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Old 05-20-2008, 11:32 AM   #1
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Default contemplating the e85 switch

are the stock injectors enough?
do I need to worry about corrosion?
financially, is it worth the switch yet?
will the lc-1 will read from 6.0-11:1 afr's?
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Old 05-20-2008, 11:37 AM   #2
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you need like 7x the injector.
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Old 05-20-2008, 11:37 AM   #3
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No
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Old 05-20-2008, 11:41 AM   #4
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No
does that "no" also apply to the lc-1?
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Old 05-20-2008, 11:44 AM   #5
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does that "no" also apply to the lc-1?
No, just to you.
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Old 05-20-2008, 11:48 AM   #6
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does that "no" also apply to the lc-1?
All of the above.
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Old 05-20-2008, 11:55 AM   #7
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No, just to you.
tone down the disrespect bro. You do not want to **** me off bro, not when I have your ip.
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Old 05-20-2008, 12:19 PM   #8
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I am also kind of interested in this. Both because it might help me save some cash (you guys in US just think you have high gas prices.) and because it would be really cool to have a more environmentally friendly sports car.

What I found out so far is that (as you know) the E85 may cause corrosion to the rubber parts in our fuel system, which might be the biggest pain to fix. But the rest of the engine and exhaust will be OK. You need a significantly larger amount of fuel (do not know if the stock injectors are enough, but I doubt it) and the octant value is 104 RON (that’s RON now, not (R+N)/2.

I have a ton of info collected that I need to study and I would share it with you… but I guess your Swedish isn’t that good?
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Old 05-20-2008, 12:22 PM   #9
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You know how many tanks of gas you will have to go through in order to break even on investment to perform this conversion?

Diesel conversion would probably be more worth it.
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Old 05-20-2008, 12:24 PM   #10
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My wife has a ghetto cruiser Impala for her company car, one of the new flex fuel ones. The mileage they quote for gasoline is (city/hwy) 18/29 and for E85 it's 14/21. In the ballpark of a 25% drop in miles per gallon, and that's in a car designed to run E85 from the factory. MS could (probably?) handle the timing and fuel with big enough injectors. Hell, somewhere on the net is a vid of a Cobra replicar putting down like 900 whp on E85. Granted it was a turbo'ed V8 but it should be possible to get decent power out of a 4-banger assuming you can give it enough fuel.

Yes, you would have to worry about corrosion because ethanol is very weakly acidic. If you replaced all the parts in the fuel delivery system with ones designed for long-term E85 exposure, you'd be okay. I suspect in a few years we'll know if GM got that part right or not.

As for whether it's economical, that depends on the price of gas versus E85. Assuming at least a 25% mpg loss running E85, since gas is $4/gal, E85 would have to be under $3/gal just to break even on fuel, plus you'd spend more than a few $$$ on the conversion. I have no idea what E85 costs since the gas stations I go to don't have it.
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Old 05-20-2008, 12:24 PM   #11
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I'd have to buy another mspnp for the 95 since that's my daily, and it would take some time for that to pay off in the long-run.
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Old 05-20-2008, 12:26 PM   #12
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Like I said, there's a reason they stopped using ethanol after the Model T.
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Old 05-20-2008, 12:33 PM   #13
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ethanol's fer drinkin.
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Old 05-20-2008, 12:37 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
are the stock injectors enough?
Probably not, you need about 30% more fuel with e-85
Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
do I need to worry about corrosion?
I would make sure any rubber lines were in good condition, and change your fuel filter a couple of times shortly after the conversion. The e-85 will cut loose a bunch of buildup in the system. I ran it for over a year with no corrosion issues
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Originally Posted by hustler View Post
financially, is it worth the switch yet?
Who cares, 105 octane for less than pump prices is the reason to change not savings.
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Originally Posted by hustler View Post
will the lc-1 will read from 6.0-11:1 afr's?
All wide band 02 sensors are lambda based. I found the Lambda value I wanted for my target e-85 ratio then used conversion table to translate that to gasoline AFR so that I didnt have to mess with setting the LC-1 up to translate to e-85.

As a reference lets assume that Max power on the rich side with e85 is around 7:1 AFR thats a lambda of ~ 0.72

Gasoline lambda of ~ 0.72 is 10.6:1

SO.. with e-85 and not changing your LC-1, you tune for an "Indicated AFR" of 10.6

As always YMMV and I claim no responsibility for anything bad that happens as a result of this information.
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Old 05-20-2008, 12:43 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torkel View Post
I am also kind of interested in this. Both because it might help me save some cash (you guys in US just think you have high gas prices.) and because it would be really cool to have a more environmentally friendly sports car.

