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Old 08-26-2012, 06:47 PM   #41
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Stop being delusional: if you want an n/a track car by all means build one, but don't kid yourself about basic bolt ons netting 180whp. It takes a fully built motor and tons of trick parts. Otherwise you end up with like 130-140 tops.
Emilio himself admitted in Crushers thread that this was no ordinary run of the mill motor iirc. That it was very 'spensive.
I mean if you want reliability and 180whp just throw a failtrex on there. But I've a feeling that you won't be able to do 130whp after doing 2xx for so long. Torque is addicting. At least to me.
I have an 11.5:1 engine with a knifed crank and MS intake cam, square top, RB header, and a tuning god to do the tune, it's going to make more than 150whp. I this engine already made 180whp when RHarris had it in his yellow car and he said the tune wasn't great. If this works and I'm fairly happy, I can send a VVT head to Endyne for magic and possibly make more. I'm at a different place in life right now, making half the money I did when I built the car, I think this is the right way. If it's not, I can swap in the turbo **** for no cost other than sweat.
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Old 08-26-2012, 06:49 PM   #42
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Fair enough. Can't wait to see numbers and hopefully be proven wrong.
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Old 08-26-2012, 07:59 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Stop being delusional: if you want an n/a track car by all means build one, but don't kid yourself about basic bolt ons netting 180whp. It takes a fully built motor and tons of trick parts. Otherwise you end up with like 130-140 tops.
Emilio himself admitted in Crushers thread that this was no ordinary run of the mill motor iirc. That it was very 'spensive.
I mean if you want reliability and 180whp just throw a failtrex on there. But I've a feeling that you won't be able to do 130whp after doing 2xx for so long. Torque is addicting. At least to me.
Considering CSP cars have less prep than that and make into the 160's I dont doubt it. Internally stock 99 or VVT plus flat top + tuned length intake + rb header + exaust + tune = 150 wheel all day long.
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Old 08-26-2012, 08:10 PM   #44
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I just want to clear something up with that motor. I never made 180WHP with it, but I believed it to be possible with a well made purpose built VVT head. I made 155whp with a tune that left a lot on the table. I think that it can be done, but cams, headwork, valves, springs, and the head itself was going to cost $2500+ and I just didn't want to do that at the time.

To do that motor justice, you really need a VVT head and MS3. You will get a huge bump in torque, even though it has a pretty good amount of torque already.
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Old 08-26-2012, 08:43 PM   #45
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160. 180. Whatever.

If the turbo setup is this frustrating, ditch it. You then have two options. Super or NA. Super is off the table. So go NA. Is a 20WHP-on-the-internet argument going to change how fun the car is to drive with the existing NA setup?

* I would ask (and you have probably already had this conversation) is if a less restricitve turbine might reduce temps and thus increase longevity for the car and your wallet at the expense of a bit of transient response. Your setup is not exactly a T-25 though, so IDK how much is on the table there.

** Water injection? A moderate flow rate could last through a 20 minute session and lower EGTs/increase happiness.
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Old 08-26-2012, 08:52 PM   #46
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Holy crap I didnt even recognize Hustler without his supercharger avatar on.
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Old 08-26-2012, 09:11 PM   #47
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My girlfriend made you a new avatar:

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Old 08-26-2012, 09:34 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by hustler View Post
You have one of those low-maintenance turbo set-ups, how's it working for you?
It's not working out well at all for me lol, that's why i was wondering what those other guys do that keep their cars working.
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Old 08-26-2012, 09:45 PM   #49
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I ditched a healthy SC setup years ago for N/A and havent looked back. The car is dead nuts reliable and still plenty fast.
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Old 08-26-2012, 11:13 PM   #50
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Crushers motor is expensive because it does a lot more than just make 170 whp.The torque and mpg it has are beyond what's possible with just bolt-ons.
Just making 170whp isn't that expensive and you can do it on pump gas.

I have read posts on forums from three different continents, all claiming BS on the power we report. It's kinda funny. I post approved dyno's from a national racing organization. Simple facts. I can only guess that the experts have either never tried to build a cost effective N/A motor or maybe tried and failed. The recipe is simple and it works.

m.net post with some cliff notes on N/A builds

MX-5 Miata Forum - View Single Post - [NA] Most HP with a Naturally aspirated engine?***Read me! People as this every day!***
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Old 08-27-2012, 01:15 AM   #51
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Let me get this straight... you cracked a manifold and you are giving up? People are supporting this decision? Seriously??


Blow the sand out of your vagina, zip up your man suit, get that bitch welded up and keep slaying BMWs and Porches.
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Old 08-27-2012, 02:18 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by rharris19 View Post
I just want to clear something up with that motor. I never made 180WHP with it, but I believed it to be possible with a well made purpose built VVT head. I made 155whp with a tune that left a lot on the table. I think that it can be done, but cams, headwork, valves, springs, and the head itself was going to cost $2500+ and I just didn't want to do that at the time.

To do that motor justice, you really need a VVT head and MS3. You will get a huge bump in torque, even though it has a pretty good amount of torque already.
I'm going to run it the way you sold it, if it makes 150whp, I'm happy. If it makes 130whp, I'm not "happy" but I don't really care either. When I have some time it will get a VVT head and I plan to pick-up MS3 when Reverant makes it available. Whatever it makes with that stuff is whatever it makes.

