Can you pinch my awful fat folds?
 

Okay first of all, let's not turn this into a "aspartame kills you to death" thread. It seems to me that there is a correlation between diet soda consumption and overweight people. Obviously, diet soda is a zero cal drink, so in theory you could drink 2L of the stuff per day and never gain an ounce of fat (you might have some serious issues though).

The internet is flush with conflicting "evidence" on this topic. So, does your body's response to the taste cause a spike in sugar regulating chemical levels? Does this cause you to crave more carbs because your sugar levels drop too far due to the lack of glucose introduced by the diet soda?

Or is that all bullshit? Is the correlation simply that overweight people feel like they can drink lots of this stuff without feeling bad about it?

Discuss.

I would venture to guess that it is a mental thing. They feel bad about being fat, so they drink something they think will not contribute to the fat. Makes them feel better about drinking all that soda.

Calories all bullshit, its an improper measurement, based on an old and flawed understanding of the human metabolism.

If I were to pinpoint a source of fatness, I would say it was sugar and gluten.

Effects of artificial sweeteners on body w... [Acta Physiol Hung. 2010] - PubMed - NCBI
Artificial sweetener use and one-year weight change... [Prev Med. 1986] - PubMed - NCBI

"Rabble rabble rabble."

You've read conflicting internet opinions, so you turn to a bunch of non-experts on an internet message board to gather their opinions? ;)


I can say this with a high level of conviction: Diet soda alone does not make you fat.

This. You want to be fat? Eat things that your body converts to sugar and things loaded with carbs. Bread, soda, candy, certain fruits, certain veggies, any food that is labeled "diet" like healthey choice meals. Only 190 calories and 5 grams of fat! (1200 sodium, 60 carbs) Fat old women on treadmill-"I'm eating all these healthy choice meals like the t.v. says I should and I'm not getting any skinnier!!!!!"

ding ding ding.

FTB gets it.

Drink water, not soda.

Pass the salt, please.

Supposition:

There are no studies or proven theories that can completely explain the link between the things that go in your mouth and the fat in your ass.

Corrollary:

There is no single contirbutor to the human diet that is specifically responsible for your health. Humanity does not fully understand the synergistic relationships between the foods and/or chemicals we consume. And suggesting that one or some subset of these is directly responsible for any condition is somewhat ignorant or naive.

We can draw some conclusions about patterns that form in large populations of data samples, but with so much uncontrollable variance in any dietary study, very little is conclusive.

... btw apparently sugar doesn't make you hyper either.

Well now that you mention it, aspartame kills you to death.

Science hasn't answered it yet. Surely a bunch of guys who like to turbo their gay cars know!

You sound jealous Steve.

I have been known to knock down about 48 oz over the course of one day of Coca-Cola Classic, enhanced with a molasses and grain based liquid. I have six-pack abs (if I flex and you squint and the lighting is just right), can run a 5K in under 28 minutes, and can bench/deadlift/squat more than my body weight.


Therefore, drinking a bunch of Cuba Libres is the key to physical fitness.


:dealwithit:

So 3-4 years ago i had kidney stones.... at that time i was downing 5-6 cans of coke a day (maybe more).

So i stopped drinking coke and switched strictly to water.

2 months ago i had kidney stones again.. so fuck it.

Well all your guys anecdotal evidence has NOTHING on my anecdotal evidence!

I stopped drinking diet soda 2 years ago, and have since lost 40 lbs.

I also started working out and cooking for myself instead of eating frozen foods, which had a MUCH greater impact.

Sweet, that means I do too. :vash2:

wait...no that was last year....those are gone now.:facepalm:

2 years ago I started working out and gained 45 lb.

This is not science:

I did X and X didn't make me fat/dead/grow-a-third-arm, so therefore X must be ok!

examples:
See cuz what about all those dead kids and grandmas that DID all that stuff too?

Also what if you're holding yourself back from true potential by doing that stuff? Say you gave up coke, Scrappy. You might could have SEVEN pack abs.

maybe the "good enough status quo" is responsible for global shittiness and mediocrity. What if we're all just failed supergeniuses because we drink fucking soda pops.

OK, let's settle it then. Does Joe P. drink diet soda or only rum and wine? That should be pretty definitive, don't you think?

Oh, and pass the pepper please.

