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Old 04-29-2009, 08:32 PM   #21
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We also test run the test on blood/serum
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Old 04-29-2009, 08:34 PM   #22
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I'm looking in our labs fridge right now, there's about 100 tubes waiting to be tested for it. Dont ask me why they test for it... I'm no doctor
Best I can figure is you have some sports leaques that make their own rules on what people can and can't use. Creatine can be consiered performance enhancing by some. Maybe some of them have there own rules against use of anyting "they" consider performance enhancing.
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Old 04-29-2009, 08:37 PM   #23
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Doubt it, most of these people are old, we do testing for patients nationwide, I'm guessing we're checking on their diets..
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Old 04-29-2009, 08:40 PM   #24
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We are actually looking for kidney failure.. huh who'd a thought..

Creatinine is a chemical waste molecule that is generated from muscle metabolism. Creatinine is produced from creatine, a molecule of major importance for energy production in muscles. Approximately 2% of the body's creatine is converted to creatinine every day. Creatinine is transported through the bloodstream to the kidneys. The kidneys filter out most of the creatinine and dispose of it in the urine.

Because the muscle mass in the body is relatively constant from day to day, the creatinine level in the blood normally remains essentially unchanged on a daily basis.


Why is it important to check blood creatinine levels?
The kidneys maintain the blood creatinine in a normal range. Creatinine has been found to be a fairly reliable indicator of kidney function.

As the kidneys become impaired for any reason, the creatinine level in the blood will rise due to poor clearance by the kidneys. Abnormally high levels of creatinine thus warn of possible malfunction or failure of the kidneys. It is for this reason that standard blood tests routinely check the amount of creatinine in the blood. A more precise measure of the kidney function can be estimated by calculating how much creatinine is cleared from the body by the kidneys and it is referred to creatinine clearance.
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Old 04-29-2009, 08:43 PM   #25
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Oh, another explanation could be they are checking for early signs of kidney disease. Elevated levels of creatinane, which is a waste byproduct of creatine, can be a sign of kidney disease. This is one of the reasons it got the reputation of causing kidney problems. In early studies doctors drew that link not realizing that the elevated levels when dealing with people supplementing creatine was just excretion of the excess. Subsequent studies have shown those early studies to be false assumptions.
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Old 04-29-2009, 08:44 PM   #26
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We are actually looking for kidney failure.. huh who'd a thought..

Creatinine is a chemical waste molecule that is generated from muscle metabolism. Creatinine is produced from creatine, a molecule of major importance for energy production in muscles. Approximately 2% of the body's creatine is converted to creatinine every day. Creatinine is transported through the bloodstream to the kidneys. The kidneys filter out most of the creatinine and dispose of it in the urine.

Because the muscle mass in the body is relatively constant from day to day, the creatinine level in the blood normally remains essentially unchanged on a daily basis.


Why is it important to check blood creatinine levels?
The kidneys maintain the blood creatinine in a normal range. Creatinine has been found to be a fairly reliable indicator of kidney function.

As the kidneys become impaired for any reason, the creatinine level in the blood will rise due to poor clearance by the kidneys. Abnormally high levels of creatinine thus warn of possible malfunction or failure of the kidneys. It is for this reason that standard blood tests routinely check the amount of creatinine in the blood. A more precise measure of the kidney function can be estimated by calculating how much creatinine is cleared from the body by the kidneys and it is referred to creatinine clearance.
We must have been typing at the same time.
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Old 04-29-2009, 08:50 PM   #27
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False. Many supplement don't work but there are many that do. creatine is one that does. Creatine has no affect on sex drive, that is a myth. It does not increase testosterone, that is also a myth.
Creatine is one that works only because its a naturally occuring substance in many foods we eat, if you have an incomplete diet then supplementing it would help. I eat normally, so therefore when I took it all it did for me was make me retain water. I still trained harder and lifted more then my friends who stayed on it and took extra **** like noxplode.
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Old 04-29-2009, 08:58 PM   #28
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Like was said, drink lots of water. Also make sure you're stretching plenty before and after your workout.

