Climategate!
 

This has got to be the BIGGEST science scandal in history, but the Mainstream media is mum.

A whistleblower hacked and released thousands of emails between the biggest names in global warming, discussing HOW to hide the recent cooling, HOW to massage the data to show the infamous hockey stick, etc.

Incredible!

Climategate: “Men behaving badly” – a short summary for laymen Watts Up With That?

And now Fox news has an article showing the use of Environmental religion as a means of ceding power from the national governments to the supranational government (UN):

Document Reveals U.N.'s Goal of Becoming Rule-Maker in Global Environmental Talks - United Nations - FOXNews.com

Pinch your nose that it’s on Fox, but browse the supporting PDFs

The actual UN plan is here
http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/...epstrategy.pdf
http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/...IISDreport.pdf

One of my favorite bloggers has been into this for a couple weeks now.finem respice | reflections on consequences (intended and otherwise)

I found this all very interesting. The media's been giving it some coverage, I was watching last night after having read some articles about it during the day.

Some congressmen, as I saw last night, are now treating climate change as an open-and-shut case, figuring that this new revelation is proof that it's 100% scam. We're still losing a lot of ice at the poles, if this is all a scam then...

You needed these emails to tell you global warming is a farce and a way for Al Gore to make some major bank?

However, I'm pretty sure there has been global warming, oh sorry "climate change", since the last Last Glacial Maximum some 20,000 ago. Touche.

Its a natural cycle.... I do however agree that we all as a worldwide collection of people need to continue to innovate energy efficiency in everything.

Oh shit, well back to puking coal-plant pollution back into the atmosphere.

Unfortunately, we never stopped.


<--In for nuclear plants as quick as we can build them, but the envirowacks won't let us.

I read a great article on nuclear reactors in SCIENCE within the last year. There is some really high efficiency and uber safe stuff that is cutting edge. Hopefully the stigma will let go so they start building them.

+1. Ditto on the newer cleaner coal tech too.

The problem with this deception is not just that the scientists started fabricating lies to get on the gravy train (Phil Jones got something like $10M in grants in 7 years), but the consequences were very far reaching, steering billions in tax money and increasing world energy costs by the trillions for everyone.

The argument that Big Business is sowing anti global warming propanda doesn't hold water.

For every corporation that will lose money due to CO2 taxation and reduced fossil fuel usage, there is another that will make even more money from CO2 taxation and increased usage of non-CO2 emitting sources of energy.

The simple fact is, reducing CO2 emissions will INCREASE the total expenditure on energy. Thus, there is MORE money to be made by shifting energy sources to non-CO2 emitting sources, by simple virtue of the fact that the money stream gets bigger.

The Goldman Sachs / Cap and Trade faction will make MORE than the Oil industry will lose. Besides, the Oil industry has probably already invested in renewable energy, such as windmill and solar technology... which would probably make more money for them than oil.

+1

Why are there stupid people in the world? To give others hope.

I for one would like to see more nuclear power being generated in the US. Illinois is kicking all your butts so far. :giggle:
/threadjack

General Electric has more to gain than most when it comes to "green" tech things to sell and they just happen to own one of the biggest green cheerleaders around - NBC Television/MSNBC/Universal Pictures.

Short article about it-
HuffPo Decries General Electric's Control of NBC, MSNBC ...But Only On Some Topics | NewsBusters.org

If you need another reason to hate them, they are the same bastards that unleashed the Fast and Furious trilogy on the world.

it's awesome when you can get in bed with the gov't

I will continue to support nuclear energy if we can agree that Bush is gone and that we may once again pronounce "nuclear" correctly. "Nukuler" and "Nookalier" are over.

jersey has a bunch of Nuclear powerplants too, only problem is 1 of the is really old and literaly starting to fall apart, but the GOV won't give the money to fix it

too busy spending it on <insert BS here>

The root of the problem is allowing gov't the power to write economic interventionist laws labelled "regulations". This means that the laws will be written as per the highest bidder. If instead the free market were left alone, all these big corporations would actually have to compete on a level playing field, selling products that consumers want to buy, just like all the little guys.

