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Old 06-02-2008, 01:50 PM   #21
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Vash, it sounds like you have a bone to pick... either against me or against the military in general. You didn't get to fight so "**** everybody else" who did. It doesn't sound like you've come to terms with anything. You're bitter and resentful of the military who "turned on you", and it shows through loud and clear with your comments and obvious spite.

And as for my knowledge of who joins the military... I think I can say without any fear of doubt that I'm an expert. My job allows me access to full files, ASVAB scores, background checks, etc... I've been on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan and I've served on 3 different Aircraft Carriers. I spent 3 months in Yuma doing a full Marine ground excersize and have attended an Air Force weapons school.

It is absolutely true that there are some that don't belong, but again, none of them who can't cut it make it to combat. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING NEW ABOUT GANGS IN THE MILITARY. That's been going on since the Roman days, so you can't use that arguement. At work every single day, I am surrounded my "good strong americans", and I can ensure you there is no loss of supply. Recruiting numbers are strong even in the face of the long war.

Vash, you're bitter. And you're letting your personal feelings about your unique situation run your mouth and you're wrong.
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Old 06-02-2008, 01:56 PM   #22
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Before some of you guys judge us, you should get off your asses and join us.
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Old 06-02-2008, 02:01 PM   #23
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No one knows but those that have been.
Samnavy, keep up the fight brother.
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Old 06-02-2008, 02:04 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by samnavy View Post

Vash, you're bitter. And you're letting your personal feelings about your unique situation run your mouth and you're wrong.
Maybe a little, but I'd like to think I'm not. I am bitter that I couldn't proceed with my goals, but I don't "hate" on others that got to. Like I said way before, I am VERY for the military and respect it as a whole. I just am amazed that someone like myself with a very high ASVAB score (tank mechanic) and that schooled the physical tests above and beyond, is turned down because of an old injury. Yet the kid next to me saying he's going to slit his wrists so he can go home gets a smack across the face from the drill sergeant and gets to stay.

I can see all the other sides of it. That they are just goofing off trying to have fun, maybe I would do the same in their shoes. I just know I took it all very seriously and wanted to follow up with force recon. Now I don't think much about it, but when the subject comes up I can remember all my old feelings about what happened. I do apologize....I don't mean to come off bitter about it.

Vash-
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Old 06-02-2008, 02:58 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Vashthestampede View Post
Maybe a little, but I'd like to think I'm not. I am bitter that I couldn't proceed with my goals, but I don't "hate" on others that got to. Like I said way before, I am VERY for the military and respect it as a whole. I just am amazed that someone like myself with a very high ASVAB score (tank mechanic) and that schooled the physical tests above and beyond, is turned down because of an old injury. Yet the kid next to me saying he's going to slit his wrists so he can go home gets a smack across the face from the drill sergeant and gets to stay.

I can see all the other sides of it. That they are just goofing off trying to have fun, maybe I would do the same in their shoes. I just know I took it all very seriously and wanted to follow up with force recon. Now I don't think much about it, but when the subject comes up I can remember all my old feelings about what happened. I do apologize....I don't mean to come off bitter about it.

Vash-

If makes you feel any better, anyone in the air force who "baker acts" them self, we boot them right out. (After proper counseling.)

Also we are force shaping, so anyone who isn't trying 100%, gets a pink slip.

I have seen some people slip through the cracks, but its our jobs as an NCO, and as Airmen to make sure that the right people are doing the right jobs. (And if someone slips through, to make sure they either leave, or meet the standard.) If they fail to meet the standard, they know where the door is.
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Old 06-02-2008, 05:30 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vashthestampede View Post
I can see all the other sides of it. That they are just goofing off trying to have fun, maybe I would do the same in their shoes. I just know I took it all very seriously and wanted to follow up with force recon. Now I don't think much about it, but when the subject comes up I can remember all my old feelings about what happened. I do apologize....I don't mean to come off bitter about it.

Vash-
Almost everyone takes it seriously in basic, especially at PI. Once you've put boots to ground in Iraq or Afghanistan, your outlook changes. You'll find ways to help yourself forget the danger, the family back home, the heat, the stress, the hours, etc. I'm glad you apologized, it speaks to your character.

