Forrest95M

So I would assume I'm one of, if not the youngest member on this forum. I graduate high school in June, I should be able to get out in April if I get my internship I applied for. I've learned a sh*t ton on this forum and I feel like it's definitely a special place because of the active members here and how honest they are. So my questions are obviously about college and just after high school in general.
First I'll give you some background about myself, I've worked for my father who owns a small landscape business for the last 5-6 years, every day, every summer. I also bounced around a few other jobs as a small engine mechanic, which I just did only for the money. Landscaping/Arboriculture is something I've been interested in for a while. My father has been in the industry for around 30 years, he just recently left his old company because they were sold to a national company and started his current business. Most of the people he hired when through the UMass Amherst arboriculture program, so I looked into it and they had a 1 week pre-college program on the course so I signed up for it, I enjoyed the course a lot, got to meet the professor, and even had some time up in trees. I applied to the school for early action in early November, I heard back and got in a few days ago. I looked at the cost and it was around $30,000 for a year. I didn't think much of it at the time but now crunch time is coming for other school and other possibilities and it seems like a lot.
I've tossed around the idea of the military as well for the past 2 years, I haven't talked to a recruiter at all, which I know is the first real step. I know quite a few of you are vets (thank you for your service and any input would be greatly appreciated). I was curious what people though of enlisting for 4 years and taking college courses at sea and after getting out. My father seems to have a notion of the military being for runts who don't know what they want to do with themselves and that the idea of supported college will be gone because of budget cuts or something (It was a long rant). I want to know is it all that they hype it up to be? Do you really leave with a good set of skills that can be used later in life? Are you really even in any competition with those who went through college? Am I better off just footing the college bill and living frugally for the next few years?
Other schools do interest me, like Wentworth (specifically electrical) and mass maritime (merchant marine) which I plan on applying too anyway. I know these are pretty much impossible questions for you guys to answer, I just didn't really know how to word them
Thanks for reading
--Forrest

m2cupcar

iTrader: (5)

fwiw- Wife and I both went to local state/community colleges for the first two years then transferred to the university of our choice. That's yields a significant savings. You just need to research what credits the school of your choice will except from your first two years.

Guardiola

iTrader: (1)

It sounds like you don't know what you want. I would suggest getting a job and going to a community college. The job will give you experience. The community college will give you an affordable 2-year degree. You can even put it towards a 4-year degree, if you decide to go that route. Sometimes an associate's and some experience is all you need.
Take the opportunity to take classes you don't need. Pick up a few hours of welding or something that interests you on a personal level. Even with some extra hours, you should finish well shy of the $30k one year would have cost at UMass.
After your college years are up, you still have the option of going into the military. Most branches give you a higher starting rank when you enter with an associate's degree, and even higher with a bachelor's.

Ryan_G

iTrader: (8)

You need to talk to Troy >>Miata Turbo Forum -Boost cars, acquire cats. - View Profile: miata2fast. He owns a successful landscaping company that specializes in native fauna. He would probably be willing to talk to you about it in some depth and might be able to give you some insight on what would be worth it for you. I know he works with the local government a lot in parks and stuff and does some work to contain invasive species. I am sure he has some other contacts in academia and other related fields that might be able to provide further information. I'll alert him of this thread. You should PM him as well.

EDIT: I have no idea how to tag another forum member in a post.

bahurd

iTrader: (8)

Paging @miata2fast

z31maniac

LEARN A TRADE.

Or how to code.

Monk

iTrader: (3)

Do as others have said and do your first two years at a community college. Don't take out loans at all in that time, and after the first year, claim your income on the FAFSA instead of your parents. That should easily qualify you for a Pell grant.
As far as the military goes... it really just depends. I went into the navy with a clear idea of what I wanted to do, and I enjoyed my time, for the most part.
Afterwards, I used the GI bill to pay for whatever scholarships and grants would not.
If you go into the military without picking a job and knowing exactly what it takes to actually achieve the position, you are going to have a bad time.
Community college seems to be the answer here. Don't be like the other 95% percent of your generation and shackle yourself with debt before you even know how to live by yourself.

sixshooter

iTrader: (12)

The military is an excellent way to pay for college and gain some experience and maturity.

