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Old 01-21-2008, 10:53 AM   #1
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Default Economic Stimulus package?

So what do you guys think of the proposed stimulus package. Will we see any money out of it or is it another pipe dream?
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Old 01-21-2008, 11:08 AM   #2
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“Letting Americans keep more of their money should increase consumer spending” -GWB

Is it just me, or should letting Americans keep more or their money increase consumer savings / investment?

They're quoting figures such as "up to $800 for individuals." I don't know about you, but $800 isn't going to get me to suddenly go out and buy a new house / Ford / etc.
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Old 01-21-2008, 12:58 PM   #3
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They're quoting figures such as "up to $800 for individuals." I don't know about you, but $800 isn't going to get me to suddenly go out and buy a new house / Ford / etc.
It is true that $800.00 will not allow me to go out and buy a new house, or new car. But the addition of $800 to my bank account would allow me to make purchases that I might not make otherwise. Like a new exhaust system for my car, or a new TV for the house. My purchase, along with others that now have some extra cash to spend, MIGHT allow the retailer I chose to deal with, keep his house, or hire another employee. It’s called the trickle down theory, and it works.
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Old 01-21-2008, 01:09 PM   #4
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It’s called the trickle down theory, and it works.
No the trickle down theory is why Multi Billionaires don't pay more in taxes. Thats why they get the tax break.

I think its ignorant to believe that $800 is everyones pocket is going to save the economy. The problems are way bigger than that. $800 will not solve the decrease in consumer confidence, or the manufacturing decrease.

Its a bad time to be hemorrhaging money in a war, decreased taxes, and now this "stimulus package"
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Old 01-21-2008, 01:25 PM   #5
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No the trickle down theory is why Multi Billionaires don't pay more in taxes. Thats why they get the tax break.
That's crap. And if you really, honestly, think that "the rich" get all the breaks, you can't really have any kind of discussion about economics or taxes.

The vast majority of the American population are hand-to-mouth consumers. Maybe the "pennies from heaven" will enable them to chew down debt they have already accumulated, but I doubt it. They're gonna buy a set of fresh Nikes for little Gershawn because won't he be the tightest little G in 2nd grade yo.

I don't necessarily think this is a perfect way to jump start the economy... inflation and all that. Generally, economies are best left to themselves. But face it, this is election year pandering.

And if I can spin that pandering into that 60" plasma or S1 turbo kit, why not go for it.
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Old 01-21-2008, 01:34 PM   #6
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i wonder how good ol boy bush is going to pay for his next war.

oh and the 800 may not go out and buy a ps3 but it might just make it into a cheap investment in the stock market.
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Old 01-21-2008, 01:37 PM   #7
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It just really offends me that the assumption is being made by both economists and the administration that if you give the average American $800, the first thing they will do is go and spend it.

And the worst part is that they're probably right- witness the number of companies offering "instant tax refund" services, which basically consist of writing an unsecured loan against the anticipated tax refund of the consumer, generally with an absurdly high rate of interest.

Actually, it scares me to think that for a lot of folks, $800 is actually a meaningful amount of money. We've become such a short-sighted lot...

I'm really tempted to start a grassroots movement urging Americans to spend the economic relief package entirely on gambling, booze, and hookers.
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Old 01-21-2008, 01:46 PM   #8
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there's a lot folks out there that aren't spending hours on the internet discussing things like this and won't really know why or care why the money showed up.
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Old 01-21-2008, 01:51 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Loki047 View Post
No the trickle down theory is why Multi Billionaires don't pay more in taxes. Thats why they get the tax break.

I think its ignorant to believe that $800 is everyones pocket is going to save the economy. The problems are way bigger than that. $800 will not solve the decrease in consumer confidence, or the manufacturing decrease.

Its a bad time to be hemorrhaging money in a war, decreased taxes, and now this "stimulus package"
I don't think the economy NEEDS saving, the Fed can handle most of the economies short term problems w/o the Executive Branch or Legislative Branch intervention. Our economy is big enough to handle most minor problems and hiccups. This package is politics, but the majority of Americans want to see this kind of action from the President/Congress.

I don't think this is exactly hemorrhaging either.

As far as will $800/household help the economy, sure in the short term it will. An increase in money supply will increase money velocity, there will be an increase in the aggregate consumer demand. Not on the scale or with the accuracy that the Fed can do it though, so it boils back down to politics. It is the nature of Washington.

