Whatever happens with the environment and global warming, well, just give me sunny spring and autumn days so I can drop the top and holler at shawties.

sort of NWS, I guess, not really though. I opened it at work.
Photo Gallery: The Taz's External Organ - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International

/thread

It goes both ways. Galileo was put under house arrest for promoting the idea that the earth revolved around the sun. The heretic!

In the late 1970s, satellites started measuring solar irradiance. Prior to that, measurement was unreliable because of atmospheric influences (clouds shade the instrumentation and such). But after the readings from satellites started around 1978, the data became more consistent. See the divergence?

http://www.mps.mpg.de/images/projekt...te/climate.gif


Now then... 1996 (or 1998) was an outlier year due to el nino. you can't build a trend with one data point. look at the trend. While not exceeding avg temps of 1996 (or 1998), it slopes up. I have more graphs too:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...mperatures.png

that graph shows a cycle (right is older, left is newer) over a very long period. you can see the cyclic rise in temperature every 100k yrs or so. if you look closely at the peaks (steep right side slope around 130k, 245k, and 340k yrs ago), you can kinda see it rises roughly 10 degrees C over 10k years. or roughly 1C/1K or .1C/100Yr. and that is for the SHARP, STEEP spikes.

Now look at this (and this is not the hockey stick prediction, this is measured data):

the rise is not anything like that "fast spike of warming" at 1C/1000 yrs. It's TEN TIMES as fast. 1C/100 yrs.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ure_Record.png

How many here have studied Svensmark's theory of how the sun's heliosphere modulates low level cloud formation and thus global temperatures?

I have his book, and his theory fits the actual data better than the CO2 theory ... interestingly, except for the "hockey stick", but now that we know it doesn't exist, the fit is even better!

There is correlation between sunspot cycle time and the strength of the sun's heliosphere, explaining the mechanism of the centruies-long correlation between sunspot activity and the price of wheat (more sunspots = warmer weather = wheat becomes more plentiful and cheaper).

The 2 scientists I have the most respect for who have been cautioning about (not denying), the alarmists' claims, are Lindzen and Lomborg. Here is what they wrote:
Richard S. Lindzen: The Climate Science Isn't Settled - WSJ.com

Bjorn Lomborg: Ethiopia, Malnutrition and Climate Change - WSJ.com

And I will say this again:

CO2 caps will INCREASE energy expenditure, increasing profiteering, so arguing that "Big Oil" is funding the "deniers", doesn't hold water. The opposite is true! There is more money to be made by implementing CO2 caps!

And how did they "lose" the data? YOU DON'T FKN "LOSE" RAW DATA!!!!

I think The Vandals nailed it perfectly...


Children are lovely before they get ugly, and learn to do bad stuff.
Flowers are pretty before they get shitty, and rot and turn to dust
I heard that life is a wheel and you can't make it stop
If you try it'll flatten your head
It's a circle of shit we're in the middle of it
but soon we'll all be dead
Like everybody else that ever lived before, the things you make fall to the floor
and nobody knows how hard you tried, it's been that way since the start of time-

There was a caveman that did some amazing things
but nobody here gives a fuck
And in a thousand years they'll feel the same
towards all the things you've done

So don't worry what might give you cancer-
or stay up nights just wanting answers
Its just a crap shoot, but it's mostly crap
things start off they're so terrific
they'll fuck up it's scientific
Entropy, uncertainty won't yield to you

Love at first sight on a beautiful night and a feeling so divine
gets sucked down the toilet cuz something will spoil it
with the good times left behind you
Don't try to figure out who's at fault
powerful forces abound
like a twig on a river in the universe
tomorrow you'll probably drown

So don't worry if it is a tumor -
all this will be over sooner
Its just a crap shoot, but it's mostly crap
things start off they're so terrific
they'll fuck up it's scientific
Entropy, uncertainty won't yield to you or you

And all the things that matter most
disappear, here's a toast
to erosion and corrosion, Altimzers and pain
Don't try to figure out who's at fault
there's powerful forces at play
and if you lose your legs and have to beg
it's really all the same

Jason, you still haven't provided a link showing that the data was removed or lost or whatever. I tried googling but couldn't find the specific mention of it. Please show me.

And the "hockey stick" hasn't been 100% disproven. There were some disputes over a small fraction of the MANY reconstructions that form hockey stick shapes. These studies use coral, tree rings, stalagmites, boreholes, etc...

In any case, all of a bunch of studies done in different ways show the same steep increase over the last century.

Great lyrics. I am not familiar with The Vandals but am suddenly motivated to check them out.

