GM to use small turbo V8, ditches pushrods for next Vette! - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 06-03-2011, 06:25 PM   #1
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Thumbs up GM to use small turbo V8, ditches pushrods for next Vette!

Oh hell yeah!

Yahoo Autos/The Detroit Bureau

"GM has approved the use of a very European-style V-8 that will be only slightly larger than 3 liters in displacement. The engine will be an overhead-cam, rather than traditional overhead-valve design, using a dry sump oil system thatís particularly well suited to high-performance road courses rather than straight-line acceleration. The engine is expected to feature a narrow 80.5 mm bore and a long stroke, more like a Ferrari or Lamborghini powertrain than the approach used for traditional Motor City metal."
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Old 06-03-2011, 06:42 PM   #2
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I had to re-read this a few times to be sure I wasn't dreaming.

Can it be that a major US automaker will finally produce an engine whose specific output rivals those of a European or Japanese automaker from 20 years ago?

The fact that they're acknowledging the need to continue offering a big-block pushrod engine as an option suggests that they have actually thought the matter through on this one and are taking a realistic course of action that has a chance of succeeding in the long term.

Bravo, GM!




Now, who will be the first to transplant one of these into a Miata?
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Old 06-03-2011, 06:56 PM   #3
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The only reason they are going to it is because of the crazy emissions laws. I believe this engine to be the end of the crazy wide use of new gm engine swaps in hot rods and other custom uses. As cool as it is there probably will be far less available aftermarket heads/cams/stroker kits for them that make the old small block and current LS engine so popular. This is already seen in the ford motors of current days, there is just not much out there.
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Old 06-03-2011, 07:03 PM   #4
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Might I ask, Why? What is the point? The Corvette (at least for about the last 20 years) has been a benchmark for engine performance and development.

Quote:
190 mph on the test track, 26 mpg on the highway.
With its standard 6.2 Liter LS3 aluminum block V8 engine and a favorable power-to-weight ratio, Corvette coupe performs like a thoroughbred. The coupe also boasts an excellent drag coefficient of .286.

Top speed of 190 mph and a 0-to-60 time of 4.2 seconds on the test track
26 MPG highway(4) with no gas-guzzler tax
Better highway fuel economy than many six-cylinder sports cars including BMW Z4, Mercedes SLK350 and Porsche 911 Targa 4S
They're RATED at 26mpg highway, every person I've ever known has seen 32mpg or better on long roadtrips keeping off the throttle.


Again, what is the point? My question isn't to bash the idea I'm just trying to understand why? If something isn't broken then why fix it? 380 cubic inches, pushrods, single cam, 430 horsepower and 430# of torque. Boltons yield huge gains on these motors, add a few psi of boost and power goes through the roof! Forgot to mention that aftermarket parts for these engines are dime a dozen for tons of items.. You're really not going to get the torque, power, and economy out of a small displacement forced induction engine. Just not going to happen.
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Old 06-03-2011, 07:05 PM   #5
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Like I said its all EPA driven, read the last sentence about ford.
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Old 06-03-2011, 07:13 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elesjuan View Post
Again, what is the point? My question isn't to bash the idea I'm just trying to understand why?
Emissions. And that is all.

Same reason why the Ford 7.3 PSD went away and was replaced by the 6.0 that was inferior in every way... except emissions.
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Old 06-03-2011, 08:05 PM   #7
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there is a vett guy on my block that i have talked to at length about cars. He swapped his finale drive on his c6z06 to a very over sized ratio. He tracks the car and uses 1-4 at the track and 5-6 on the highway, he is getting ~32 mpg and you can get on the power harder at lower rev with less wheel spin.
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Old 06-03-2011, 08:12 PM   #8
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"According to Autocar, the next ‘Vette will feature a high-rev 3.0-liter V-8 engine, which thanks to a twin-turbocharging system could develop as much as 400 horsepower. The source also revealed that the rev band could stretch as high as 10,000 rpm, giving exotic brands like Ferrari and Porsche a run for their money"
They'll still have other traditional V8's available too btw
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Old 06-03-2011, 08:55 PM   #9
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I've no doubt that, as Ben and others have said, this is a move prompted to a great extent by the need for stricter emissions control.

That said, however, I'm quite excited by what it portends for the aftermarket. While there may never be a huge array of aftermarket cams and heads, let us not forget that those are the crutches of the naturally-aspirated.