Of course like anything, it doesn't work unless you train.
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Old 04-29-2009, 09:01 PM   #29
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Creatine is one that works only because its a naturally occuring substance in many foods we eat, if you have an incomplete diet then supplementing it would help. I eat normally, so therefore when I took it all it did for me was make me retain water. I still trained harder and lifted more then my friends who stayed on it and took extra **** like noxplode.
Not true. Even on a complete diet, which most people don't have, supplementing with creatine will increase lean muscle mass if all other factors are even, i.e diet, workout intensity etc. Yes, most people tend to hold a little subcontanes water (between the skin and muscles) but, that does not mean it is not working. Creatine also draws water into the muscles which increases cell volume which in turn increase mass. it also delays the onset of ATP in the muscle (that burning sensation) which allows you to get more reps and heavier weight, which increases muscle mass. I can't answer for the variances in you friends and you. In most cases it is the difference between diet and exercise intensity. A lot of people take a bunch of supps and eat ****, and can't figure out why the supps don't work. Supps are just that, a supplement to you diet. If your diet sucks, most won't do you any good. You can take all the **** you want, but if you work out like a bitch, you won't see any decent gains. There are many factors that could be the difference. but saying creatine doesn't work is false. It is one of the most studied supplemts in history...studies show that it works.
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Old 04-29-2009, 09:22 PM   #30
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i tried it back in the day, apparently the new stuff is much better but i never saw it do anything for me, but i do build muscle easily so maybe i don't need it. I'd much more recommend anyone do everything natural, and i swear the best way to build muscle is exactly that.....do things that are natural activities like work contruction, rock climb, RUN, ****, play sports......
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Old 04-29-2009, 09:38 PM   #31
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Oh, I'm sure he will be here sooner or later. Tho I gotta ask, what's a CHP doing on this board? Sorta the minority to find guys like yourselves in with car junkies! Good to see that all of the CHPs I know still have hope

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I'm still a dork. I mean, i did make a joke about an enlarged prostate. I just happen to be a dork with a fast car
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Old 04-29-2009, 10:13 PM   #32
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Not true. Even on a complete diet, which most people don't have, supplementing with creatine will increase lean muscle mass if all other factors are even, i.e diet, workout intensity etc. Yes, most people tend to hold a little subcontanes water (between the skin and muscles) but, that does not mean it is not working. Creatine also draws water into the muscles which increases cell volume which in turn increase mass. it also delays the onset of ATP in the muscle (that burning sensation) which allows you to get more reps and heavier weight, which increases muscle mass. I can't answer for the variances in you friends and you. In most cases it is the difference between diet and exercise intensity. A lot of people take a bunch of supps and eat ****, and can't figure out why the supps don't work. Supps are just that, a supplement to you diet. If your diet sucks, most won't do you any good. You can take all the **** you want, but if you work out like a bitch, you won't see any decent gains. There are many factors that could be the difference. but saying creatine doesn't work is false. It is one of the most studied supplemts in history...studies show that it works.
Okay, starting to bug me a little here. Sometimes a little knowledge is a bad thing. Some of what you say has validity, and some is pretty much some crap you might have heard somewhere and are just passing along.

Short story is that the newer supplements have been shown in SMALL (with the emphasis on small) studies to help with weight gain that can not totally be explained by water retention, hence the conclusion that it helps with muscle mass. Again, small studies have shown a marginal increase in high intensity anarobic exercise, but nothing statistically significant. That delayed onset of ATP in muscle is a bunch of horseshit as we're talking fractions of milliseconds. It's like communism, it sounds good in theory.

Now I know it sounds like I am against creatinine, but I am not. In fact, it DOES work for SOME people which is exactly what very SMALL studies have shown. And this perfectly explains the variance of why it doesn't work for everyone or even lots of people.

