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Old 06-28-2011, 01:36 AM   #21
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So are you building a motorcycle or a trike?
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Old 06-28-2011, 01:37 AM   #22
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Old 06-28-2011, 10:20 AM   #23
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Florida Orange Peels Could Be Hydrogen Source

ORLANDO, Fla. - Florida, the nation's largest citrus producer, each year creates about 8 million tons of orange peel waste that mostly goes to cattle feed.

But researchers at a Fort Lauderdale-based energy company think some of those peels could be used to create power. Ener1 Inc. is working on a $1.1 million project to convert hydrogen-rich gas released from citrus peels into methanol to power fuel cells capable of providing about 75 percent of the power at an interstate rest stop in Florida.


I was surprised to learn a few years back that the containers and/or trailers carrying bulk oranges to juice plants and markets are open with expanded metal or perforated plastic sides because years ago unvented trailers had a problem with hydrogen gas build up and wee little fires and explosions. I would think that the oil from the oranges peels might also be combustible in a compression ignition engine a' la Rudolf Diesel. Tons of fresh orange peels are given away by the Tropicana juice plant in Bradenton every day to local farmers for cattle feed. 8 million tons a year? Certainly they could spare enough to make useable fuel for a fellow or two to run their automobiles on.

You want brainsorming? I'm in...
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Old 06-28-2011, 11:22 AM   #24
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not sure if this is a current or correct list of exempt vehicles:

Hybrid powered motor vehicles
2 wheel motorcycles
Diesel cars & trucks (1997 & older)
Diesel trucks (over 14,500 GVW)
Motor vehicles w/ 1 or 2 cylinders
2-stroke engines(excluding rotary)
Engines under 819cc
1975 model year vehicles and older
6 model years old (except for initial registration in California or change of ownership)



and on that note, my neighbor is seling a Citroen Mehari that needs some work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citro%C3%ABn_M%C3%A9hari

it is plastic-bodied and weighs around 1300 lbs.

the wikipedia article mentions something about the french army and electric conversion.

motor is a 600cc flat two and it has about 6 miles of suspension travel. when he slams on the brakes, the *** of the car rises about 18 inches.

chicks dig them:

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Old 06-28-2011, 11:22 AM   #25
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Batteries?

A **** load of these:


=win?
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Old 06-28-2011, 11:50 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
a $1.1 million project (...) capable of providing about 75 percent of the power at an interstate rest stop in Florida.
Really?

$1.1m to power 3/4 of a rest stop?

Suddenly I am a lot less excited about orange rinds.


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Originally Posted by y8s View Post
not sure if this is a current or correct list of exempt vehicles:

(list)
The official list of exempt vehicles (from the CA DMV website) is:
  • Hybrid
  • Gasoline powered 1975 year model or older
  • Diesel powered manufactured prior to 1998 or with a Gross Vehicle Weight rating (GVWR) of more than 14,000 lbs
  • Electric
  • Natural gas powered with a GVWR rating of more than 14,000 lbs.
  • Motorcycle
  • Trailer
Vehicles six years old or newer aren't required to be inspected, though you must still pay a "smog abatement fee," and vehicles four years old or newer are exempt on transfer, but must pay a "smog transfer fee."

Also, note that "motorcycles" can have three wheels.


Unfortunately, all of the above is only a get-out-of-jail-free card if the vehicle in question was originally manufactured and registered with the drivetrain in question. You can no easier take a modern passenger car and do a hybrid conversion on it without an SB100 certificate than you could install a 12 liter Caterpillar turbodiesel and run it on whale oil. (Although, wouldn't whale oil technically be a carbon-neutral biofuel, and thus "green"?)


******* ****.

(****...)
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Old 06-28-2011, 12:09 PM   #27
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Electric Citroen Mehari conversion conversation:
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums...ari-57845.html
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Old 06-28-2011, 12:18 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Unfortunately, all of the above is only a get-out-of-jail-free card if the vehicle in question was originally manufactured and registered with the drivetrain in question. You can no easier take a modern passenger car and do a hybrid conversion on it without an SB100 certificate than you could install a 12 liter Caterpillar turbodiesel and run it on whale oil. (Although, wouldn't whale oil technically be a carbon-neutral biofuel, and thus "green"?)