As for you, Saml01, lighten up. You can be an armchair quarterback until the cows come home. The situation was obviously under control in the video, spotters everywhere. If you think they're doing such a bad job, how about you enlist and give them a hand? You could sit in your tent all day, all the better to conceal yourself from the snipers.

I think JayMX5 summed up my entire thoughts on this in one sentence..

One more question, Saml01; If the moon was spare ribs, would you eat it? I know I would. I'd ask for seconds, and then chase it down with a cold Budweiser.
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Old 06-02-2008, 05:58 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by samnavy View Post
Vash and Sam, sorry, but you have no idea what you're talking about.

If your knowledge of combat comes from Fox and Youtube and I can tell you for an absolute fact that your opinions about who serves today couldn't be more wrong. I can tell you from very up and close personal experience... guys who find ways to cope are the ones who come home alive and go on to lead productive lives when they get out. Guys who can't cope or don't take a few minutes a day to be human again are the ones who end up with PTSD or simply lose their minds or make a mistake and end up dead.

And while the military may occasionally take the dregs of society to fill it's ranks... there's nothing dreg about soldiers that come out of boot camp and make it to a platoon or tank or ship or aircaft. The training changes lives and turns undisciplined hoodlums into people who can think efficiently and operate under almost all circumstances. A front-line soldier today is a specialist, highly trained and an expert in many fields. Using the term "grunt" anymore really doen't apply. I see this every day. I live it every day. I command about 70 of these "fuckups" and it warms my heart every day I go to work knowing that they'll be there.

I will reiterate. Vash and Sam, you are 100% completely and absolutely wrong about those who make it into combat on the ground.

And as for the guy doing the IMPERSONATION in the YouTube video, you need to watch a little more real TV if you didn't get the joke:
http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/14862fadb0
I needed to be in your unit. The people I got out of basic were **** tards who didn't know what discipline meant. They would question even the simplest order, and would cause you a heartache whenever you needed them to do something. No, I wasn't in a combat arms MOS either, I was in Commo, where you are supposed to be mildly intelligent. I did get the "privilege" of working in Combat Arms units though. Cav, Armored, and Infantry...infantrymen were by far the smartest of the bunch, eager to learn, and kept their mouths shut unless they were asked something.
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Originally Posted by drewbroo View Post
I've been tasked at standing checkpoints over seas before... (Afghanistan) granted with a K9 unit, and we are searching for bombs. You do start finding interesting ways to entertain yourself. After searching 1000 smelly construction workers, in their jingle trucks, (Over the course of a 12 hour shift.) you will go nuts if you stand there like a robot all day. Sam/Vash you have to cut these people some slack, they are home away from their families, and working 6 days on 1 day off 12-14 hour shifts. And they don't get paid hourly.

If your so worried about your tax dollars, vote a libertarian in, and get all these useless government programs, and earmarks cut.
It's called "Being Human". You have to do something to help keep your sanity. Anyone who has been there knows this.

When I was in Iraq, I got ZERO days off. I was there for 8months. Did an 8hr shift in the Company TOC (radio) 2200-0600hrs. Then I took a COLD SHOWER, took a short nap, and drove the 1SG or XO from 0800 or 0900 till we got back, which was normally around 1600. We mostly went down "Electric Ave" to get generators, food, etc, then to BIAP for a hour or two, and then swing by the Green Zone on the way back. I normally got a short nap at BIAP, about 1 or 2 hrs at most, but when it is 120degrees and you don't have AC or shade, it's hard to sleep. If we got back early, I normally got picked up by a PLT LDR to drive for him in the evening patrol (1500-2000). If I had 4hrs of sleep, it was a GOOD day. Our HQ platoon got **** on the whole time I was there. Noone ever had a day off, and we got the "**** Burning Detail", so every 4th day I got to go and burn **** for a few hours after my radio watch and before I had to drive around Baghdad. All because our shitbrain PLT SGT was a line unit guy who had a stroke during the train up and got moved into HQ. He had the "HQ don't do ****" mentallity and he made sure we did every detail we could. I had to have another HQ NCO pull me away before I kicked his ***, cause I was sick of his ****. Guess who got wrote up by the 1SG and the CO for it...the PLT SGT. The 1SG/CO didn't do anything before cause they figured we were coping, until I snapped and about broke his neck. After that he wasn't in charge of anything, and we got a new PLT SGT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saml01 View Post
I dont know anything about combat, youre right. But if I was in that situation, where my life was on the line every day until I was back to home soil, I wouldnt be acting like a ******* idiot and I would probably pistol whip that guy for being one and putting everyone else in danger.