re: fixing old power plants - gov't shouldn't pay for it (that would mean the taxpayer pays for it) - the owners should pay for fixing it, and the investment should have to compete with other investments. The problem is the uber expensive gov't regulations on nuclear power.

agreed

Yeah my in-laws live in Coal City, within the red fallout zone (fast death) of one nuke plant and in the orange zones (slower death) of two others. One of their neighbors works for Excelon doing basically Homer Simpson's job. They have reasonably low property tax rates and still have really nice public schools because there's so much tax revenue form the nuke companies.

I don't often praise France but we could really take a page from them on power generation. They have nuclear plants out the ass and EDF is recognized as a world leader in nuclear power technology. Our older nuclear plants probably aren't worth fixing, certainly as a taxpayer I wouldn't want the govt paying for that. Just allow the energy companies to pay the Frogs to come in and build some of their modern reactors that are more efficient and safer than what we've already got. We would have all that capability ourselves, if not for that little incident at Three Mile Island putting the fear of nuclear meltdown into every American household. But as it is, we haven't approved a new nuclear plant in decades. Power reactors have long service lifetimes but they are not infinite, and we need to get started building new ones before our shit gets much older and more decrepit than it already is.

3 Mile Island proved that the engineers designed the fail-safe systems right. No disaster despite the operators' best efforts! The media made it out to be a failure.

Ive been following this as well. Just a little more truth seeping out from the cracks is all. Cant hold it back forever.

Looks like the fuckers deleted the raw data.
That is even worse than fudging it. I would call it a crime against humanity!

Besides if global warming is not real - we can agree that fossil fuels are a finite resource and will eventually run out, it makes some logical long term sense for some diversification of energy sources.

naarleven,

As fossil fuels are depleted, their price will gradually go up. As the price goes up, alternate sources of energy will become price competitive, and investment will follow. Problem solved. (BTW the sharp rise in oil prices in 2008 was due to manipulation by the likes of Goldman Sachs, which can leverage money so much because of the government licensed monopoly known as the Federal Reserve.. and they can manipulate it for only so long... witness the sharp drop thereafter)

In the 70s, there was a political upheaval in Congo that caused the price of Cobalt to rocket. The speaker manufacturers were dependent on it for the alloy Alnico to make magnets. They scrambled to develop ferrite and neodynium based magnets, which are used til today.

A few years ago I was witness to a sharp shortage of epoxy for making semiconductors due a fire in one of the 2 factories in the world that made it. And a few years before that there was a serious shortage of parts called MOSFETs. We thought at work we were gonna have serious issues. We were able to work around the problems with hardly any disruption in our production output; alternate suppliers simply stepped in and got some new business.

i go away for a week and come back to this?

climate change contrarians are cherry picking phrases out of context from the documents and twisting them to their own agendas.

nowhere in the emails have they said anything about climate change being a hoax or that ALL data from EVERY sicentist involved is falsified. it's a couple guys and "internal office banter".

anyone with a job has at some point in time said "this XYZ has a problem with ABC and it sucks, but we will be selling it anyway". nevermind the fact that later you fixed the ABC and everything was fine.

presuming that some candid conversations about a mildly controversial issue are going to bring the whole climate change issue to its knees is far fetched.

and also, nuclear would be great if we could store the waste in your back yard.

Okay, so lets nuke iran, iraq, and anything that starts with i-r-a and then use the desolate wastelands, as a desolate wasteland.

