ITT: falcon and thagr81 us bitch about physics, and road-raser loses his shift key.
09-03-2010, 11:57 AM
#2
It has to do with your body being held in place. When worn correctly, you can't slide up or down out of the harness. The lack of proper shoulder restraints on a factory 4 point is only good for forward momentum. The minute your car starts rolling who knows where you're body will find a way to slide through the 3 pt.
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09-03-2010, 12:36 PM
#3
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Nothing to do with acceleration.
It has to do with your body being held in place. When worn correctly, you can't slide up or down out of the harness. The lack of proper shoulder restraints on a factory 4 point is only good for forward momentum. The minute your car starts rolling who knows where you're body will find a way to slide through the 3 pt.
It has to do with your body being held in place. When worn correctly, you can't slide up or down out of the harness. The lack of proper shoulder restraints on a factory 4 point is only good for forward momentum. The minute your car starts rolling who knows where you're body will find a way to slide through the 3 pt.
... 
Do you even know what Physics is???I outlined the important parts since understanding how things work seems difficult for you:
"A seat belt or seatbelt, sometimes called a safety belt, is a safety harness designed to secure the occupant of a vehicle against harmful movement that may result from a collision or a sudden stop. As part of an overall automobile passive safety system, seat belts are intended to reduce injuries by stopping the wearer from hitting hard interior elements of the vehicle, or other passengers (the so-called second impact), are in the correct position for the airbag to deploy and prevent the passenger from being thrown from the vehicle. Seat belts also absorb energy by being designed to stretch during any sudden deceleration, so that there is less speed differential between the passenger's body and their vehicle interior, and also to spread the loading of impact on the passengers body."
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09-03-2010, 12:47 PM
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When did I say anything about sliding up and down out of a harness??? Yes, the likelihood of sliding out of the harness is greatly reduced by having a scrotch strap, but that's not the point I'm trying to make... You said that a 6 pt. harness does not stretch in one of your previous posts. I'm telling you that they do and using scientific fact to prove why they need to. I don't really care either way... Don't wear a helmet with a cage, hit your head on it in an accident and report back. Appartently you know more than me about the tensile strength of steel vs. skull....
Last edited by thagr81 us; 09-03-2010 at 12:59 PM.
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09-03-2010, 01:04 PM
#7
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In theory... Yes. Do they need to... Maybe. Do they... No. This goes for true rollbars, not those style bar things because as we all know, they do nothing anyways. A cage just adds a lot more area of tubing that you can slam your head on. We are just trying to look out of you man, but if you don't want to believe us then by all-means don't...
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09-03-2010, 01:06 PM
#8
This is getting stupid. When you get in an accident, your body continues to move forward at the same velocity as the car was traveling before impact. It does not instantaneously accelerate. The car instantaneously decelerates when it hits an object. The body starts to decelerate the moment it interacts with the safety harness. The safety harness stretches to absorb energy. Your body absorbs the rest across the cross sectional area of the belt, internal organ motion, compression, etc.
A: was wrong.
B: was right until you until you mentioned it started to accelerate; Now it too is wrong
A: was wrong.
B: was right until you until you mentioned it started to accelerate; Now it too is wrong
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09-03-2010, 01:10 PM
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Parentheses portion taken out to correct that fact... And you are saying what I was trying to say, just used the wrong term. Thanks. But I'm ghosting on this thread anyways now as I have nothing else to say to the OP...
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09-05-2010, 11:38 AM
#11
In theory... Yes. Do they need to... Maybe. Do they... No. This goes for true rollbars, not those style bar things because as we all know, they do nothing anyways. A cage just adds a lot more area of tubing that you can slam your head on. We are just trying to look out of you man, but if you don't want to believe us then by all-means don't...
But anywyas, after speaking with one of the "rules" people, if I run windowless I will be thrown into GT category. If I keep them I can keep running SP (Street Prepared) which is what the car is being built for.
So that settles it. Windows stay.
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09-05-2010, 01:35 PM
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i realize this is a lot to read but this guy banged his head on the bar with padding on it with no helmet and lived. sheer luck im sure.
none the less im sure it hurt like hell.
On November 20th, 2008, Sharka was hit from behind at 70 mph. Sharka went away on this date. Fortunately, I did not.
This may be slightly confusing to some of you who have just read a recent blog post and saw Sharka in all his glory in a recently dated photo. I rebuilt him. Better, faster, and stronger. That's what 90% of my blog is about. But that's skipping ahead.
In fall of 2008, I happened to be driving along the freeway on the way to work. Traffic stopped. I was at the end of the line. I put on my hazards and looked in my rearview, waiting for the next wave of traffic to come. About 30 seconds later, I saw a big Toyota truck crest the hill. She didn't slow down. She never slowed down. I remember thinking "no." She hit at full speed, 70 mph. And then I lost about 15 minutes of my life. When I came to, I was standing next to Sharka on the side of the road with my camera in my hands. I don't remember shooting any of the roadside photos. And I shot all of them 5 times in order - front, back, license plates of offending vehicles. Scary.