Theory works great...in theory. Who's to say what is correct and was is not? I mean, advances in technology, time that we have been keeping track of numbers, whose hands are in what pockest and discoveries of random variables not known before all add up to what? If climate cycles can be seen in high frequencies, like fronts moving across a given area and we can track such cycles as el nino and such cycles as ice ages, how are to know there aren't many other climatic cycles that are yet to be observed? We as humans have developed out own way of collecting and interpreting the data that we create. Just like how some scientests assume that water has to be the basis for life and that only planets with water can support life. Just because that is all we know doesn't mean that is how it is.....theory. There is no way in hell to make such a blanket statement given how large the universe is.

I guess what I am saying is, we as humans don't know everything.

Tex- Just YouTube it and listen to the song. If you like any kind of fast-tempo music, you should get a kick out of them.

climategate raw data lost - Google Search

AFAIK the hockey stick was created by using a different set of data to create the upturn. And an uptick at the end can be done by tweaking the polynomial fit functions (I'm well aware of this problem because I've done a lot of curve fitting to noisy data) .

Here is a discussion of the code to tweak the results into what was desired:

Cube Antics | The Proof Behind the CRU Climategate Debacle: Because Computers Do Lie When Humans Tell Them To

Well, you came into this world naked, screaming and covered in blood
who was there to wipe you off and give you your first hug?
And it took a couple years to figure out how to not shit in your pants
but someone was there to clean you up and powder off your rash
It's been them from the start, the ones you tortured and broke their hearts
the two that you hate- the two that you blame- the very same ones that
gave you your name
Remember the time you were five and you lied about who broke your lamp?
Who were the ones that sat you down and gave you a second chance?
It's been them from the start, the ones you tortured and broke their hearts
the two that you hate- the two that you blame- the very same ones that
gave you your name
[Chorus:]
Go home to Mom and Dad and say you're sorry,
It's the least that you can do, after all you've put them through.
Oh, come on.
Beg Mom and Dad's forgiveness, they deserve it.
Even if you don't mean it, make them believe you that it's true.
And when they offered you up all that great advise,
you just screamed Fuck you, both- and let me live my life!
I'm gonna go out drinking with my friends have unprotected sex,
pierce my nose and get a tattoo of a dragon on my neck!
[Chorus:]
Call Mom and Dad and finally say you're sorry,
It's the least that you can do, after all you've put them through.
Oh, come on.
Beg Mom and Dad's forgiveness, they deserve it.
Even if you don't mean it, make them believe you that it's true.
Cuz now your 35 and working in a warehouse cuz you spent your college money on cocaine.
And the shame of your existence is ever so persistent cuz you know your parents tried
and you're to blame- you're to blame, cuz
It's been the from the start, the ones you tortured and broke their hearts
the two that you hate- the two that you blame- the very same ones that
gave you your name
[Chorus:]
Go home to Mom and Dad and say your sorry,
It's the least that you can do, after all you've put them through.
Oh, come on.
Beg Mom and Dad's forgiveness, they deserve it.
Even if you don't mean it, make them believe you that it's true.

anarchy burger and pizza train are winners, youve probably heard oi to the world. they were my first 'concert' ever.

Shoot me a PM and I will give you a link to my ftp server with most of their music.

Read the first review by Lubos Motl:

Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: Red Hot Lies: How Global Warming Alarmists Use Threats, Fraud, and Deception to Keep You Misinformed

I've been listening to Look What I almost Stepped In for the past few days while working in the garage. Love.


"I've watched you grow for all these years and shamefully admit...."

Oh that song is so wrong.....

reminded me of 'into the night' by Benny Mardones

She's just sixteen years old
Leave her alone, they said
Separated by fools
Who don't know what love is yet
But I want you to know

If I could fly, I'd pick you up
I'd take you into the night
And show you a love
Like you've never seen, ever seen

It's like having a dream
Where nobody has a heart
It's like having it all
And watching it fall apart
And I would wait til the end of time for you
And do it again, it's true
I can't measure my love
There's nothing to compare it to
But I want you to know

If I could fly, I'd pick you up
I'd take you into the night
And show you a love, oh
If I could fly, I'd pick you up
I'd take you into the night
And show you a love
Like you've never seen, ever seen

If I could fly, I'd pick you up
I'd take you into the night
And show you a love, oh
If I could fly, I'd pick you up
And take you into the night
If I could fly, I'd pick you up
Oh, into the night, oh
I'd pick you up

My Dog Ate the Raw Data:

The Dog Ate Global Warming | Patrick J. Michaels | Cato Institute: Commentary

"raw data lost"... yes but only at CRU. the original sources still have the full raw data set. you can download and reproduce whatever you want.

CRU wasn't the only place making graphs. that is one model. and everything else (all the other models) still agree with the IPCC report.

incidentally, the lead singer for the vandals hosts a radio show on indie 103's internet radio.

but that's thread jack.

Got a link.

P.S. Serious Thread got jacked long ago, mostly when Scott started getting silly.

threadjacking is fun! Sry guys.