I highly recommend a path that keeps you from borrowing money in the form of student loans. Whether that is paying as you go going to Community College and/or using the GI Bill, you will be far ahead of your contemporaries who have borrowed $100,000 to go to college once you are out.

bahurd

iTrader: (8)

I graduated college 6 yrs after my HS classmates. While they were in school I did active duty in the Air Guard, got into a mfg job as a machinist, put myself through school by putting in extra trips + weekends in the Air Guard (air crew) and going to school nights. In those days our community colleges were called "technical schools". Luckily I was single, most of the credits transferred to a 4yr school and I was fortunate to work in a place where they valued and rewarded initiative.

I finished college 3 months before my 6yr obligation ended. Buy that time I was already working in Industrial Engineering because of the experience.

There are many ways to pay for your education as you go if you do the effort. Most important thing I'd offer is try and make whatever your vocation is 'future proof' if that's possible.

You have to convince yourself no one else is going to do it for you including parents.

Good luck!

chicksdigmiatas

iTrader: (11)

Active Duty Air Force here. It is great, they pay for your school, and on active duty the benefits are stellar. There are tons, and I mean tons of opportunities for education programs. STEM, Nursing, Air Force Academy. Even the enlisted PME (Professional Military Education) is at a bachelors to masters level. So we are no dummies.

They paid for my ME degree and I'm working on masters in engineering management. As far as being more marketable for employment, as long as you don't dick around and get your degree, you will be more marketable. Government civilian positions show hiring preference to veterans, and most companies see military service, and know you'll work.

As far as myself, I am at my 10 year mark, just made E7, and have no plans of getting out. It has been a blast. I've gotten to tour the Arabian peninsula and about half of Europe. I've spent most my career in TX but through deployments and TDYs have had some great (and maybe a couple of oh ****) experiences. If your interested, find someone like myself or a couple other members of this forum who aren't recruiters to help you through the process.

Other than that, go to a 2 year community college. That is fine. I never, ever had any trouble getting anyone to accept them. Well University of North Dakota did give me some flack, but it worked out. Those folks are overly proud of their engineering program. If you're interested in your fathers business, do it.

The main thing is, find some career that people always need. We always need engineers, mechanics, and medics. Farmers too, but I don't want my post getting moved to the political section, just count the farming thing out.

z31maniac

Like I said, a trade. As bahurd mentioned, futureproof.

Some guy in India can't fix your HVAC or Plumbing.

shuiend

iTrader: (24)

If you go the trade route, take some business and accounting class at a local community college. Trades pays well when you are young, but it is at the cost of your body. So the real way to make good money in it is to train while young, then as you age start your own company and have other younger people work for you.

There are very few days when I am sitting at my desk at work that I don't wish I was out doing something "trade" like. Then reality takes over and I accept that long term my body will be much happier with me at the desk.

sixshooter

iTrader: (12)

I have a friend who joined the military at 17 and had a full military retirement coming in after he left at age 37. Plus he had his master's degree in Business Administration and a lot of experience in management from the military. If his degree had been in some sort of a science like an engineering degree of some sort he could have made a lot more when he got out. If he had completed his degree prior to joining the service then his retirement and his pay would have been a lot more over the 20 years. Then he ended up with a good paying job in addition to his military retirement every month.

But whatever you do I implore you to get science degree and not an arts degree. A BS is almost always going to be worth more than a BA. That is a part of the future proofing that the fellows keep talking about.

One of my customers is a power plant. They had an open position for about 9 months for a mechanical engineer. No specific experience necessary. They would train. The job started at $80,000. They could not get anyone to apply. This was in an area where you could buy a four-bedroom house with a large yard for $150,000. There weren't any positions for Bachelor of Arts graduates with no experience paying more than about 30,000.

aidandj

iTrader: (5)

May not necessarily be the advice for you because you don't know exactly what you want to do.