Sharka-the-97 had stock NA low-back seats, a Hard Dog rollbar, and SFI 45.1 rollbar padding. It's my belief that my life was saved by this combo. As you can see, the trunk went away. The damage stopped precisely where the rear legs of the rollbar connect to the frame, so I had a crush zone and a safe zone. But that rollbar would have surely killed or vegetated me without the padding installed.
With that awful low-back stock seat, my head had nowhere to go but into the rollbar. The SFI padding is hard stuff. HARD stuff. Anyone who's ever felt it in their hands knows what I'm saying. Well, when my head hit it, the padding felt like a soft pillow. It's the last thing I remember before waking up on the side of the road. The padding gave me enough protection to just give me a minor concussion via the rollbar moving toward my head at 70 mph.
I vowed to not put myself in that situation again, so I replaced those short-back seats on Sharka-the-95 with some Lotus Elise seats. They offer full head protection. Still, there's a chance of hitting the bar with the crazy forces a collision can give, so I put the same SFI padding on my new rollbar that saved my life the first time. Better safe than a vegetable.
PAD YOUR ROLLBARS! Hard Dog sells some great padding to go with their bars. Racer Parts Wholesale sells the stuff that saved my life. Get the good SFI stuff. You're worth it.
none the less im sure it hurt like hell.
On November 20th, 2008, Sharka was hit from behind at 70 mph. Sharka went away on this date. Fortunately, I did not.
This may be slightly confusing to some of you who have just read a recent blog post and saw Sharka in all his glory in a recently dated photo. I rebuilt him. Better, faster, and stronger. That's what 90% of my blog is about. But that's skipping ahead.
In fall of 2008, I happened to be driving along the freeway on the way to work. Traffic stopped. I was at the end of the line. I put on my hazards and looked in my rearview, waiting for the next wave of traffic to come. About 30 seconds later, I saw a big Toyota truck crest the hill. She didn't slow down. She never slowed down. I remember thinking "no." She hit at full speed, 70 mph. And then I lost about 15 minutes of my life. When I came to, I was standing next to Sharka on the side of the road with my camera in my hands. I don't remember shooting any of the roadside photos. And I shot all of them 5 times in order - front, back, license plates of offending vehicles. Scary.
Sharka-the-97 had stock NA low-back seats, a Hard Dog rollbar, and SFI 45.1 rollbar padding. It's my belief that my life was saved by this combo. As you can see, the trunk went away. The damage stopped precisely where the rear legs of the rollbar connect to the frame, so I had a crush zone and a safe zone. But that rollbar would have surely killed or vegetated me without the padding installed.
With that awful low-back stock seat, my head had nowhere to go but into the rollbar. The SFI padding is hard stuff. HARD stuff. Anyone who's ever felt it in their hands knows what I'm saying. Well, when my head hit it, the padding felt like a soft pillow. It's the last thing I remember before waking up on the side of the road. The padding gave me enough protection to just give me a minor concussion via the rollbar moving toward my head at 70 mph.
I vowed to not put myself in that situation again, so I replaced those short-back seats on Sharka-the-95 with some Lotus Elise seats. They offer full head protection. Still, there's a chance of hitting the bar with the crazy forces a collision can give, so I put the same SFI padding on my new rollbar that saved my life the first time. Better safe than a vegetable.
PAD YOUR ROLLBARS! Hard Dog sells some great padding to go with their bars. Racer Parts Wholesale sells the stuff that saved my life. Get the good SFI stuff. You're worth it.
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09-06-2010, 09:19 AM
#16
The vast majority of the collision impact - including the additional inertia of the driver - is absorbed by the front of the car. The seat belt keeps you attached to the seat, which is attached to the unibody. It seems that we are arguing what happens to your body with a harness when the car hits an object and the occupant's seat, and thus the harness, abruptly stops. Unfortunately, this is not the case. When the car hits an object head on, the front end of the car does not remain rigid. Deceleration of the occupant is not handled by the harness, regardless of whether it is 3-point, 6-point, or 178-point, but rather, the actual area being collided with (the front end in this case) decelerates the passenger compartment as it wads up into a little tiny ball. (Ok, so for posterity, there is actually an area in most seatbelts where a fold in the webbing is sewn together and comes apart, or 'loosens', when the occupant has been in an impact, but there's not any 'stretching' involved, it is more like a quick tear as the sewn threads violently rip apart as the impact occurs)
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09-06-2010, 10:48 AM
#17
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It came from this thread:
https://www.miataturbo.net/race-prep-75/cages-do-not-cut-door-51100/
But it was incredibly off topic, so I made it it's own BS thread. Which I can't edit and explain in the first post. Whoops.
https://www.miataturbo.net/race-prep-75/cages-do-not-cut-door-51100/
But it was incredibly off topic, so I made it it's own BS thread. Which I can't edit and explain in the first post. Whoops.
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