******* ****.

(****...)
so blur the lines of legality. take the mehari (for example), get it running on megasquirt as-is and add EV power to the rear wheels and just put a tarp over it during inspections.

you're not removing anything per se.
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Old 06-29-2011, 01:05 PM   #29
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So I've been frame-shopping for a couple of days, and I finally settled on a donor chassis, the Columbia Northway FE.



It was on clearance for $230 at Sports Authority. Not a particularly high-end piece of machinery (no disc brakes, undamped front suspension, cheap tires) but the materials quality does seem to be at least a step or two above what I was seeing at the department stores, and it seems reasonably well put-together. No rough edges on the machined parts, and at least of the derailleurs seem to be of reasonable quality. Steel frame, too. I don't trust aluminum bikes.

I've got a set of Michelin Pilot City tires on order, along with the electric portion of the drivetrain. Both are shipping from CA, so it shouldn't take long.

Last edited by Joe Perez; 06-29-2011 at 05:32 PM. Reason: schpelling
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Old 06-29-2011, 01:17 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
Joe, take a look at some of the e-bike builds on the endless-sphere website. particularly those by "liveforphysics" like this:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/vie...hp?f=28&t=8347

I love how that thread ended.
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Old 06-29-2011, 01:21 PM   #31
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FTL. I was seriously looking forward to a hybrid MOTORcycle from you.
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Old 06-29-2011, 02:27 PM   #32
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son, i am disappoint.

also, during "clean up week" where everyone puts dumpster sized trash heaps at their curb you can often find significant portions of bicycles.
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Old 06-29-2011, 05:31 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curly View Post
FTL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
son, i am disappoint.
Really?

That's the best you guys can come up with?

I was expecting something a bit more along the lines of:




In all seriousness, though, this is a real thread. You are in fact looking at the foundation of an ethanol-fueled plugin hybrid, folks were just jumping to conclusions about the scope of the project.

The reality of the situation is that I'm in my mid 30s, work at a mostly sedentary job, am slightly overweight, and I need to get some damn exercise. Trouble is, I just can't bring myself to allocate time out of my day for "exercise" as a discrete task. It seems so wasteful. So I figure "Well, I only live five miles from work over good roads, so why not bicycle commute?" This kills two birds with one stone- I get to work, and I get exercise at the same time.

Unfortunately, this is SoCal, which means the terrain ain't precisely level. You flatlanders from the East probably don't have a lot of 15-20% grades on your daily commute, but around these parts it's all up and down. I tried doing this unassisted once a couple of years back, and I'll be frank: I'm such a lazy-*** that I couldn't even make it up the first hill from my garage without feeling like I was going to die, which of course left nothing at all in reserve for hills # 2 through 10.

So this is my solution. Take a common, ordinary bike, leave the crank and chaindrive completely intact, and augment it with enough electrical power to act as a booster for hill-climbing. This should allow me to actually get started with this venture without dropping dead of a heart attack, and ease into a workout routine which, hopefully, will allow me to rely less and less on the electric wind as time goes on.
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Old 06-29-2011, 05:54 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
I tried doing this unassisted once a couple of years back, and I'll be frank: I'm such a lazy-*** that I couldn't even make it up the first hill from my garage without feeling like I was going to die, which of course left nothing at all in reserve for hills # 2 through 10.
I wouldn't feel too bad, running up a hill is easier then riding IMO. But what about when you get to work and your sweaty? Have you thought about just walking to work?
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Old 06-29-2011, 06:02 PM   #35
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Bicycles are common to societies that are strangled by socialism and communism so being relegated to one in California makes sense.
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Old 06-29-2011, 06:06 PM   #36
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But what about when you get to work and you're sweaty?
Unscented baby wipes.