Continue with your regularly scheduled programming.

You have no idea... Let's just say back in the day I spent a lot of time in several mosh pits on several occasions :giggle:

Thanks for the YT link. Good stuff. Sorry, thread jack over.

This explains all of the temperature increases:



Chris

looks like al gore is backing out a speach on global warning wonder why:laugh:Congress.org - : Letter to Rep. Bobby Scott (D-Virginia): Al Gore cancels lecture during COP15. -CLIMATE CHANGE A FARCE.

this video is win:

Is anyone else embarassed that we use coal?

We've had the technology to make power from atoms. ATOMS. We can make energy like the stars do...

And we burn old plants.

It's disgusting.

Our nuclear power plants haven't advanced in 50 years, instead we work on trying to find ways to make burning carbon not produce carbon emissions.

Government regulations are the reason we don't use more nukular.

Oh, I know. Regulations are also why we have a failed auto industry, a gone steel industry, and a disappearing everything else industry.

Of course, this will all be less important when hyperinflation kicks in...

Hyperinflation (money completely dies), is a lot less likely than mass inflation (15-50% per year), plus selective default (gov't reneges on some promised entitlements, such as moving SS retirement age to 80, or reducing Medicare benefits).

When money dies, so does the power of the financial elite, and they don't want that.

When the Federal Gov't checks begin to bounce, people will step away from it and rely on more local governments. A social revolution is brewing.

The definition I see of hyperinflation is "exceeding 100% in a three year span." That would take 26% per year...

Besides, as money becomes a worse "investment" more people will move to gold and silver... if that catches on, we just need to reach a tipping point before money goes from X inflation to useless. Doesn't take long once it begins, and it's certainly not uncommon...

http://goldnews.bullionvault.com/fil...rinflation.gif

If you want to look at how healthy fiat money is, look at how strong the alternitive is...

http://goldprice.org/charts/gold-pri...27165824509983

Not to nitpick, but that graph should have a logarithmic Y axis.

Well, I think the purpose of the graph is to show how the money goes from money to worthless in a rapid way. I think the 1:1 scale suits that purpose well.

Indie 103.1

also itunes radio.

this thread is five pages long. 3/5 of it is nonsense.

I've been quoting that for years.

Looks like the warmists were trying to get funding from Big Oil:

Climategate: CRU looks to “big oil” for support Watts Up With That?

that would have been awesome.

except they probably later realized that the "certain conditions" were something like "strive to make people believe there is no consensus"

A documentary I finally got around to looking up:







Another piece of one:



This is a really interesting finding:The sun moves climate change

Here's about a hundred more articles and resources that have been gathered regarding the topic. Many of them are quite good:Global Warming - The Schnitt Show

Here's a good summary of the "decline" which was "hidden", with comparisons of graphs with and without the fudging:

American Thinker: Understanding Climategate's Hidden Decline

Oil production is somewhere around 30,000,000 barrels a day.

If you think that a daily consumptions/production of oil near this number isn't going to hurt anything/affect then you aren't realizing exactly how much stored energy we're releasing. Billions of years of ancient biomass. Also, I don't believe the markets are as intelligent as some would assume so I do not mind some minor government correctional procedures. In fact current markets have been twisted to the point where short term gain outweighs long term stability.

In the end we'll have to go to clean sources anyways, regardless of their effect now. I think it makes sense for some long term energy planning on the part of the United States considering we've had a shit energy policy (if any) for the last 100 years. People don't consider the huge amounts of jobs and research that are going into the rising "green industry".

And I know Jason you'll just say all of our energy problems and market's being organized towards short term only are our government's fault anyways.

Very good read

Biggest issue here was politics and science getting mixed up. They are terrible bedfellows.

They had incentives to hide certain bits of data because it would be difficult to explain to laymen that the little ice age was caused by volcanic and solar variations. The increase in co2 levels and consequently global surface temperatures post industrial revolution was unprecedented.

+ peer review is a necessary but not complete reason to credit or discredit scientific research.

Main point is that it would be a very bad idea to pass sweeping legislation based on the worst case predictions of the alarmists.

Put that into perspective.

The SUN applies something 300 times the energy into the atmosphere, than the worldwide energy consumption

Which is reflected or absorbed.

The co2 released stays in the atmosphere and absorbs more heat. I agree with you on some of the idea that radical legislation could be detrimental - but if done correctly it could funnel money into research and development and consequently create jobs, ect. They're not trying to strong arm people into cutting greenhouses realistically. More like apply incentives to change.

energy use isn't the issue

energy storage is. trapping 300 times the energy in the atmosphere is the issue.

Correct.

I was answering naarleven's point that there's a shitload of fossil fuel being burned - it's tiny compared to the sun's energy.