But if you love doing something, that has good career opportunities, don't necessarily be afraid of loans.

My fiance is about to start Nursing school. Nursing is a well paid profession, that is in high demand and has many paths for future advancement and further learning.

She will be taking out upwards of $60k in loans to get through her program. But when she is done she will be doing something she loves, and making a living that provides a means to pay back her loans.

I have friends who are still paying back hundreds of thousands of dollars of med school loans. But they don't care, because they are doing exactly what they want to be doing for the rest of their life, saving peoples lives.

If you don't know what you want to do, ignore the advice above, but loans have a place in education.

Ryan_G

iTrader: (8)

I agree with this completely. I never had loans myself due to full scholarships and help from my grandparents to pay for my master's degree but even if I had to pay every penny I would have owed $45-50k most for undergrad and graduate level education. I went to a state school that wasn't particularly prestigious but was well ranked for my major. I chose a career path with plenty of opportunities and good salary and advancement trajectory. I have made a few early jumps and I'm doing quite well for myself at the young age of 26. I sit in an office and the work is a little boring but I pull in a rather handsome salary for my age and the COL in Tampa. I also rarely work more than 40 hours. I know a lot of people are mentioning trades but technically skilled office jobs are also great. They don't tear up your body and usually pay very well. Plenty of young trades people do make great money but they are also often working in not so great conditions (think oil fields/rigs, hot shops, dangerous environments) and have concerns related to job security and may have to always be willing to uproot and move for steady work. There are trade-offs in every route. You need to sit down and prioritize what you actually want out of life and then work backwards into a career that fits that ideal. Unless, of course, you have a true passion (which I don't or at least nothing I would turn into a career) that you would like to pursue.

sixshooter

iTrader: (12)

I have a nearly worthless psychology degree, other than the fact I wouldn't have been considered for my current or previous jobs without a degree. So I guess it is worth it for that reason. I work in a profession I didn't know existed and wouldn't have thought I had an aptitude for, but I do pretty well. Sometimes opportunities sneak up in you. But you need to typically get your ticket punched at various necessary stops to move to each succeeding level.

samnavy

iTrader: (7)

Your Dad is talking badly about the military because he has no clue. You guys probably have no close family friends who are military and don't live in a mil-populated area. Plus, living in Mass, he's probably a screaming liberal who would rather you rack up $150k of debt getting a history degree and then moving back home and taking over the family business because you couldn't find a job anywhere else, were broke and desperate. I'm kidding sorta... but really, he's speaking poorly about joining because of a stigma that just doesn't exist anymore. Sure, there are guys out there who still join because the judge said "Jail or Army, choose now"... and off he went to dig trenches. But the truth is that competition in the non-grunt rates is high, and kids are damned smarter today about everything than your Dad was when Pole Position was the new hotness.

Your first place to start is your school guidance counselor. Tell him you want to take the ASVAB and let him set it up. A high school in your area probably has them regularly scheduled, or you may be connected with a recruiter and take it at a recruiting station with 50 other people on a specific date. Don't be scared of recruiters... they have a job to do and you're on the menu, but never pick up a pen to sign up without somebody you trust there with you... like Mom or Dad. You need to take the ASVAB because if you're a total rock and don't know it, painting bulkheads or digging ******** is in your future. OTOH, maybe you're a stud and qualify for nuke, or intel, or cyber, or have a big swinger and get to be God's gift to women and be a SEAL!

A plan is good to have. Short term enlistments that require little to no schooling could be as little as 4 years. If you're going to school for a year or picking up a technical rate that requires a cash-investment to train you, it might be a 6-year gig. Once out of boot camp, the next year that you're in school is going to be make-or-break for your habit patterns. Remember, lots of guys are there because they were fuckups before and haven't grown up... they want to party and **** and spend money and keep wasting time. YOU don't want to be that guy. You want to be the disciplined guy who is already saving money and doesn't have a ton to **** around with partying. You want to get a stable nice girlfriend with no piercings who goes to church and doesn't club, preferably a civilian chick with her own car and a job with a future. You do not want to get her pregnant, so no "Just the tip" or any of that ****... wrap it up every time no matter what she says she's taking. You also want to be taking online courses that keep you home a few nights a week and the odd weekend at a group-study or something. Plenty of opportunity to get the Military to pay for it.

