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Old 01-23-2008, 03:10 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by tvalenziano View Post
...Its one thing for the sales force to go crazy and make bank while they can...but no one up top saw this coming???
You assume that the people "up top" are looking out for common folk like us???

The elite make money during booms, and make money during busts. The deeper the bust, the more money they make in the next boom. Why do you think of all the presidential candidates, only one, Ron Paul, has warned of an economic crisis? And he's been warning of this since ~2005, when the Fed stopped publishing the 'M3' monetary statistic.

Have you heard of the CFR? Do you think it's a coincidence that only 3 presidential candidates are NOT CFR members, and that these same 3 are the only 3 anti-war candidates? The CFR are an elite quasi government "think tank" with very exclusive membership. Their members include the board of directors of Big Oil, Big Defense, Big Finance, Big Pharma, the Federal Reserve banks, and coporate media, including media personalities such as Dan Rather, Bill Moyers, and Jim Lehrer. Among those boards there's a lot of overlap. At that level there is a revolving door between Big Business and Government - look at Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Al Gore, Kerry, Edwars. They are all members. These are the people that *own* this country.

Most of top positions of government have CFR people. Only 2 presidents since the 20s were not members.. and those 2 were surrounded by members. Even the candidates those presidents defeated in their elections were members. Despite having elected officials as members, rubbing elbows with the biggest power brokers in the nation, their meetings are very secretive - even though media personalities are members too!

Over the decades there have been many leaks of their agenda... these leaks have been very very consistent.

If you dig up the charter and history of the CFR, you will find disgusting stuff that people summarily dismiss as "conspiracy theory". That is such bullshit because the evidence is overwhelming. Why is it people can accept systemic corruption in a county where the judge, sheriff and mayor are corrupt, but not at the national level? It's not a conspiracy, it's just a bunch of rich ******** who want to screw the rest of us.

Here's a nice little video about the CFR and their control over the corporate media. I have issues about this vid but it's pretty good:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...55652046262625

And here's a good article:
http://www.augustreview.com/issues/g...ey?_200511146/

Quote:
The Global Elite: Who are they?

There are two common misconceptions held by those who are critical of globalism.

The first error is that there is a very small group of people who secretly run the world with all-powerful and unrestrained dictatorial powers. The second error is that there is a large amorphous and secret organization that runs the world. .........
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Old 01-23-2008, 03:22 AM   #62
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Yea, i was talking more about the lender "higher ups" than govt, although they were getting the green light as well...
Simple solution would have been for the lenders to not come up with ridiculous programs for buyers...regardless of how cheap money was, people with bad credit, hell even NO credit were able to "qualify" for NO down payment purchases or 100percent refis...U cant get a car or even a credit card like that, but lets give the guy a 500k mtg because hes willign to take a higher rate than we paying on the money...
Like i said the sales force ate it up, but it shouldve never even hit the market and that alone wouldve avoided ALOT of this, not all..but alot..
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Old 01-23-2008, 10:11 AM   #63
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JasonC if this monetary conspiracy is true, why do we borrow from China?
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Old 01-23-2008, 12:52 PM   #64
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These are 2 different things.

The debt based money creation system, which was invented in the 1700s, is a means for the banks to in effect heavily tax the middle class. Today the net effect is it confers a *massive* subsidy on the entire financial industry. Try and look at how and how much hedge funds make money, for example.

Regarding borrowing from China.

The USA is an empire and instead of directly taxing subservient states it does so by means of the dollar hegemony - that the dollar is the de facto world currency, and is inflated at will (the hegemony which BTW is showing signs of unravelling into a dollar collapse). The borrowing from China in effect means that there is a net flow of wealth from China to the US. Part of the way the dollar hegemony is maintained is through the deal the US made with the Saudis in the 70s For more details see this book. It details the mechanisms by which the IMF and WB screw over the 3rd world:
Confessions of an Economic Hitman:
http://www.amazon.com/Confessions-Ec...1106757&sr=1-1
Here's a summary of the book:
http://www.democracynow.org/2004/11/...onomic_hit_man

If you want to take the red pill, I will show you how deep the rabbit hole goes....