You really think so? Read-> http://i-r-squared.blogspot.com/2006...erors-new.html
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Old 05-20-2008, 01:12 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torkel View Post
I am also kind of interested in this. Both because it might help me save some cash (you guys in US just think you have high gas prices.) and because it would be really cool to have a more environmentally friendly sports car.

What I found out so far is that (as you know) the E85 may cause corrosion to the rubber parts in our fuel system, which might be the biggest pain to fix. But the rest of the engine and exhaust will be OK. You need a significantly larger amount of fuel (do not know if the stock injectors are enough, but I doubt it) and the octant value is 104 RON (that’s RON now, not (R+N)/2.

I have a ton of info collected that I need to study and I would share it with you… but I guess your Swedish isn’t that good?

I'm in the same boat as Torkel on this one. We have tons of sugar cane locally and I know it's just a matter of time before the government reaches some kind of agreement with some big corporation to start producing E85.

Torkel, I suggest you start a thread on this subject. I know Ethanol (produced from corn) is a big political issue in the States and will not become the fuel of the future there but I see our situation developing towards something very similar to what goes on in Brazil already.

It's my understanding that the big car producers only install a sensor to read whether the engine is using E85 or regular gasoline; Am I wrong?

I need to find out what has to be done to be able to switch back an forth between both types of fuel.
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Old 05-20-2008, 01:19 PM   #17
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They have a fuel composition sensor (FCS) that senses the amount of ethanol in the mix.

Megasquirt and flex fuel
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Old 05-20-2008, 01:25 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottFW View Post
They have a fuel composition sensor (FCS) that senses the amount of ethanol in the mix.

Megasquirt and flex fuel
lol, megasquirt is awesome.
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Old 05-21-2008, 04:00 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafa View Post
Torkel, I suggest you start a thread on this subject. I know Ethanol (produced from corn) is a big political issue in the States and will not become the fuel of the future there but I see our situation developing towards something very similar to what goes on in Brazil already.
Well, in Sweden (to which I some time in the future will move back to) as well as here in Germany the debate is running high around E85. Most of the Swedish E85 is made in Brazil and all agree that it is not at all such a wonderful planet saving fuel as it was painted up to be.

However, most experts agree that it is better then diesel and a lot better then regular gas. Naturally, it is important to get a closer source for the fuel and when that happends, it will be a vast improvment. Adding to that, the E85 is now getting close to half the price of gas, since gas is about $8/gallon here.

I will not start a thread on this. I know too little at the time. I might come back when I had time to do some proper research.
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Old 05-21-2008, 04:25 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Chris Swearingen View Post
Who cares, 105 octane for less than pump prices is the reason to change not savings.
DING DING DING DING! Thats my ONLY interest in E85. POWER. Who gives a **** about fuel consumption? People cry about how much MORE fuel E85 uses.. Well DURR.... Thats like crying that your top fuel drag car uses more fuel than your station wagon.. Maybe thats because the drag car runs at a 1:1 AFR?

Quote:
Originally Posted by torkel
I am also kind of interested in this. Both because it might help me save some cash (you guys in US just think you have high gas prices.) and because it would be really cool to have a more environmentally friendly sports car.
**** the environment. Why should I let Some ***** *** seal or a ------y moose ******* bankrupt me in energy prices when I'm doing nothing more than trying to make a ******* living here??? I'd fly up there to Alaska and shoot those ******* myself if it'd get the drills in there to get more oil.

One thing I'll miss about my friends smoke screen pollution providing blown up miata... Driving next to the **** in their little gas-electric piece of ****..

Seriously, do those cheap ******* losers actually think they're saving the planet buying into this "green" gayness, then spending 40,000 ******* dollars on a "hybrid?" What a joke. I like telling those people "Any portion of this planet you think you're saving, I'm destroying!" As I lay down a smoke screen from my exhaust.

Global warming is bullshit. Made up by Al Gore and his band of hippie ------ losers.



Quote:
Originally Posted by levnubhin View Post
You don't find that a little interesting the article was written by someone who works for a ******* major oil company?? Granted most of the research I've personally done on Ethanol as a fuel gives pretty close to the same negative findings.
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