Dr. Peter Venkman: Alice, I'm going to ask you a couple of standard questions, okay? Have you or any of your family been diagnosed schizophrenic? Mentally incompetant?
Librarian Alice: My uncle thought he was Saint Jerome.
Dr. Peter Venkman: I'd call that a big yes. Uh, are you habitually using drugs? Stimulants? Alcohol?
Librarian Alice: No.
Dr. Peter Venkman: No, no. Just asking. Are you, Alice, menstruating right now?
Library Administrator: What's has that got to do with it?
Dr. Peter Venkman: Back off, man. I'm a scientist.

Dr. Peter Venkman: This is preposterous. I demand an explanation.
Dean Yeager: This university will no longer continue any funding for any of your group's activities.
Dr. Peter Venkman: But the kids love us!
Dean Yeager: Doctor... Venkman. The purpose of science is to serve mankind. You seem to regard science as some kind of dodge... or hustle. Your theories are the worst kind of popular tripe, your methods are sloppy, and your conclusions are highly questionable! You are a poor scientist, Dr. Venkman!
Dr. Peter Venkman: I see.

In this thread you may deny the Holocaust.

y8s,

jeezus the emails are pretty clear in that the hockey stick bandied about was falsified. The hockey stick that was used by the IPCC to make recommendations. THEY EVEN DELETED THE GODDAM RAW DATA! Why are they hiding the raw data? How are we gonna know now if there even really was any warming (Oh, wait, the emails said "Hide the DECLINE"). Even THEY think temperatures were DECLINING! Out of context? Hmm, what decline?

Does that mean we should go and burn fossil fuel willy nilly? No.

Does that mean that we shoudn't allow government bureaucrats to increase their power and taxation based on AGW? Yes.

There are many solutions to CO2 increases, and bureaucrats are NOT interested in those which are practical. Unfortunately these require Capitalism to work. These bureaucrats are only interested in solutions which increase their power andn control.

I am really puzzled why this huge deception by these scientists is so quickly dismissed by the pro AGW camp, like it is religion.

I guess this is the main point - IT IS NOT SCIENCE ANYMORE. It is religion.

FOLLOW THE MONEY. Increasing energy expenditures by forcing a move to more expensive energy sources, away from fossil fuel via taxation, will INCREASE THE MONEY STREAM, increasing the opportunity for profiteering. Big Business WANTS CO2 caps. Especially Goldman Sachs which will OWN the trading business. You know, the same GS that got bailed out by Paulson, because Paulson was ex GS, the same GS from which Geithner came, and the Treasury Sec under Bush.. the same GS as THIS ONE:

Inside The Great American Bubble Machine : Rolling Stone

Hat tip to xturner

ClimateGate apologists' LITANY OF EXCUSES:
Their Charms Proved Irresistible | finem respice

"...we can have a proper result, but only by including a load of garbage!"

my kind of thinking. ends justify the means ------!



http://southparkstudios.mtvnimages.c...0713_07_v6.jpg

smoking will kill you!

This just in!!!!! "Trick" "hide the decline" and "load of garbage" in the proper "context" really means: "kittens" "puppies" and "all things good."

whoops, glad we cleared the up. my bad.

whoops, I lost all my data since 1960. aw what a shame. oh well, lets go get Al Gore and GE rich while pwning your liberty!

^The leftist battle cry... and has been for decades. Except for the ------ part.

that's because they are afraid to offend the people that sustain their power!

WHY ARE THE FUCKERS NOT HAPPY WE'RE NOT FRYING ANYWAY?
Why do they prefer to get governments to divert billions of dollars towards taxes and more expensive sources of energy due to a non existent cause ?
Maybe they really just want more CENTRALIZATION of POWER.

In the late 80s a rich Fabian Socialist by the name of Heilbroner wrote that Socialism and central economic planning will NEVER outproduce Free Markets, and the way then for the bureaucrats to grow their control is to “get behind the ecology movement”.
Reflections: AFTER COMMUNISM : The New Yorker

His manifesto is why the Big Money got behind Big Enviro. The big money that has huge influence in scientific research, are the Tax Exempt Foundations, which are controlled by a certain faction of the elite:
Tax-exempt foundations - SourceWatch

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.