Thanks for selling it to John so he could sell it to me.
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Old 08-27-2012, 02:23 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
Crushers motor is expensive because it does a lot more than just make 170 whp.The torque and mpg it has are beyond what's possible with just bolt-ons.
Just making 170whp isn't that expensive and you can do it on pump gas.

I have read posts on forums from three different continents, all claiming BS on the power we report. It's kinda funny. I post approved dyno's from a national racing organization. Simple facts. I can only guess that the experts have either never tried to build a cost effective N/A motor or maybe tried and failed. The recipe is simple and it works.

m.net post with some cliff notes on N/A builds

MX-5 Miata Forum - View Single Post - [NA] Most HP with a Naturally aspirated engine?***Read me! People as this every day!***
Will I be severely detonation limited on 91 or 93 octane with this 11.5:1 compression ratio?
I've made 120whp on a 1.6 with bolt-ons and good injectors, 130 on a stock 99. I think when we compare to the 99 engine, the header is good for ~10hp, the square top is good for another 10hp, and then we have the increased compression ratio so 150whp is totally doable, I predict more. I plan to get it on the dyno this weekend if I can get an exhaust made on Friday. I'm getting excited about this.

I suspect that when it comes to the 150whp NA class that either idiots are tuning the cars or owners are sandbagging. I'm a lonely virgin so I will post everything I do on the interweb to make friends and hopefully less the tears.
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Old 08-27-2012, 02:45 AM   #54
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I suspect that when it comes to the 150whp NA class that either idiots are tuning the cars or owners are sandbagging. I'm a lonely virgin so I will post everything I do on the interweb to make friends and hopefully less the tears.
Holy ****. Is the old Hustler starting to come back?!?
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Old 08-27-2012, 02:55 AM   #55
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Holy ****. Is the old Hustler starting to come back?!?
I thought I made a post about that. Basically, Ambien can cause severe, acute depression so I stopped taking it, lol.
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Old 08-27-2012, 02:57 AM   #56
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Blow the sand out of your vagina, zip up your man suit, get that bitch welded up and keep slaying BMWs and Porches.
This is the kind of stuff that excited me when I built the turbo car. These days, I want to be nationally competitive. I'd like to get into TTD and see what I can do.
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Old 08-27-2012, 02:59 AM   #57
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I thought I made a post about that. Basically, Ambien can cause severe, acute depression so I stopped taking it, lol.
**** yes! I'm excited to hear about the return of hustler!

And no, I haven't seen you make a post about ambien on here. A search of mt.net of your posts about ambien only return this one.
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Old 08-27-2012, 03:18 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by hustler View Post
Will I be severely detonation limited on 91 or 93 octane with this 11.5:1 compression ratio?
I've made 120whp on a 1.6 with bolt-ons and good injectors, 130 on a stock 99. I think when we compare to the 99 engine, the header is good for ~10hp, the square top is good for another 10hp, and then we have the increased compression ratio so 150whp is totally doable, I predict more. I plan to get it on the dyno this weekend if I can get an exhaust made on Friday. I'm getting excited about this.

I suspect that when it comes to the 150whp NA class that either idiots are tuning the cars or owners are sandbagging. I'm a lonely virgin so I will post everything I do on the interweb to make friends and hopefully less the tears.
I thought you guys had 93 in Texas? With a VVT head, there may be a few spots below the torque peak where you might not get quite to MBT before det threshold with 91. Depends on IAT's cam timing and a few other variables. We got 182whp on CA 91 with small race cams, BP4W, mild compression but that motor was on the ragged edge of det, sprint race tune.
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Old 08-27-2012, 03:35 AM   #59
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We have 93 almost every where. Trey get it up and running but as suggested many times above your going to need that VVT head to fatten up ther area under the curve. So don't freak out but keep your eye out for a deal on one.

Good choice, this will put you in a good class with NASA after a dyno reclass. Your going to have some good fun.

To everyone calling bullshit
1) log on to miata.net
2) advanced search
3) naturally aspirated, Emillio700
4) read noobs
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Old 08-27-2012, 03:37 AM   #60
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I thought you guys had 93 in Texas? With a VVT head, there may be a few spots below the torque peak where you might not get quite to MBT before det threshold with 91. Depends on IAT's cam timing and a few other variables. We got 182whp on CA 91 with small race cams, BP4W, mild compression but that motor was on the ragged edge of det, sprint race tune.
Thanks. I recently tuned a 10:1 VVT car with a 2560r that had so little spark advance I'm certain it will be a valve-burner, it's good to know I won't have that.

93 in Texas, 91 in OK and LA. I'm probably going to tune on 91 this weekend and see what happens. John and I are going to tag-team the car so we expect to go through several tanks of fuel. I'm pulling a tire trailer so I guess I can hook-up the det cans on the way to the track and listen for det after tuning on 93 and filling-up with 91.

The only two rubber hoses left in the car are the fuel-pump feed lines so I could swap those and possibly run E85 too, but that's kind-of a pain in the ***. I like the simplicity of driving across the street for fuel.

On the dyno I'm going to tune it like I do all cars, add fuel until it stops making torque, then add spark.
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