This is exactly the problem with supplements in general in terms of people saying they work or not. Take the chondroitrin/glucosamine supplements that people take for their joints, some people swear by it and some people call it a waste of money. On the news, they say "studies show that it is not effective" because the avarage joe doesn't get statistics and probabilities. In fact, bottom line of some of the huge studies on chondroitin/glucosamine, they don't work for the majority of the populations, but that also means that they do work for a minority.
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Old 04-29-2009, 10:45 PM   #33
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IIRC, creatine is produced naturally by the body and is used to give your muscles energy for the first 30 seconds or so of intense exercise. Then your body starts the ATP process where it makes more energy. But I could be wrong...I didn't pay attention very well in biology 101.
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Old 04-29-2009, 11:49 PM   #34
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I use Creatine. I usually cycle it 3 months on, 1 off. Done this for about 4 years now. I used Cell Mass for about 3 years, and switched to SizeOn this last year.Creatine to me isn't really a product you "feel", which I think is why some people think it doesn't work, or haven't had success (a lot of that might be that most people have NO CLUE what they are doing in the gym). Either way +1 for using creatine.. but only if you A. Are eating correctly B. Have a half way decent idea of the correct way to lift weights C. Don't expect unrealistic results
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Old 04-30-2009, 12:08 AM   #35
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I take a crazy suppliment called food.

Creatine is not a psychoactive amino acid, nor does it increase test production. Creatine rage is lol.
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Old 04-30-2009, 12:18 AM   #36
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Okay, starting to bug me a little here. Sometimes a little knowledge is a bad thing. Some of what you say has validity, and some is pretty much some crap you might have heard somewhere and are just passing along.

Short story is that the newer supplements have been shown in SMALL (with the emphasis on small) studies to help with weight gain that can not totally be explained by water retention, hence the conclusion that it helps with muscle mass. Again, small studies have shown a marginal increase in high intensity anarobic exercise, but nothing statistically significant. That delayed onset of ATP in muscle is a bunch of horseshit as we're talking fractions of milliseconds. It's like communism, it sounds good in theory.

Now I know it sounds like I am against creatinine, but I am not. In fact, it DOES work for SOME people which is exactly what very SMALL studies have shown. And this perfectly explains the variance of why it doesn't work for everyone or even lots of people.

This is exactly the problem with supplements in general in terms of people saying they work or not. Take the chondroitrin/glucosamine supplements that people take for their joints, some people swear by it and some people call it a waste of money. On the news, they say "studies show that it is not effective" because the avarage joe doesn't get statistics and probabilities. In fact, bottom line of some of the huge studies on chondroitin/glucosamine, they don't work for the majority of the populations, but that also means that they do work for a minority.
You sound like a relative new comer that gets all his information from magazines. But you did get it right on the ATP, that should have been lactic acid, not ATP. I usually don't even engage in these threads because there is always some genius that knows everything but really don't know jack ****. Just curious, how much competitions have you done, and won? How many classes have you taken on kinesiology, sport medicine, sports nutrition ect? How many people have you trained? Are you a certified personal trainer? You do realize those magazine usually only give you exerpts? How long have you been working out seriously? Just curious. But anyway, I'm done, these threads always go the same way...a few people that actually know what they are talking about will post info, and a bunch of others that don't will argue the point. Usually the people that don't know what they are talking about are more than the ones that do.
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Old 04-30-2009, 12:19 AM   #37
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I take a crazy suppliment called food.

Creatine is not a psychoactive amino acid, nor does it increase test production. Creatine rage is lol.
Food is not a supplement. A supplement supplements you diet, i,e food...that's why it is called a supplement.

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Old 04-30-2009, 12:29 AM   #38
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Food is not a supplement. A supplement supplements you diet, i,e food...that's whay it is called a supplement.
Look back through picture archives of bodybuilding and you will be struck by a startling fact. In the last half-decade bodybuilders have been getting much larger much quicker. Certain professionals have added twenty pounds to their contest weight in one season, after having seemingly reached a plateau. The bodybuilding audience loves to hear that this weight gain is due to some secret drug or some newly discovered gene therapy. Elaborate theories are developed to explain these rapid weight gains and the professionals themselves are not helpful; they claim that it's the new X-brand supplement that's doing it and leave it at that.

The truth is that bodybuilders have discovered the most anabolic substance in the body, steel cut oats. Additionally, steel cut oats have the benefit of being not only legal and over the counter in all states, but they are very cheap. A bottle costs less then thirty dollars and there is no need to worry about counterfeits. By correctly using steel cut oats, in conjunction with human growth hormone and anabolic steroids, modern professionals have added pounds of mass onto seemingly stagnant physiques.