We are on the coast-side of the mountains, so the weather here is usually quite cool in the mornings, even in the height of summer; 60s to low 70s typically. And the dress code at the lab is sufficiently sloppy that most of us wear shorts anyway. I shall simply pack a clean shirt and carry it with me each morning.


Quote:
Have you thought about just walking to work?
Yes, but only in the same way that I have thought about being disemboweled by a pack of zombie velociraptors with AIDS. In other words, it is something that I suspect I would find to be unpleasant and do not wish to experience.
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Old 06-29-2011, 06:16 PM   #37
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Bicycles are common to societies that are strangled by socialism and communism so being relegated to one in California makes sense.
Haha. I guess my ancestry doesn't help the stereotype much, either.

(Actually, have you seen the cars they drive in Cuba? There's some pretty serious classic American iron down there.)

Don't worry, it's not like I'm getting rid of the car. I just need to try this out and see if it's something that's going to be a practical alternative to a gym membership. (I've never understood the concept of running while standing still.)

And, dude, I'm building a bicycle using a three phase motor and lithium-mangenese batteries. Discounting the rider, the vehicle itself should have a higher power-to-weight ratio than a Koenigseggisseggggnignigsegigisegggg. How is that not cool?
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Old 06-29-2011, 06:19 PM   #38
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Damn. I was hoping you'd make a cool hybrid and pioneer the much needed low locost kit using stock subframes, a-arms, and steering. Oh well.
This needs to be mass produced. It uses the front and rear miata subframes.

Name:  IMG_0759.jpg
Views: 21
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Build log on locostusa here: http://www.locostusa.com/forums/view...iata+subframes
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Old 06-29-2011, 06:28 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
So I've been frame-shopping for a couple of days, and I finally settled on a donor chassis, the Columbia Northway FE.



It was on clearance for $230 at Sports Authority. Not a particularly high-end piece of machinery (no disc brakes, undamped front suspension, cheap tires) but the materials quality does seem to be at least a step or two above what I was seeing at the department stores, and it seems reasonably well put-together. No rough edges on the machined parts, and at least of the derailleurs seem to be of reasonable quality. Steel frame, too. I don't trust aluminum bikes.

I've got a set of Michelin Pilot City tires on order, along with the electric portion of the drivetrain. Both are shipping from CA, so it shouldn't take long.
Funny, I've been dropping off 20' cliffs on my alum bike for years and it seems to still be in one piece...
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Old 06-29-2011, 07:00 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
In all seriousness, though, this is a real thread. You are in fact looking at the foundation of an ethanol-fueled plugin hybrid, folks were just jumping to conclusions about the scope of the project.

The reality of the situation is that I'm in my mid 30s, work at a mostly sedentary job, am slightly overweight, and I need to get some damn exercise. Trouble is, I just can't bring myself to allocate time out of my day for "exercise" as a discrete task. It seems so wasteful. So I figure "Well, I only live five miles from work over good roads, so why not bicycle commute?" This kills two birds with one stone- I get to work, and I get exercise at the same time.

Unfortunately, this is SoCal, which means the terrain ain't precisely level. You flatlanders from the East probably don't have a lot of 15-20% grades on your daily commute, but around these parts it's all up and down. I tried doing this unassisted once a couple of years back, and I'll be frank: I'm such a lazy-*** that I couldn't even make it up the first hill from my garage without feeling like I was going to die, which of course left nothing at all in reserve for hills # 2 through 10.

So this is my solution. Take a common, ordinary bike, leave the crank and chaindrive completely intact, and augment it with enough electrical power to act as a booster for hill-climbing. This should allow me to actually get started with this venture without dropping dead of a heart attack, and ease into a workout routine which, hopefully, will allow me to rely less and less on the electric wind as time goes on.
My wife has an ankle with several busted tendons and rides ~6 miles each way with big hills from northern virginia into the middle of fat cat central to her corner office on K street.

If you have a shower at work, then you dont need the motor.

Just get pedal clips and a light bike.

oh and also: dont eat seconds, fatty.
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