As far as the economy needing saving, we're still at Full Employment. Give me a break.

Chris
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Old 01-21-2008, 01:52 PM   #10
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Ex. "Yayyy honey, free money. Let's go buy that 32" refurbished LCD TV we wanted but couldn't afford due to our excessive holiday spending!"

I hate that our government thinks something like this is going to help stimulate the economy for more than a week of frivelous spending.

On a side note, Alaska residents get a permanent fund every year. This year it was like $1k, and I know many married couples that live off their permanent fund and something like trapping year round. The use the PF to buy food, and a small trade to buy other things. Who here would like to live off buckets of grain and vitamins as well as the moose and caribou you are able to kill each year?
Just some fun information for people in the lower 48 that have never spent time in Alaska.
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Old 01-21-2008, 02:11 PM   #11
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Didn't the last Goobermint check for $300 result in LESS consumer spending than they had hoped for? Was W thinking more would make it happen?

I bet you see a large portion of recipients squirrel that **** away like winter nuts.

And then the prime will drop to silly levels again and I'll buy a house for $800 down.
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Old 01-21-2008, 02:32 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
I'm really tempted to start a grassroots movement urging Americans to spend the economic relief package entirely on gambling, booze, and hookers.
Joe, i dont think you have to, the average american will do that anyways, and some of it will go to scratch off tickets...
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Old 01-21-2008, 02:50 PM   #13
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How about instead of giving everyone a few hundred measly bucks (and who knows how much to the super-rich and big corporations), they put that into research for alternative energy sources so we can stop sending BILLIONS and BILLIONS every year to the middle east. I'm sure that a few sultans will be able to do without a new Veyron or mega-yacht this year.
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Old 01-21-2008, 03:00 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Al Hounos View Post
How about instead of giving everyone a few hundred measly bucks (and who knows how much to the super-rich and big corporations), they put that into research for alternative energy sources so we can stop sending BILLIONS and BILLIONS every year to the middle east. I'm sure that a few sultans will be able to do without a new Veyron or mega-yacht this year.
Disagree... alternative fuels is not the answer. Not yet.
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Old 01-21-2008, 03:10 PM   #15
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oh boy, more ads where GM can claim their cars are vegetarian!

(we know they're only 85% vegetarian...)

(we also know that GM is desperate like a toothless *****)
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Old 01-21-2008, 03:11 PM   #16
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this is all just another political scam meant to take focus away from the real problems...if they really want to help the economy they would lower the ammount of taxes they take out and let people keep more money to begin with...this is just some BS politics scheme
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Old 01-21-2008, 03:19 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by kyle242gt View Post
That's crap. And if you really, honestly, think that "the rich" get all the breaks, you can't really have any kind of discussion about economics or taxes.
Who did bush give the last tax break to, and why?

But i guess we can't talk about it. Maybe you just like to keep your head in the sand. :fm:
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Old 01-21-2008, 03:53 PM   #18
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Who did bush give the last tax break to, and why?

But i guess we can't talk about it. Maybe you just like to keep your head in the sand. :fm:
You mean the creation of the 10% income tax bracket? Or the expansion of the 15% tax bracket? Or the child tax credit? Or the retirement savings credit? Or the tax-free dividends and capital gains for people in the 10% tax bracket? Child and dependent care credit? Nobody making much over $100K gets any love there.

The qualified dividends being treated as capital gains for tax purposes is a little sketchy, until you clue into the fact that the LTCG rates for qual divs encourages people to invest in stocks that pay dividends, and encourages corps to pay dividends in order to attract investors.

Go ahead, keep trying. I do this **** for a living and know whereof I speak.
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Old 01-21-2008, 04:02 PM   #19
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The government needs to stop trying to help people that are too stupid to help themselves.
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Old 01-21-2008, 04:13 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by kyle242gt View Post
You mean the creation of the 10% income tax bracket? Or the expansion of the 15% tax bracket? Or the child tax credit? Or the retirement savings credit? Or the tax-free dividends and capital gains for people in the 10% tax bracket? Child and dependent care credit? Nobody making much over $100K gets any love there.

The qualified dividends being treated as capital gains for tax purposes is a little sketchy, until you clue into the fact that the LTCG rates for qual divs encourages people to invest in stocks that pay dividends, and encourages corps to pay dividends in order to attract investors.

Go ahead, keep trying. I do this **** for a living and know whereof I speak.
Are you telling me that the richest 1% didnt get the largest tax break?
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