HOLY SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOOK AT THAT HATE SPEECH! This is not how we do it in Europe...USA.

HAHA maybe i was just taking it out of context.... no biggie, panic attack over.

^^^ Fixed that for you.

i guess Michael Crichton was right

anyone else read State of Fear?

+1 to Crichton.

I've long had suspicions that GW was being exaggerated for political ends, but I never imagined it was THIS BOGUS. I thought there was GW, just that most of it wasn't man made. Looks like it's Mann-made all right! It's incredible how those fuckers that the rest of the world were depending on, would totally fabricate warming when there wasn't.

Not only does this make me doubt all the alarmists now, but it has shaken my faith in organized science in general. WHO DO WE BELIEVE NOW? Men of science are supposed to hold scientific truth above all else. Now how can we lend credence to ANY groups of scientists? How do we know now that Peak Oil is real? That the proper avenues of nuclear fusion research is being funded? That NASA is spending taxpayer money efficiently? What I see now is that ANY science that is funded with public money is suspect. Being an engineer in the private sector, I think that money spent in private R&D is more efficiently spent in the context of free market competition.

I really hate getting pulled into discussions about this kind of crap, because there's almost always more opinion than reason involved, but...

Here's a little table I pulled off Wikipedia - it may be off in minutiae, but pretty much agrees with everything I've read:

Composition of dry atmosphere, by volume[2] ppmv: parts per million by volume

Gas Volume
Nitrogen (N2) 780,840 ppmv (78.084%)
Oxygen (O2) 209,460 ppmv (20.946%)
Argon (Ar) 9,340 ppmv (0.9340%)
Carbon dioxide (CO2) 387 ppmv (0.0387%)
Neon (Ne) 18.18 ppmv (0.001818%)
Helium (He) 5.24 ppmv (0.000524%)
Methane (CH4) 1.79 ppmv (0.000179%)
Krypton (Kr) 1.14 ppmv (0.000114%)
Hydrogen (H2) 0.55 ppmv (0.000055%)
Nitrous oxide (N2O) 0.3 ppmv (0.00003%)
Xenon (Xe) 0.09 ppmv (9x10−6%)
Ozone (O3) 0.0 to 0.07 ppmv (0% to 7x10−6%)
Nitrogen dioxide (NO2) 0.02 ppmv (2x10−6%)
Iodine (I) 0.01 ppmv (1x10−6%)
Carbon monoxide (CO) 0.1 ppmv
Ammonia (NH3) trace
Not included in above dry atmosphere:
Water vapor (H2O) ~0.40% over full atmosphere, typically 1%-4% at surface

You will notice that CO2, the major culprit in global warming, comprises a whopping .0387 % by volume of the atmosphere.

My undergrad degree was a dual in Biology and Chemistry, and I was forced to learn about CO2 cycles over the eons and ecological effects involving Ice Ages and warm cycles and........it's all WAY tedious to try to recall. I do recall that coring samples from Antarctica demonstrate natural hot and cold cycles in the overall planetary climate predating mammals in general, man in particular. These were all accompanied by atmospheric CO2 increases and decreases, thought to be triggered by changes in the gas's solubility in ocean water due to water temperature changes.

There's a weird self-flagellating portion of my personality that wants to feel guilty because I'm a profligate CO2 producer and by not fixing it I'm helping to consign mankind to the fate of the Pterodactyl. But then I come to my senses.

I've left science way in my past, but CO2 is less than 4 hundredths of 1 percent of the atmosphere NOW, when we're all in deep shit over global warming because of the stuff. Has anybody ever posited what a GOOD proportion of CO2 is?