Its not funny any way you slice it.

You call this coping? This isnt coping, this is a bunch of guys who have nothing else to do and apparently dont care about their safety or fellow soldiers.

You think the army is gonna give them a pat on the back for acting like idiots and chalk it up to coping?



I didnt claim to know everything about the military, but from that video I can see these guys do not value their safety. While filming that stupid video a sniper could have killed all of them while they let their guard down. Dont tell me it isnt possible either, because it is.

Then we would hear the news the next morning say a bunch of soldiers were killed during an engagement with enemy troops. What we wont hear is that these same soldiers were trying to be comedians when the event occured.

Its not about being a hippy, its about caring what people do and what they represent.
If there was a sniper, or a VBIED (Vehicle Born IED), there isn't much you can do to prevent it. You can still follow proper procedures for a roadblock and not be a ******* uptight douche.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saml01 View Post
Considering what I do on a daily basis, I wouldnt mind.




I never said that the military recruits special ed kids, thats all Vash right there.

I simply disagree with the actions of these "soldiers".

I can understand finding creative ways to entertain yourself, but not in the field, where you are part of a team, where you need to be 100% all the time.

Maybe because I have never served, and god knows I wanted too, but I would not find it cute if that was happening around me.

----



I just want our troops home, this so called war has gone on long enough.
You don't have anything to base your opinion on. You haven't served in Iraq, or at all, yet you want to judge the actions of a few who wanted to make a funny when they risk their lives everyday.
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Old 06-02-2008, 06:01 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Vashthestampede View Post
I've been to MEPS as well as Parris Island. I signed my papers to serve my country cause that's what I wanted to do (and I'm a crazy ****). I saw FIRST HAND what kind of person is brought into the military. I was right beside many a kids that should not have been at all learning how to kill.

Sorry Sam, you can talk all you want about every subject under the sun like you do, but I'm not pulling anything out of my ***. This is just something I feel very strongly about. You can have your opinion, and I will keep mine. I have the utmost respect for really anyone that has the ***** to sign the papers for any branch of military. Especially in this day in age when our guys are getting killed left and right by women and children with bombs on them.

You can argue till next year with me sam, but I will not change my opinion. I'm not talking about the guys from Vietnam that still suffer from flashbacks. I'm talking about the baby boys we give guns to that finger their pussies instead of paying attention to whats going on around them. If I was there, I'd ******* crack all their jaws for ******* around instead of doing our job. Don't forget, idiots like that are not the kind you can rely on in a combat situation, that might mean your life.

And sam, I think you should do more research on the average soldier in TODAYS army/navy/air force/marines. YES, **** faced ***** end up with a stronger mind mentally and maybe can turn their once garbage life around. That is very true, I have no argument there. But more and more we have gang members joining solely for the purpose to bring their new-found knowledge back to the streets. That is sad. Its sad that we are running out of good, strong, Americans to join our military. I am obviously not speaking for everyone that joins, but this is a very true fact.

You can do you writeups on PayPal and freak out at noobs all you want. But your retaliation to what I said really holds no ground to anything I was talking about. And as far as not getting the joke, I don't watch alot of tv.

Vash-
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Old 06-02-2008, 06:02 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by kotomile View Post
I'm glad you apologized, it speaks to your character.

As for you, Saml01, lighten up. You can be an armchair quarterback until the cows come home. The situation was obviously under control in the video, spotters everywhere. If you think they're doing such a bad job, how about you enlist and give them a hand? You could sit in your tent all day, all the better to conceal yourself from the snipers.
OMG IM SORRRRRRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How could I have not considered the fact that these imbeciles let everyone around them know that "hey guys, we are gonna shoot a video of us acting stupid to put on youtube. Keep a look out for snipers OK".

Please forgive me man. I had no idea.

------------

But seriously, as I mentioned already, I wanted to enlist and I wasn't even born in this country and I want to fight for it.

