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Old 12-30-2013, 08:59 AM   #21
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I'm not usually one to jump to suing someone, but in this case it sounds like a great option. I would do anything in my power to make this experience as miserable for the other driver as possible.
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Old 12-30-2013, 10:25 AM   #22
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Definitely talk to a personal injury attorney or two, preferably one that is a friend (or friend of a friend). Consultations are almost always free and they will be able to give you better guidance on your options.

I also think, "Let me consult with my attorney and then set up a time to call you back" would have been a useful response to the other insurance company's request for a statement.
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Old 12-30-2013, 12:33 PM   #23
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"that's heresy, and inadmissible in court."
Damn that separation of church and state!

IANAL, but i fail to see how that would be hearsay, as you were there when the ticket was issued. beyond that, you could just call the cop and have him testify that he wrote the ticket. Also, the ticket itself is on record. Granted, the guy you were talking to was probably just making it up and was hoping to intimidate you with some legal jargon.

sorry for the sidebar, but I find the finer points of legal proceedings to be a fascinating subject.


When my brother in law was hit by a driver who pulled out into traffic, the driver's insurance company tried to reduce their payout by claiming he was speeding, and that the fault was partially his. So I think that making bullshit up to reduce payouts is a standard tactic for some insurance agencies.
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Old 12-30-2013, 12:58 PM   #24
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This is fairly cut and dry, in my opinion...

They gave you fake info. You could make their lives pretty miserable on that fact alone. Flaunt the fact that you have that **** everywhere you can and as often as you can.
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Old 12-30-2013, 01:27 PM   #25
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As much as I can't stand lawyers and litigation, there are times to use them. I agree that if they are trying to pin it on you, and you have any injury, call a personal injury attorney and have them take it on contingency. That will get the other side off your back and you will get a better settlement than you ever would have otherwise. Once you have a litigator involved, you won't have to do much more as they will handle all calls... from that point on. Just remember to negotiate their fee into the final settlement amount.
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Old 12-30-2013, 09:03 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Davezorz View Post
Damn that separation of church and state!

IANAL, but i fail to see how that would be hearsay, as you were there when the ticket was issued. beyond that, you could just call the cop and have him testify that he wrote the ticket. Also, the ticket itself is on record. Granted, the guy you were talking to was probably just making it up and was hoping to intimidate you with some legal jargon.

sorry for the sidebar, but I find the finer points of legal proceedings to be a fascinating subject.


When my brother in law was hit by a driver who pulled out into traffic, the driver's insurance company tried to reduce their payout by claiming he was speeding, and that the fault was partially his. So I think that making bullshit up to reduce payouts is a standard tactic for some insurance agencies.
******* autocorrect. "Heresay".. And my lawyer confirmed that her getting a summons is inadmissible in court as heresay, but felt that having a witness who found her actions to be so egregious that they stopped and waited for the cop to be the deciding factor; because I had a police report that put her at the scene and involved in the collision, and an impartial witness said she caused the accident we were confident that we would prevail in court. In the absence of such evidence though, as in the OP's case, it may not be such a slam dunk.

ALWAYS get a police report. Always. Even for dumb ****. Otherwise every fact in the case is just your word against theirs.
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Old 12-30-2013, 09:08 PM   #27
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Old 12-30-2013, 10:37 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Pinky View Post
ALWAYS get a police report. Always. Even for dumb ****. Otherwise every fact in the case is just your word against theirs.
No doubt. I'm sure the OP knows this now. And, anyone else reading this thread should now understand the importance of this (if they did not already).

If you have to be "nice" to the other party when insisting on filing a police report, just tell them that you're sorry, but you trusted someone in the past and were burned and just can't take another chance. Tell them it's "nothing personal" and get a cop out to file a report.
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Old 12-31-2013, 04:10 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by 05pearl View Post
No doubt. I'm sure the OP knows this now. And, anyone else reading this thread should now understand the importance of this (if they did not already).

If you have to be "nice" to the other party when insisting on filing a police report, just tell them that you're sorry, but you trusted someone in the past and were burned and just can't take another chance. Tell them it's "nothing personal" and get a cop out to file a report.
I can't agree with this strongly enough now.
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Old 12-31-2013, 05:06 AM   #30
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Fun fact - I dunno how it is in your states, but here in CA the police won't even come out for small accidents/etc. Like literally, they refuse.

I know this because I myself called before and they were like " was the accident major? no? did you exchange insurance info? you did? then you should be set, thanks".

A buddy of mine had a guy hit him in a bad part of town, calls the cops they say they can't send anyone out. It got to the point of screaming at them at the top of his lungs saying that the other guy is un-insured, and about to run away with a hit-and-run for them to even consider sending a unit.