While you're being the model soldier/sailor/Marine, your superiors WILL NOTICE. You will stand out in the crowd by simply not being a TED (Typical Enlisted Dude) or FRED (******* Retarded Enlisted Dude). Yup, I'm an Officer, and I'm glad my Chief doesn't own a Miata because Officers aren't really allowed to use those terms in polite conversation. Do your job well, don't swear as much as the other guys, take 10 more seconds on your uniform than you think you should, and never ever ever ever ever ******* DON'T ******* EVER get in a relationship with any chick who works any closer to you than the other side of the base.

ROTC... ROTC is a scholarship that pays for college and then requires X number of years of military service... as an Officer. I think you've missed the deadline for Air Force ROTC Application... Army is next week, and Navy is at the end of the month. Navy and Marines are the same program. If you've got a 3.0 or better and do a few extra-curricular things or play a sport, or whatever, it's easy'ish to apply. Your guidance counselor can tell you more, or you can Google that shiz... it's all online. Letters of recommendations are probably the hardest thing to come by since lots of adults can't write... Google "examples or ROTC recommendation letters" and print out 20 or so for them to get started.

If you join enlisted, there are a lot of way to become an Officer later... I won't bore you with the details, but basically you have to be the poster-boy I talked about earlier and your leadership will notice and help you down that path.

Advantages to Military straight out of high-school:
You get a steady paycheck, free place to live, full medical/dental, tons of training, 28 days a year of vacation, and a guaranteed job for at least 20 years if you're just plain average at what you do.
Your family also gets crazy cheap full medical/dental and a place to live... and you have no idea yet how awesome that is.
At some point, you'll probably be stationed in Florida, Texas, Nevada, etc... and claim residency and never pay state income tax as long as you're in the service.
YOU GET 4 YEARS OF COLLEGE PAID FOR NO MATTER WHAT IF YOU JUST COMPLETE YOUR CONTRACT (I think you need to do 6 years)! Of keep it for your wife or kids to use... my wife is using my GI bill to get her Masters and then both my kids are getting 1 year college free each... actually, they'll go ROTC and get the whole thing paid for.

The new military retirement system just kicked off and big news for those who plan on using a military enlistment as a way to fund college and move on. You get a 1% contribution to your TSP retirement plan from the gov't, who will match up to 4%. I'm pretty sure it's tough to find a company out there who will match 4% into a retirement plan.

For those going the full 20 or more, the new retirement percentage pays 2% for every year of service... that's only 40% if you retire at 20yrs compared to the 50% we get now. But the goal is to get people to start saving early in their career to offset the lower retirement pay.

It's late, I'm tired... back tomorrow to continue...

patsmx5

iTrader: (16)

Agreed 100%

I borrowed to get though school for a BS in Mechanical engineering. Paid all the loans back quickly and easily once I was out of school. I don't borrow money for anything else, but I did for school and have no regret.

Forrest95M

The weird thing is, he is actually pretty right wing. He is a small business owner and thinks that government is too big, especially with the help issue in the labor field. He had a very rough upbringing, he told me once that he considered the army to become a medic but didn't see the light so to speak.

As far as my gpa is I have a 3.7 and like an 1150 on the sat (1600 score). I've qualified for National honor society and have played sports throughout high school. I'll will definitely bring some of those benefits into conversation. You were one of the people I was hoping would respond!
One last question, how much control do you really have over your own future as an enlisted, are the options slim as far as MOS goes? I'm really interested in something about being a machinist mate.

Forrest95M

There are times where I look at my old man and think, do I really want to be out working everyday with my hands at 55? Granted the business is just barely getting to the point where he can work on it rather than in it, that seems to be his next logical goal.