I was actually hoping for a draft so I could go and fight, but nooooooooooooo damn public was against it.
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Old 06-02-2008, 06:09 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Vashthestampede View Post
Maybe a little, but I'd like to think I'm not. I am bitter that I couldn't proceed with my goals, but I don't "hate" on others that got to. Like I said way before, I am VERY for the military and respect it as a whole. I just am amazed that someone like myself with a very high ASVAB score (tank mechanic) and that schooled the physical tests above and beyond, is turned down because of an old injury. Yet the kid next to me saying he's going to slit his wrists so he can go home gets a smack across the face from the drill sergeant and gets to stay.
What score did you get? I got a 123.
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Old 06-02-2008, 06:15 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Saml01 View Post
OMG IM SORRRRRRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How could I have not considered the fact that these imbeciles let everyone around them know that "hey guys, we are gonna shoot a video of us acting stupid to put on youtube. Keep a look out for snipers OK".

Please forgive me man. I had no idea.

------------

But seriously, as I mentioned already, I wanted to enlist and I wasn't even born in this country and I want to fight for it.

I was actually hoping for a draft so I could go and fight, but nooooooooooooo damn public was against it.

I am sure everyone else there was all for the humor at the checkpoint, or it wouldn't have happened. It only takes one person to say, "I don't know if this is a good idea." to get the senior guy to kill the funny.

It's good to hear that people want to go and fight for our country.
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Old 06-02-2008, 06:16 PM   #32
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123? Which service? The Army scale tops out at 99.
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Old 06-02-2008, 06:23 PM   #33
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123? Which service? The Army scale tops out at 99.
When did that happen? It maxed out at 130 when I took it. It used to be 140 back in the Vietnam days. Had a guy in one unit who was in Vietnam (OLD ************) and his score was 138.
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Old 06-02-2008, 06:28 PM   #34
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The line scores are all triple digits, but the overall ends at 99. I got a 91. (and I'm proud to say my highest line score was in mechanical - 152)
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Old 06-02-2008, 06:35 PM   #35
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Whatever makes you happy...it goes to 130.
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Old 06-02-2008, 06:42 PM   #36
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USmilitary.com: "The person's AFQT score is a percentile score, based on the population of test-takers in the above study. The percentiles are based upon a 99 point scale with 99 being the highest."

http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/joini...svababcs_2.htm
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Old 06-02-2008, 06:44 PM   #37
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We all go by the GT score. Max is 130. I don't recall my info to log into PERSCOM, so I'll just go dig thru my records at home and find this other score thingy.
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Old 06-02-2008, 07:50 PM   #38
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you tards need to chill out.....he was doing a ******* SNL impersonation for chrissake. we've seen some far shittier videos come out of war. If something silly like that can keep them sane until they return home it's all cool with me. I'd rather you just thank them for their service then start giving them pointers on how you would do the job differently.

for the servicemen/women reading: "Thanks"
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Old 06-02-2008, 09:50 PM   #39
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There are two kinds of people in the military today.

#1: Got reeled in by a recruiter with the promise of free college, money, whatever their recruiter promised. Got called up to go to Iraq and pissed and bitched and tried to get out of it. Bitched the entire time they were deployed and did the bare minimum to avoid a court martial, then came home and expected a "hero's welcome".

#2: Found a recruiter instead of a recruiter finding them. Got called up to go to Iraq and knew it was bullshit, but realized that the recruitment benefits paid to them were due to the risk incurred. Went overseas, did their job, came back. When asked about the war, they confirm it was terrible and don't try to sensationalize it.

One of my best friends is #2. He served with a lot of guys who were #1. He's currently in Kuwait on a civilian contracting job and goes to Iraq every so often to run cable. He said there are a lot more #1s there now than there were when he did his tour, so the forces must really be scraping the bottom of the barrel now.
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Old 06-03-2008, 01:59 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vashthestampede View Post
This is just my opinion, but any place you gotta work is not the same as the military. Thats just a bit more responsibility than being the server guy, or the mechanic down at the garage. I mean, your supposed to be a soldier.

Subjects like this are touchy, but I can never back down on a military related issue. Everyone has different opinions and what not, but really, its supposed to be the military. Funny to some or not he is not showing our country's military any kind of professionalism at all.
You're right there is alot of differences between Civilian Jobs and the Military. The biggest is it is easier to fire someone in the Civilian world. I read you other post about your situation, and this is one of the exceptions to this rule though. A fuckup will last alot longer in the military than in the real world civilian job. My experience comes from the Army, so I'm sure it's on the more lenient side. Though, the AF is apparently significantly easier to get the boot from and on the other side of the spectrum.