Fructose (in table sugar and HFCS), is a slow toxin.
(Though fiber in whole fruit temper its effects)

Long version (1:30+)

Summary (11 minutes)

It turns directly into fat, and its metabolic byproducts promote obesity, gout and hypertension.

Correlation = causation, especially with a data set of 1. After all,

A) On some Saturdays, I drink Appleton Estates with Coke in
B) I have sish-pack abs

That is a 100% correlation. You can't argue with that kind of science.


The laws of symmetry in human beauty tell me that seven would be an undesireable number for my pack of abs.


That said, when I was in (literal) fighting shape, I think I did have an 8-pack and there was no squinting or special lighting required. I don't think I drank any alcohol and I was down to about 4-6 oz of Coke per day at max.



I also biked about 30 miles and did like 9 hours of HIIT per week but I can't imagine that was in any way related.




In all seriousness, I'm with Y8s in that it's awfully nuanced and complicated. I would also argue that genetics must be a pretty big factor because I would be willing to bet that if you put me and an "endomorph" on the same diet and workout routine, I'd end up in better (aesthetic) shape.

LOL at eating and drinking for taste.

LOL at thinking eating healthy (or with specific training goals in mind) means you can't have enjoyable foods.

Killin some chicken, shrimp, and almonds right now with cottage cheese and broccoli on the side.

I can tell you that the body uses alcohol as a fuel. So while it may not directly make you fat, it does burn easily and that means all that other shit doesn't get burned. Krebs Cycle UP IN HURR.

At one time in my life I was borderline alcoholic. I ate very little, getting most of my sustenance from beer. And not anything fancy, just Labbatts Blue and Bud.

Serious question. Any one in this thread need help losing weight? I can help.

Source: Suffered bulging/compressed discs and multitude of sports injuries, gained weight, lost a shit ton that equals more than average Korean person.

Skim milk makes people fat. 1% Doesn't help either.

Without the fat, milk isn't much more than sugar water. When you have sugar without the fat, your body readily absorbs the sugar. Fat acts as a sort of sugar blocker.

As far as diet drinks go - they taste horrible to me - which means that I should not consume them - so I don't.

The sodium is the real killer - if you want to gain obscene quantities of weight quickly while being generally unhealthy, consume sodium - the easiest way to eat vast quantities of sodium (without knowing it) is to eat restaurant food. Sure, fast food is bad, but "slow food" restaurants can be particularly nasty. It's quite ridiculous how much salt a restaurant will put into their food to make it taste good.

It depends. For the average person that eats a lot of restaurant meals and prepackaged, processed foods, yes.

But once you actually clean up your diet and start eating whole foods, you can end up not getting enough salt. You need a certain amount.

Calories in should be less than calories burned. You WILL lose weight, guaranteed.

Do yourself a favor and workout at the same time and you should lose nothing but fat.

Your body will do funny things to you if you put it into starvation mode - you'll impair thyroid function and force your body to process your food differently. You'll also lack energy, and you'll be more likely to get sick. Your bowel movements will also become inconsistent - never underestimate how many calories are hidden inside a good healthy shit. In reality, your body wants to be fit, skinny, and healthy - all you gotta do is figure out what foods your individual and unique body has problems with.

I'm not saying that you wont lose weight if calories in < calories out, but there are healthier and certainly more sustainable ways to go about it.

Energy consumed vs. energy expended. That's all it comes down to.... well, kind of.

If you starve the body, your metabolism slows, as it assumes food is becoming scarce, and must conserve. The majority of "diet" pills are just caffeine of amphetamines. This bumps back the metabolism, and helps burn calories. I used to date a girl who used the "adderall and salad" diet. Take 5+ adderall, and eat one small salad every day. After a week or two, her body would make you drool. The only places she didn't loose weight was her c cups and that ass..... Anyway, it's not hard to manipulate the human body, but it is difficult to consistantly manipulate it over the long term.


Think about alcohol. It has intense effects for first time users, but over time the body develops a tolerance. You have to drink more and more to gain the same effect. So if you try to starve yourself or "all-of-it" or metabolism, your body will eventually get wise, and compensate. This is the center of the "yoyo diet" equation.


No matter what you do, if you are not physically active, you can not maintain a healthy weight without diet restriction, or chemical interference.


EDIT: I'm 6'3, 170lbs. :dealwithit:

The dumbest way to achieve weight loss.