This chapter will give a brief overview of steel cut oats and the methods by which their anabolic action is exerted. We will outline how to correctly and safely use steel cut oats both to gain size and to prepare for a contest (or simply diet).

Steel Cut Oats: The Overview
Oats are highly nutritious and filled with cholesterol-fighting soluble fiber. They also have a pleasant, nutty flavor. Most of us are familiar with rolled oats, which are used as a hot breakfast cereal and cookie ingredient, but many health food stores also stock oat groats and oat bran. Steel cut oats are oats that have been chopped into small pieces. They're chewier than rolled oats, and grain aficionados often prefer them for hot oatmeal cereals and muesli.

Safety:
There are no significant risks that accompany the use of steel cut oats. The greatest risk is an over-dose, which leads to oat shock. This is not an overdose in the typical sense of the word; in this case it means that too many oats were administered for the bloodstream. To this end, it is important to choose the correct type of oats and to know when they peak and the effective period of action in your body.

The symptoms of oat shock are easy to recognize.
Distress is relatively rapid, usually in a matter of minutes.
Extreme muscle swelling
Painful muscle pumps
Stretchmarks
Lack of strength
Irritability and change in mood or personality
Inability to interpret pubmed studies
Inflated internet ego

Treatment:
Feed the person a source of quickly absorbed protein. If the person is conscious, BCAA's, free form amino acids, whey hydrolysate or any other available protein source will do. If the person is unconscious, do not try to force meat down his throat.

There is another rapid form of intervention that anyone using steel cut oats should know about: cocoa butter lotion. Cocoa butter lotion with Vitamin E, collagen, and elastin helps prevent and reduce stretch marks often caused by steel cut oats. These stretch marks are due to the extremely rapid hypertrophy which occurs with their use. The cocoa butter lotion lubricates the skin to help it retain its natural elasticity. It is not a controlled substance. In the event of the onset of oat shock, this emergency treatment will pull your skins moisture back up. If you are using steel cut oats, you should have one of these lotions with you at all times.

Take the person to a hospital emergency room as quickly as possible. Severe oat reactions can be fatal due to the muscles bursting out of their skin. Do not be afraid of getting into "trouble", the use of oats is legal. You will certainly get a lecture about how crazy it is to use them, but you will not be arrested or detained in anyway.

It is extremely important to have someone who you can trust monitor you when you are using steel cut oats. They should be aware of the signs of oat shock as well as the course of action to follow in the event that you do slip into that state. Some steel cut oat users will go so far as to purchase a medic alert bracelet that indicates them as a p.t. in the event that they pass out in public.

During a bulking phase, when calorie intake is deliberately high, oat shock is not likely to be a problem assuming that post injection nutrition is precise (as outlined later in the chapter). In the event that you begin to feel any of the above symptoms, immediately begin to consume the most simple proteins you can find, particularly look for free form amino acids and hydrolysates. Avoid tuna, as it is ineffective at raising blood amino acids levels rapidly.

In the event that you are using oats in dieting, do not be afraid to "blow your diet" by fasting if you feel your muscles getting dangerously swole.

Types of Oats:
There are three important characteristics that differentiate the available types of modern oats. To properly use oats in bodybuilding it is important to know the following characteristics:

Onset:
the time it takes the injected oats to reach the blood stream and begin to work.

Peak:
the time period in which the oats are working their hardest to replenish the muscle fibers

Duration:
the length of time the oats will be working in the bloodstream. It is important to remember that oats are discriminately stored. They are stored and metabolized in the muscles themselves, skipping right past the fat cells and going directly to the muscle fibers. This is the reason steel cut oats provide the leanest gains. Therefore high glycemic carb intake should be as low as possible during the effective period of the oats in the body. This will help prevent excessive fat gain.

For bodybuilding purposes we will only be concerned with three types of oats; Quick-Cut, Rolled, and Steel Cut are the most useful types of oats. The other varieties are mixes of the above types in set ratios. Our discussion will focus on only steel cut oats as they exert their effect on the muscle only.