In my experience young people can swallow the truth much easier than old farts like aeagles on m.net. Old farts can't take the truth when they start seeing that they've been living a lie their whole lives.
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Old 01-23-2008, 12:54 PM   #65
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well heres my next question. What do we do?
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Old 01-23-2008, 01:03 PM   #66
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Congress passed the Federal Reserve Act, Congress can repeal the Federal Reserve Act.

Ron Paul wants to repeal it. Vote for him in the primaries. Find out the primary rules in your state, if you have to be registered Rep'n to vote for him.

Even if Ron Paul doesn't win, the message is bigger than the man. Listen to the philosophies he espouses. Spread the message. The 1st American Revolution against tyranny was won with <2% of the population. It won't take a majority to win the 2nd, it will only take a significant minority. We still have the legislative process. Gandhi said "A small vocal minority can effect great change", and he also said "Be the change you want to see in the world". There will be a tipping point because of the ease of spread of information due to the internet.

Start by watching "Freedom to Fascism":
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...80303867390173
Spread the word. A significant minority can pressure their congressmen to always vote for freedom, free markets, small government, and national sovereignty. Several times Ron Paul has sponsored a bill to repeal the Fed - if his fellow congressmen can be pressured to support it, it will happen.
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Old 01-23-2008, 01:43 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
The debt based money creation system, which was invented in the 1700s, is a means for the banks to in effect heavily tax the middle class. Today the net effect is it confers a *massive* subsidy on the entire financial industry. Try and look at how and how much hedge funds make money, for example.
This thread has taken a tinfoil-hat turn. Rather than telling us to figure it out ourselves, take a clue from JoeBux and explain it to the masses.

The way I see it, the Fed loans money to the banks, who profit on the transaction. The banks also borrow money from depositors, and make a smaller profit.

This profit, they use to employ people and reward investors. I have yet to see a corporation walking down the street going nomnomnom and devouring the middle class.
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Old 01-23-2008, 02:15 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post

In my experience young people can swallow the truth much easier than old farts like aeagles on m.net. Old farts can't take the truth when they start seeing that they've been living a lie their whole lives.
its not just that, its the general population that can't take the truth. people are always saying that these are all "conspiracy theories" and we are all "crazy" for doubting the establishment. hopefully the thruth behind all of the coruption will come out sooner rather than later. look into some of the alex jones videos too
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Old 01-23-2008, 02:32 PM   #69
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kyle,

Try understanding the Compound Interest Paradox. Let me know what part you don't understand.

Check out these books on the history of the creation of the Fed:
"The Case Against the Fed" by Rothbard
"The Creature from Jekyll Island" by Griffin

Tell me, what's so tin foil hatty about that?
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Old 01-23-2008, 02:37 PM   #70
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bryan,
Alex Jones covers a lot of stuff; some stuff I'm not sure is true because I haven't seen consistent evidence.

The stuff I believe is true is basically what is on here:
http://www.augustreview.com/issues/g...ey?_200511146/

Again, nothing tin foil hatty here. Basically a bunch of rich ******** who want to own the world's largest corporations, and sincerely believe that one world government is good for them and for us:

Quote:
The Global Elite: Who are they?

There are two common misconceptions held by those who are critical of globalism.

The first error is that there is a very small group of people who secretly run the world with all-powerful and unrestrained dictatorial powers. The second error is that there is a large amorphous and secret organization that runs the world.
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Old 01-23-2008, 02:49 PM   #71
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Too bad there is not a Ron Paul whose pro choice
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Old 01-23-2008, 02:52 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Try understanding the Compound Interest Paradox. Let me know what part you don't understand.
From: http://fskrealityguide.blogspot.com/...t-paradox.html
Quote:
The net effect of your loan, viewed in isolation, is that the total money supply has DECREASED by $347,514. You collected $300,000 and repaid $647,514.
Kindly bear in mind I'm just a regular dude... but I don't see how the money has decreased. The bank collects it, and uses it to either repay its debts to the fed (which would be a reduction, but only a reduction in a previous influx) or depositors (not a reduction) or it's used to pay expenses and shareholders. Neither of those are reductions in cash supply. As I read this stuff, I get the tinfoil hatty feeling: "OMG corps are teh evil!".
Quote:
But what effort did the bank spend to create the $300,000 it gave you? The answer is: no effort at all.
I agree 100%, they're not adding value in the JoeBux sense.
Quote:
In such a system, the banks will eventually own everything. That's because the banks were careful to make sure they control all the major media. Their control is hidden via trusts and preferred voting shares.
Nothing tinfoil there, huh?