So the smartest way is? Work out until you drop? Eat a super special diet? The Tug Toner?

Calories in, calories out works for EVERYONE, no special anything needed.

I've done 24 hour fasts for years, I've never entered any starvation mode.

x2

Works, but there are better, more efficient ways.

Yes, all of those things. That's definitely what I'm arguing for.

Reducing weight loss to CICO ignores everything important about nutrition (micronutrients and macronutrients) and the metabolism.

1500 calories of pasta, pizza, and ice cream does not equal 1500 calories of fruits, vegetables, and healthy proteins and fats when it comes to safe weight loss, body composition, and long-term health.

As I said before, approaching weight loss as nothing more than CICO is the dumbest way possible.*






*Okay, not really. It's better than using illegal drugs, or bulimia, or eating cotton balls. But not by much.

Be physically actve is number one, but if you want a simple soundbite:

Calories burned - Calories ingested = net caloric gain. A calorie is just a unit of energy. Technically, humans and food companies measure in kilo-calories, but it's the same concept. We're not talking about being healthy, just whether or not you are fat.



As I said before:

6'3, 170lbs, and I do real work for a living, while eating whatever the hell I want. Yesterday, I ate: 3 pancakes, 1/2 pineapple, 1/2 family sized bag of jolly rancher jelly beans. :dealwithit:

This explains everything:

Thank you for summarizing why CICO is the dumbest approach to weight loss.

I have a serious question about weight loss or more precisely burning fat because the number is not important to me just what the mirror shows. I am 5'11" and have a pretty broad build so my healthy weight with a good amount of muscle is around 170lbs which I was maintaining for a while. Then I got a desk job and over the course of 4 months without making dietary changes I went up to 205 lbs and maintain that now +/- 5lbs.

I started a regular workout routine that I stuck to for 3 months while also changing my diet to a respectable amount of calories with balanced meals. I did all the calculators and read a shit ton on how to eat like making 5 smaller meals instead of 3 bigger ones. My workout was fairly intense and after 3 months I lost exactly 0 pounds. I did lose some fat and gained muscle but not nearly as much as I would have expected for 3 months of strict diet and exercise.

Does anyone have any ideas on how I can accelerate the process or do I just have that body type that is going to require well over a year to get into perfect shape?

What does your diet look like? If you're still supplying it with a fair amount of carbs/sugars (which is highly possible even in a typical "balanced" diet), it's going to use that first for energy and your metabolism will never get very efficient at burning fat.

To accelerate that process, you need to be following a more ketogenic diet. This doesn't mean that you go all the way into full-blown ketosis, it just means that you restrict carbs enough that your body begins accessing body fat to be converted into fatty acids and ketones for energy. Eating a diet higher in (healthy) fats and much lower in carbs and sugars helps by forcing your body to turn on the fat->energy metabolic pathway.

tl;dr --

Cut grain-based carbs and white potatoes.
Cut sugars and artificial sweeteners.
Cut unhealthy fats (vegetable oils).
Add clean protein.
Add healthy fats (lard, butter, avacado, coconut).


It's worth mentioning, though, that many if not most people suffer what's commonly called a "carb flu" for a few days (headache, lethargy, "brain fog", etc.) as the body switches over to the new energy source.

calories in calories out!

I'm going to change my diet to this:

2000 calories of coke and donuts per day plus a daily multivitamin



or maybe I should do this:

800 calories of chicken + 800 calories of dark leafy greens + 400 calories of brightly colored starchy tubers

I wonder which one will lose me more weight?

Ketogenic diet. Lift weights. Really heavy weights.

I'll send you a PM with stuff to get you started.
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/i...CIXGsiNtnKvHpG

This x2

Good lord, it's like we are nutrition brothers.

This may be the issue but I am not entirely sure. My usual food intake would look like this:

Breakfast:
1 large glass of milk
2 slices of real whole wheat bread with whole grains
a thin layer of natural peanut butter on each slice (just peanuts lightly salted grinded into a peanut paste with nothing else)

Snack 1: banana/apple/peach (whichever I feel like taking that day)

Lunch:
2 slices of previous bread
thin layer of mustard on 1 slice
thin layer of real mayo on other slice
2-3 ounces of Boar's head meat usually plain low salt turkey or low salt chicken
2 full length pickle slices
1 piece of boar's head cheese (asiago or picante provolone usually)
2 tablespoons of sauerkraut

Snack 2:
small cup of low fat yogurt
real granola bar

Dinner:
Large spinach based salad and very little (2 talespoons max) of some various low fat dressing

The workout usually looked like this:
20 minutes of intense cardio (sustained 170-180 heart rate)
25 minutes of weight training (rotate area)

5-6 times a week.

