-2006, 05:11 PM   #130
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Yeah, I realize that wheelspeed isn't relevant unless you don't have magical wheel bearings that can withstand such high speeds.

But, if there's one thing I learned, if you have magical conveyor belts, you have to have magical bearings...no ifs, ands or but(t)s.

Man, what I wouldn't give for a giant, remote-operated conveyor belt...underneath my house...with my house mounted on rollerblade wheels...then the house tied to a tree...then...

Okay, I'm done...for real...I promise...

I guess I keep writing because I'm trying to get the last word in before Philip swoops in here, gives some smart-*** comment and locks the thread

IBTL!!!! :gay:
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Old 12-08-2006, 05:13 PM   #131
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Right
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Old 12-08-2006, 05:37 PM   #132
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holy hell I leave for one day and this thread gets another 4 pages

I was kidding about the engines not running... lol
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Old 12-08-2006, 05:40 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bripab007 View Post
I guess I keep writing because I'm trying to get the last word in before Philip swoops in here, gives some smart-*** comment and locks the thread

IBTL!!!! :gay:
Nah you guys can make idiots of yourselves all day long for all I care. At least people are posting.
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Old 12-08-2006, 06:22 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip View Post
minor detail
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Old 12-08-2006, 08:34 PM   #135
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Hey guys, I went out a tried it with my Harrier, took off without a hitch.
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Old 12-08-2006, 09:47 PM   #136
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Sweet, we all agree.

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Old 12-09-2006, 03:12 PM   #137
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Glad we have all come to aggrement on this one...

Quote:
Originally Posted by olderguy View Post
OK, now let's talk about the seaplane taking off in a current
I'll take you up on this one Olderguy Are we talking about a magic current that increases in speed as the aircraft does, or is it just a normal very fast current?? The answer doesn't really matter, the results will be the same, just different magnitudes...

It will fly. The moving water will actually help the plane in the first part of the takeoff. The hardest part of a takeoff in a seaplane, from the airplanes perspective, is getting on step (planing out in boat speak or getting on top of the water in simple terms)

In pictures, from here:


to here:


Once the seaplane is on the step, very little of the float is actually touching the water (a foot on length or so) and it will accelerate to flying speed very quickly. The water moving the opposite direction to the floats will tend to slow the airplane, but it will also lift the float higher out of the water, thereby reducing drag. As airspeed increases, more and more of airplanes weight will be supported by the wing, reducing friction and allowing the plane to accelerate to flying speed.

I can illustrate with an example also. Cessna 172 seaplane, flaps to 20 degrees, full power will get airborne at just over 30 knots and fly in ground effect. With this treadmill example, at 30 knots for the seaplane the water will be moving at 60 knots. I could take the same airplane get it on step and let it accelerate to 60 knots on non moving water. Would not be a problem.

I will say though that being in a seaplane travelling across water that is moving at 60 knots would be quite a rough ride.....

cheers
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Old 12-09-2006, 03:15 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starsky View Post
I will say though that being in a seaplane travelling across water that is moving at 60 knots would be quite a rough ride.....
What about a 750 knot opposing current?!
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Old 12-09-2006, 03:19 PM   #139
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The aerodynamics of an airplane moving backwards at 750knots would bother me a little....
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Old 12-09-2006, 03:21 PM   #140
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It's a magical plane.
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