The banking industry is not adding value, but they're providing (for a fee) the huge cash supplies necessary for large-scale industry and economic expansion.
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Old 01-23-2008, 02:57 PM   #73
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kyle, when a loan is repaid to the Fed, the money is destroyed; both principal and interest.

Regarding the media, watch this:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...55652046262625

When I posted FSK's blog, it was because he explained the mechanics of the Paradox well, not because he believed in control of the media. Do not fall for the Strawman Fallacy.
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Old 01-23-2008, 03:01 PM   #74
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Loki, being an obgyn, Ron Paul is personally "pro life", but being a strict constitutionalist, says the Federal gov't as per the constitution, doesn't have the authority to rule on it. It should be up to the individual states.

Re: prolife vs prochoice - the question isn't really about woman's vs. fetus' rights. The real question is, at what point is the fetus a human being with constitutional protection to life? Personally I think it's the same as the legal definition of people on life support - brain waves. I don't know when it is, maybe 3 or 4 months. The abortion thing IMO is blown up out of proportion, turning into "woman" vs "fetus".

loki, do you not realize that you might be acting as a single issue voter? The nation is divided (divide and conquer), by the meadia playing up lots of single issues. The Rep vs Dem is a farce.
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Old 01-23-2008, 03:08 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
kyle, when a loan is repaid to the Fed, the money is destroyed; both principal and interest.
Is the bulk of the repayment sent to the Fed or the banks' depositors?

If the loan principal came from the depositors, and the interest is destroyed, no shrinkage.

If the loan principal came from the Fed, and the principal is destroyed, no shrinkage.
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Old 01-23-2008, 04:33 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
loki, do you not realize that you might be acting as a single issue voter? The nation is divided (divide and conquer), by the meadia playing up lots of single issues. The Rep vs Dem is a farce.
I have no problem being a single issue voter, but thats not the case here.

When it comes to situations of personal freedoms i am a single issue voter.

Unfortunately Iraq is a mess. We need a better foreign policy, but we cant leave now. Not because everyone needs freedom or we have to win. Because its our responsibility after ******* the region up worse than it was. And yes its worse.

Bush is going to **** up the Middle East Peace process more than just letting nothing happen for his 8 years. Yes 8 years of ignoring it was better than his meddling.


And abortion existed during the time the constitution was written but no one seems to remember that.
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Old 01-23-2008, 04:40 PM   #77
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And there is a difference between Dem and Repub.

Human Rights (or Gay Rights whatever you want to call it)
Separation of Church and State
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Old 01-23-2008, 05:53 PM   #78
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And look what they DO the same:

- Bigger more powerful government, with more centralized power
- More laws and more regulations
- More government spending
- Less individual liberty
- More war
- More welfare
- Less national sovereignty
- More debt
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Old 01-23-2008, 05:55 PM   #79
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Is the bulk of the repayment sent to the Fed or the banks' depositors?

If the loan principal came from the depositors, and the interest is destroyed, no shrinkage.

If the loan principal came from the Fed, and the principal is destroyed, no shrinkage.
The shrinkage comes from the Fed destroying money payed as principal and interest.

Watch the google vid "Money as Debt" to understand the mechanics of Fractional Reserve Banking.

The 2nd FSK link I posted in the m.net site explains in more detail how the mechanics of the Paradox.
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Old 01-23-2008, 05:55 PM   #80
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Right but most people aren't effected by that (atleast they aren't directly, cept for taxes) and therefore don't care.
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