Just a bit of background. I am currently working 50 hour weeks and taking 3 master's classes. My time is limited so legitimately cooking is hard to do.

EDIT: I also consistently drink at a minimum a gallon of water a day. Rarely I will get up to 2 gallons in a day.

I also did tend to eat out on Saturday due to socializing and to be honest I would usually eat something not so healthy like wings or a burger but that is one meal in the entire week.

Too much starch/grains.
Too little fat.
You must have fat and protein at every meal/snack.

Starch and sugar cause a blood sugar spike which the body then deposits into fat.

You need to turn into a fat burning monster:
What Does it Mean to Be Fat-Adapted? | Mark's Daily Apple

Cut the breads, add an egg or two. Really worked for me, and I don't exercise much.

Good on the natural peanut butter, but almond or cashew butter would be better. Hope the milk is whole milk. That toast is the killer.

No problem here. There's a good amount of sugar in fruit, but there's also an appropriate amount of fiber and lots of good nutrients.

Again, the bread's the killer. Mustard's fine. Most store-bought mayo isn't great (vegetable oils), but that's a relatively small thing. Meat's fine, pickle's fine, cheese is fine, sauerkraut is fine. It'd be awesome if it was true fermented sauerkraut, but that's another fairly small thing.

Yogurt should be full fat, unsweetened, active cultures. Greek yogurt would be best. If you want a bit of sweet with it, drizzle a little raw unpasteurized honey (not processed honey). What's in the granola bar? I'm betting it's not helping you.

No protein? No fat? The low-fat dressing isn't helping -- the issue isn't the total amount of fat, it's the type of fat. In this case, I'm 98% sure it's more processed vegetable oils. Extra virgin olive oil and balsamic vinegar would be way better.

Don't overdo the water. Drink when you are thirsty. Don't freak out over the color of your urine -- unless it's really dark and infrequent, the color can vary depending on your diet and nutrient levels.

You should be able to "cheat" once a week and still lose weight. But there are better options. Treat yourself and order a steak rather than a burger. Hell, a steak, a couple vegetables, and a salad isn't even a cheat.

Milk is sugar water. Replace it with water. Bread = fat.
Bananas are a big no-no for losing weight. Skip the fruit, replace with fat/protein.
Bread=fat. Lunch meat is horrible, replace it.
I'm noticing a trend. LOW FAT = (usually) high carb/high sugar. Skip the yogurt and granola bar. That's just carbs and sugar.
You should be using a FULL fat dressing.

Your diet is stereotypical of what people are told is "healthy". Fat =/= getting fat.
Too much cardio at the wrong heart level. You need to be doing interval training. It's 3x's more effective than solid state and you won't be wearing your knees/back out because it can be done in much less time. Lift weights for 45 minutes, focus on one muscle group a day or do split days. Heavy sets, none of this "light weight/more reps TONE UP bull shit" it's a myth.
You gotta cook. Seriously.
wings and burger (minus bun) is not a cheat. Hell, your normal meals are what I would consider a cheat.

Edit: I am obviously more strict than Mark. But that makes sense as I had a lot of weight to lose. You said you only wanted to lose 30lbs so you don't have to be all Adolf Hitler about it like I am, but it's up to you. You need to cut the carbs, add some fat/protein and change your work out routine.

:makeout:

Yup. I didn't even need to lose much weight at all, but I feel 200% better since I cut the grains and sugar back to basically zero. Stable energy levels all day.

Eggs are almost a perfect food. Don't screw around with egg whites, egg replacers, or any of that nonsense. Fry up some bacon, then cook the eggs in the bacon grease.

Well I will be taking this advice. I knew I was getting too little protein and that the bread probably was not the best idea but it was just convenient when I am in a time crunch. Avoiding low fat food is something I have not really heard so I learned something new with that.

I will change up my workout too and see how that works. I have heard so much back and forth over solid state cardio vs interval training that I can never sort out the facts. I might just try to get back into a set routine like insanity because I know it works and then I am not guessing.