I agree the standards should be high, and should be enforced to a high standard. But, regarding this video you have no idea of the entire situation.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by samnavy
I will reiterate. Vash and Sam, you are 100% completely and absolutely wrong about those who make it into combat on the ground.
+1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saml01
I didnt claim to know everything about the military, but from that video I can see these guys do not value their safety. While filming that stupid video a sniper could have killed all of them while they let their guard down. Dont tell me it isnt possible either, because it is.

Then we would hear the news the next morning say a bunch of soldiers were killed during an engagement with enemy troops. What we wont hear is that these same soldiers were trying to be comedians when the event occured.

Its not about being a hippy, its about caring what people do and what they represent.
You can't tell squat from the video. It is possible they could get killed from a sniper. It's also possible you'll get struck by lightning. You don't know the situation or anything close to what's going on over there. Until you've had boots on the ground, everything you know is second hand. Everyone has a different experience and the media doesn't always show the most balanced stories(big surprise!).

I know what they represent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saml01
I just want our troops home, this so called war has gone on long enough.
Well there is the root of your posts. You're really grasping if you are some how linking this video to International Foreign Policy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vash
You can argue till next year with me sam, but I will not change my opinion. I'm not talking about the guys from Vietnam that still suffer from flashbacks. I'm talking about the baby boys we give guns to that finger their pussies instead of paying attention to whats going on around them. If I was there, I'd ******* crack all their jaws for ******* around instead of doing our job. Don't forget, idiots like that are not the kind you can rely on in a combat situation, that might mean your life.

And sam, I think you should do more research on the average soldier in TODAYS army/navy/air force/marines. YES, **** faced ***** end up with a stronger mind mentally and maybe can turn their once garbage life around. That is very true, I have no argument there. But more and more we have gang members joining solely for the purpose to bring their new-found knowledge back to the streets. That is sad. Its sad that we are running out of good, strong, Americans to join our military. I am obviously not speaking for everyone that joins, but this is a very true fact.

You can do you writeups on PayPal and freak out at noobs all you want. But your retaliation to what I said really holds no ground to anything I was talking about. And as far as not getting the joke, I don't watch alot of tv.
If your experience doesn't extend past Basic you really have no experience to speak (other than how Basic is), anything else is conjecture on your part. You don't know till it happens to you.

Gang members (and other extremists like skinheads) have been entering the military for as long as there has been gangs, it's nothing new. Each branch does it's best to weed them out. It's done at all levels. And believe it or not, some of them find a new life in the service.

I see no retaliation from samnavy, you're turning it personal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vash
Maybe a little, but I'd like to think I'm not. I am bitter that I couldn't proceed with my goals, but I don't "hate" on others that got to. Like I said way before, I am VERY for the military and respect it as a whole. I just am amazed that someone like myself with a very high ASVAB score (tank mechanic) and that schooled the physical tests above and beyond, is turned down because of an old injury. Yet the kid next to me saying he's going to slit his wrists so he can go home gets a smack across the face from the drill sergeant and gets to stay.
Those kind of issues are addressed on a individual assessment. Not only did you have a previous injury that might have required a waiver (or might not have), but you also lied on your medical history. Some people get away with it, you didn't. The standards might have changed by now and you might even be able to enter another branch of service if you're still interested.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saml01
But seriously, as I mentioned already, I wanted to enlist and I wasn't even born in this country and I want to fight for it.

I was actually hoping for a draft so I could go and fight, but nooooooooooooo damn public was against it.
The Army takes non-citizens, as long as you speak a bit they will teach you. If you can type it I'm sure you can speak it reasonably well. So that's no reason, you don't want to is fine and I'm not judging.

Most professional soldiers do not want a draft. It's better to have one hard working soldier than 9 out of 10 fuckups that don't want to be there, especially in combat.


Quote:
Originally Posted by StankCheeze
One of my best friends is #2. He served with a lot of guys who were #1. He's currently in Kuwait on a civilian contracting job and goes to Iraq every so often to run cable. He said there are a lot more #1s there now than there were when he did his tour, so the forces must really be scraping the bottom of the barrel now.
It's not that simplistic.

Chris
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