I feel a sudden need to release a little CO2 - via 22 oz of Newcastle Brown Ale. Thinking about this shit makes me thirsty. And tired.:hustler:

Plants consume CO2. They need it to grow. Anybody know what plants do in the presence of increased levels of CO2? They flourish. What happens if CO2 levels diminish even slightly? Plants grow smaller and grow more slowly. If crops yielded just 10% less worldwide millions would starve.

If billions of dollars are duped out of gullible or complicit entities and people to buy vapor credits that were printed in the back room at zero cost to the seller, who wins and loses? General Electric wins because they are doing the printing. The "hate America first" crowd wins because our economy is forced to collapse because we are taxed out of the ability to produce or compete. Likewise the anti-capitalists that masquerade as environmentalists will achieve their socialist oligarchy and their useful idiots, the real "love mother earth" simpletons, will be dropped as soon as they are no longer useful.

The founder of Greenpeace left it in the 1980s citing the fact that the organization had been commandeered by people who weren't there because they loved the earth, but that they hated capitalism and private ownership of production. He said that they became dominated by domestic communist and socialist activists whose primary mission was to destroy the profitability of corporations. How many times do you hear the word profit in the news when it is not in a negative context? It is shameful that profit envy has been successfully propagated in this country. Absolutely shameful.

huge deception?
alarmists?

where is the proof that the original raw data was dumped? links?

there is more hysteria over climate change collusion than the mass hysterical cult of christianity.

BTW - methane is the other major greenhouse gas. The Newcastle just keeps on giving....

They claim the "lost" the data.
What they have left is "value added data". Yep, WARMING added.

After one of the hottest, driest summers ever, it may snow here in the morning. It does not snow in South Texas very often, and is definitely rare this early in the season. Not sure what that is worth, but there it is.

I'd say that you addition is worth about $0.02

they who? what source? what link? do you fully understand how climatologists process their data to make it ready for general consumption? (I dont)

"warming" is based on average temperatures over a period of time. and if i recall, texas had some serious heat and droughts earlier this year.

How do you know that 20000yrs ago Texas didn't have the same serious heat and droughts?

I think its funny that we are using a few hundred years of actual recorded data, and a few thousand years of "measured" data from ice and shit. How is that nearly enough time to to get an accurate sample of the earth's climate? Hasn't the earth been around for like millions of years?

I agree.

It stopped getting fractions of a degree warmer in 1996. It has been cooling fractions of a degree since. Therefore they had to dump the data in the rising oceans that were swallowing New York City because the sham was up. Global warming became global climate change because global warming wasn't warming and the research funds that were perpetuating this circle jerk would go by-by if nothing happened.
HELP! Need...more...crisis! (gasp) Must...have...crisis...for...huge...research...gra nts! Must...scare...easily...influenced...people...who. ..don't...use...logic! (gasp) Need...useful...idiots! Must...get...research...grants! (gasp)

When you are ignorant, everything is new to you. It is a syndrome called "Wow this has never happened before just because I haven't seen it." It is a similar human phenomenon to the superstitions that had people making human sacrifices when the sun was being swallowed by the moon during an eclipse. "Yeah, buddy, you made the sun come back. Good for you."

Dude, there was this medieval warm period thing that was followed by this super awesome little ice age thing followed by this current warming thing. No, seriously, dude, look it up.:facepalm:
Little Ice Age - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Temperature changes on earth frankly have more to do with solar activity than anything happening on this planet short of volcanic ash blocking out the sun. Witness:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ot_Numbers.png

There's the little ice age on the left and over there at the end on the right is the falling off occurring after 1996...

Do I see a trend? I look at this and I see a natural warming period occurring at year 0. Maybe I just don't know how to read graphs.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...emperature.png

Stole the image from wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperature_record

dont you know? now that humans live on earth, the climate is supposed to stay the samey same, always!! if it changes, there must be something wrong!

God is smiting thee!

My preacher says earth has only been around for about 5000 years. So do not believe all those geologists and archaeologists. They are just out to confuse us.

That explains why I feel smitten.

ahem