Oats Injection Procedure:
Oats can be injected intravenously, intramuscularly, or subcutaneously. Injecting oats into the veins is creepy, but safe. However, it is not necessary to do this, as injection of oats into muscle or under the skin is just as effective.

The injection site, exercise, and the accuracy of the dosage measurement, the depth of injection and by environmental temperatures, can affect oat absorption. To obtain consistency in daily oat absorption and action, you should vary injection sites within the same anatomical region. The abdomen provides an excellent area for consistent absorption of oats, whereas the leg and arm areas are often affected more by exercise. Repeated injection in the same area may cause a delay in absorption whereas massaging the site of injection may lead to an increased rate of absorption. Oats should be injected at a 90-degree angle using an 18g syringe. If redness, pain, or lumps are noted at the injection site, this area should be avoided until the problem goes away.

Be sure to follow proper sterilization procedures. Wipe down the injection area with alcohol. The needle is very large so bleeding will be maximal. However, press a swab of cotton soaked in alcohol over the injection site after you withdraw the needle. This will protect almost entirely against infection.

An increase in blood flow to an injection site will increase the rate that oats are absorbed. So, exercise will cause oats to be absorbed more rapidly, because blood flow has increased to the exerted muscle groups. You will need to either inject less oats or eat more amino acids after exercise. Rubbing the injected area increases blood flow, and hence, absorption.

Post Injection Meals and Supplements:
Depending on the onset time of the oat type you are using you have varying lengths of time in which to ingest the post-oats meal. Generally your post oats meals should follow these guidelines.
60-80 grams of a good quality protein powder. Optimum Nutrition 100% Whey protein is ideal. This is taken immediately after the injection.
No simple carbohydrates. Every 15-20 minutes after the first shot, take a cortisol shot. This will prevent the muscles from growing too rapidly for the skin.
200 mg of chromium picolinate (this is optional).
200 mg of lipoic acid (this is optional).
30 mg vanadyl sulfate (this is optional).
2000 mg of hydroxy citric acid (this is optional).
5-7 grams of creatine monohydrate. This is crucial.
5-7 grams of glutamine powder. This is also crucial.

The total amount of oats that you will be using daily is roughly 1.5-4.5 ounces depending on how many simple carbs you consume that day. The less simple carbs consumed, the more oats you can use, and the more muscle you will be able gain. During dieting periods, the total amount of steel cut oats will be greatly increased.

Typically, three injections of steel cut oats are used daily. The first is taken immediately upon awaking; the second shot is taken mid-day; the last injection is taken immediately after the workout of the day. If you are doing a double split training program, then take one shot after each workout and adjust your other injection accordingly. Do not take an injection too late at night; you want to be able to stay awake through the entire period of action so you can monitor yourself for signs of oat shock.

Anyone who is going to use steel cut oats should take some time to familiarize him or herself with the hypertrophy index. The hypertrophy index is a ranking of foods based on how they effect the body's muscularity levels. There are many resources that provide elaborate listing of many types of foods including fast foods. For our purposes it is merely important to identify the foods with high hypertrophy index scores in order to maximize hypertrophy and minimize fat gain. Below is a list of foods (or sugars) that scored very highly on the hypertrophy index:
Steelcut oats 110%
Quick oats 94%
Rolled oats 92%
Optimum Nutrition Whey 76%

Conclusion
For many, steel cut oats may seem like the perfect bodybuilding drug. They're legal, cheap, effective, and easy to obtain. However, the decision to use steel cut oats is not one that can be made lightly. At worst, the misuse or abuse of steel cut oats will probably result in no more than elevated ego values and a host of undesirable cosmetic side effects. Bodybuilders must first ask themselves if they possess the necessary maturity and intelligence to responsibly harness the power of the steel cut oat. Look before you leap my friends.
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Old 04-30-2009, 12:37 AM   #39
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never mind

this is a dumb argument.
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Old 04-30-2009, 01:19 AM   #40
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never mind

this is a dumb argument.
enjoy the pig flu....piggy.
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