Thanks for all the information. I guess I just have to make time to cook.

It's the right choice. There's tons and tons of good information on the internet for free.

I'm a big fan of Mark Sisson, Chris Kresser, and Robb Wolf.

A good place to start reading would be the Primal Blueprint 101.

Carbs are easy to eat and will keep you full for a while, but it's unfortunate how bad they are for you. Low fat is just a trend. It's a collection of ignorance that is exploited by diet food companies that they use to keep repeat customers. It's sad.

I hear you on the time thing. I work from 3pm to 12am, so I decided to start making my meals ahead of time.

I've lost 113lbs using interval training as part of my routine. Fact is, it works ;) and don't let some bro-science snob tell you that your overall fitness and running abilities will suffer. That is pure BULL SHIT. My mile times are consistently in the 7 minute range (6ft-220lbs) and I do cardio for maybe an hour a week tops (14-16 minutes on the treadmill after a lifting session- 4.5 incline, 2 minute jog, 2 minute run-repeat)
I used insanity to get me started and some what in shape before I started lifting heavy again. Insanity is AWESOME. I still go back and do it in spurts for a week.
I really, really, really wish I had asked people a few years ago about this stuff. Never, ever be afraid to ask questions.

You'll be getting a PM soon with a routine.

First, Ryan_G (and everyone else doing so), you are to be commended for making (not "finding") the time to incorporate fitness in your schedule. I'm a desk jockey that works long hours so I understand the challenge.

I will second Insanity. I definitely thought it was a worthwhile investment and, like VoM, I still go back and pop in one of the DVDs every now and then and punish myself. I will also say my cardio endurance was really improved versus steady state training. I used it to help get into shape for my first sprint mini-triathlon.

Not too long ago, it occured to me that, before Insanity and P90-X were ever invented or I had heard the acronym "HIIT," really fit guys were doing high intensity interval training. My personal experience is with Thai boxing training. You go at a high pace (hitting the heavy bag, the pads, an opponent, skipping rope, plyo, etc) for a few minutes, then rest. Then repeat.

I will also say that cooking your own food ahead of time is a big help with that "last bit of weight." I'm on board with most of Mark's critique to your diet as well.

I'll finish with, "Listen to people who have seen results using the methods they are recommending."

Sunflower / Pumpkin / Flax / Chia seeds are all awesome sources of protein. Add a handful of sunflower seeds to your salads

If you want to lose fat, its calories in vs. calories out. Period.

If you want to gain muscle, work out. Period.

Combine both and win at life.

Would you rather be fat and healthy, or skinny and not healthy. I'd rather not be gross, even if it took 10 years off my life.

That's a false dilemma -- you can't really be fat and healthy. Following a healthy diet and exercise plan will make you skinny and healthy (or, muscular and healthy, depending on your goals).

EDIT: I should add, I'm not particularly concerned with adding or subtracting years from my life. I could get hit by a bus tomorrow. But while I'm here, I want to feel good and look good. CICO won't get me there.

It was a thought experiment. People want to be thin. They don't really care how they get there, but they know they want to be thin.



My recommendation is to either work out, or have a "real" job, which involves physical labor. I work as a mechanic, and when it's not terrible out I take a 2 mile walk after work. I eat what I want, and sprinkle in some fruit to keep my immune system up.

I live by the "bus dilemma". If you don't live the life you want, it's not worth living.

Why are people asking and taking advice from a car forum?

Im way out of shape at the moment, the stresses of general life over the last 6 months have gotten my self discipline down.

However in the past I was 210lb and 8% body fat, 6'1'.
That was big enough, and fit enough for me.

I dont know why so many people have arguments about how to be fit.

Let me ask a question

List 5 things that make you fat and unhealthy.

Guess what? The opposite makes you skinny and PROBABLY healthy.

Replace fast carbs with slow carbs, eat lots of protein and fat.

30% protein, 40% carbs, 30% fat.

1.5g of protein per LB of healthy strong body weight that you are hoping to achieve.

Then go and lift big 4 days a week for an hour and do some cardio like ride to work or to the gym.

It just isnt complicated, its all Excuses vs Self Discipline, check my opening statement again, you will understand.

If anyone wants to start lifting big and getting fit google stronglifts, I know for a lot of noobies they are intimidated by showing up and not knowing what do do, so start with stronglifts and go from there.

Dann