Despite this retardation though, I completely agree about the police report thing.
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Old 12-31-2013, 10:36 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Fun fact - I dunno how it is in your states, but here in CA the police won't even come out for small accidents/etc. Like literally, they refuse.
^ That's because they're too busy giving out tickets as there's not enough tax money being raised for their services in CA.
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Old 12-31-2013, 10:41 AM   #32
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here's how it works in VA:

insurance tells you to call cops.

cops tell you they don't work for insurance and won't write a report for anything under $2,500 in damages.

the only thing you can do is try to get the person to admit to fault on camera or in writing while stopped. or hope they hit you in the rear.

otherwise it's your word against theirs.


my story: i had a guy hit me and try to bribe me into not calling insurance and the police. he was literally waving $200 in my face. when the cop finally showed up, he was like: uh, i cant write up a report for this, see ya.

luckily he struck me from behind at a redlight and in VA it's always that person's fault for not controlling their car; even if I had slammed on my brakes. (his foot slipped off brake at a stoplight.)


2 cents: you can always take them to civil court.
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Old 12-31-2013, 11:13 AM   #33
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Quote:
Admissibility of Traffic Citations, Investigating Officer’s Conclusions, and Misdemeanor Traffic Convictions | Kring & Chung Attorneys LLP
I find this interesting, it seems to be that since the officer did not see the accident, then it is heresay. My logic was based on the assumption that the courts always took the word of the police officer as gospel.


I agree though, always get a police report. I think a corollary to this is always go to the hospital if you get hurt.
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Old 12-31-2013, 01:05 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Fun fact - I dunno how it is in your states, but here in CA the police won't even come out for small accidents/etc. Like literally, they refuse.
Ditto in TX.

Let's please use the correct term. "Hearsay." As in "witness is only saying what they heard, therefore unreliable."

How hurt are you? If you are hurt enough, an ambulance chaser will be all over your case. If not, they won't waste their time . . . which is also a clue that you shouldn't waste your time either. I truly hope you are not hurt enough that a lawyer will be interested.
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Old 12-31-2013, 01:25 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by hornetball View Post
Ditto in TX.

Let's please use the correct term. "Hearsay." As in "witness is only saying what they heard, therefore unreliable."

How hurt are you? If you are hurt enough, an ambulance chaser will be all over your case. If not, they won't waste their time . . . which is also a clue that you shouldn't waste your time either. I truly hope you are not hurt enough that a lawyer will be interested.
I'm not hurt enough, and my car isn't damaged enough to make it worth my time period, except that the other effing driver gave fake info.

If they would have gave real, legit info, I would have just walked away and fixed crap myself 'cause it wasn't worth my time.
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Old 12-31-2013, 03:13 PM   #36
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Blaen - Have you seen a doctor?

I have permanent, chronic back pain that I think was ultimately attributable to a bad car crash when I was younger. It may be worth talking to a doctor and an attorney just to have it on file in case symptoms develop or worsen a week or a month later.

Granted, if it was a relatively minor fender bender and the likelihood of major injury is negligible, that's a different story. My accident was major and ended up bending the frame on a big 1990s American sedan.
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Old 12-31-2013, 03:22 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Scrappy Jack View Post
Blaen - Have you seen a doctor?
Yeah, I went in to see one as soon as I could.

My worry was that I may have re-injured an old injury in the accident. Or it could just be the stress from the accident making it flare up even. Or it could be from the accident. I still don't know, the doctor just sent me in for physical therapy without talking much about it.

Quote:
I have permanent, chronic back pain that I think was ultimately attributable to a bad car crash when I was younger. It may be worth talking to a doctor and an attorney just to have it on file in case symptoms develop or worsen a week or a month later.

Granted, if it was a relatively minor fender bender and the likelihood of major injury is negligible, that's a different story. My accident was major and ended up bending the frame on a big 1990s American sedan.
Oh crap, I'm sorry to hear that man. What I was in was absolutely minor.
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Old 12-31-2013, 08:30 PM   #38
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+1 to this, although I'm not certain how much good a dash cam would have been in hindsight.
A dash cam would have proven that you were turning from the correct lane and where the car hit you from.
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Old 01-01-2014, 09:29 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by triple88a View Post
A dash cam would have proven that you were turning from the correct lane and where the car hit you from.
This. Living in the central downtown, where the one-way streets baffle the suburbanites routinely leading to near collisions, I've really been considering the purchase of one. Anybody have any recommendations?

Also, I should add, at the scene of any accident (even the most minor no-apparent damage bump) take a bunch of pictures right then and there. With smartphones everywhere there's no excuse, and pictures can clear up any he said/she said bullshit, protecting you from the other side claiming damage or injury that may not have happened, or them lying about the circumstances. Get them in the pictures as much as you can, establishing that they were there, involved and trotting around immediately after. There's a whole industry of parasite "Personal Injury" lawyers and plaintiffs out there, protect yourself.

Last edited by Pinky; 01-01-2014 at 09:30 AM. Reason: wow, I love commas and never ending sentences...
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Old 01-01-2014, 06:54 PM   #40
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Well, I'll definitely be getting some kind of dashcam now thanks to this thread.

And some serious safety stuff is going in the Miata.
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