It is probably safe to assume that this will be a four-valve-per-chamber head, and that the turbo system will be quite over-engineered and under-tuned. This move could potentially elevate the Corvette to the same status as the vaunted WRX STi and Lancer Evo, where the tuner market responds not with "hard parts" (heads, cams, etc) but with boost control, engine management and oversized turbo goodies designed to unlock the real power potential of the engine.

I wouldn't be surprised if a streetable 600 HP was achievable without touching the internals, particularly if they're serious about a 10k redline.

Last edited by Joe Perez; 06-04-2011 at 12:12 AM. Reason: Placement of commas is important.
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Old 06-03-2011, 11:39 PM   #10
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I always lol'd at my buddie's 251 V8, developing a whopping 170hp. The corvette has only been marginally more impressive. Kudos to them for making an engine with realistic power/displacement ratio, although I don't believe it belongs in the Corvette. If I were to buy one (and I probably wouldn't buy a corvette if I had corvette money to waste on a car, btw.), I'd be with one of the traditional V8s, they belong in the corvette IMO.
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Old 06-04-2011, 12:11 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curly View Post
although I don't believe it belongs in the Corvette.
Agreed- it belongs in the Solstice.

Unfortunately, as GM decided to skull-**** that entire product line, I can't think of anything better to put it in than the Vette.

Truthfully, if this engine becomes a reality, and they manage to shave off a few excess kilos in the process, then it will elevate the Corvette in my eyes much nearer to the Sports Grand Tourer territory occupied by Maserati, Aston Martin, Ferarri and Merc. That is not a bad thing.

Now, if only they could finally move away from the leaf-spring suspension...
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Old 06-04-2011, 12:17 AM   #12
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It might just be because of costs, but you've seen / felt the interior of the new ZR1 I assume? My Mazdaspeed6 interior was of higher build / fit / finish quality than the $110,000 supercar. Would that stop me from buying one? No..

I still don't think that engine fits the Corvette. Wait, GM Un-fucked their product line post 1970???
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Old 06-04-2011, 12:25 AM   #13
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Add DI to the current applications, bump the HP up 50rwhp on each model, and profit.

Look at the Coyote engine and its potential.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-c...-745-rwhp.html
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Old 06-04-2011, 01:03 AM   #14
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I am excited about this engine. GM knows how to build an awesome engine as proven with LSXs. Kinda doubting a mid-engined Vette, but who cares? This engine!
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Old 06-04-2011, 01:11 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gotpsi? View Post
The only reason they are going to it is because of the crazy emissions laws. . . This is already seen in the ford motors of current days, there is just not much out there.
Right. So Ford 5.0's of the 80s are a piece of history now. Oh wait. . .
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Old 06-04-2011, 01:21 AM   #16
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people always cite how you can get a SBC and everything is available for it for cheap.

Thats because it needs it, imagine 7.2L worth of f20c with just a bolt on turbo, 1000+hp on stock internals. maybe 1500?

Its only that SBCs need roller rockers, high flowing heads, huge cams..etc etc etc to get them to flow.
Its all good to make 400hp out of a 7 litre. J is going to make 600 with a 1.6

Dann
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Old 06-04-2011, 01:41 AM   #17
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lol @ the purists/old timers.

What if the next Corvette had a straight six?



Oh, right, then it just wouldn't be a Corvette anymore.
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Old 06-04-2011, 01:49 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrodann View Post
people always cite how you can get a SBC and everything is available for it for cheap.

Thats because it needs it, imagine 7.2L worth of f20c with just a bolt on turbo, 1000+hp on stock internals. maybe 1500?

Its only that SBCs need roller rockers, high flowing heads, huge cams..etc etc etc to get them to flow.
Its all good to make 400hp out of a 7 litre. J is going to make 600 with a 1.6

Dann


I'm sorry, but a 1500 horsepower 4 cylinder is NOT even remotely the same type of engine as an n/a 7.2 liter. You're comparing mars to the sun here. No way in hell would that be anything even stretching to streetable, and I also doubt the off the shelf longevity of that type of engine. Put it in a full body, full interior car and just TRY to drive it. GUARANTEED that engine *if* it existed would have less than 100hp to at least 4000rpm, if not higher.

The last v8 I put together was a ZZ4 shortblock with forged pistons, 10:1 compression, a large camshaft (don't remember the specs off hand, hydraulic NON ROLLER), standard 1.6 non-roller rockers, long tubes, dual plane, ~700cfm daemon carb, heavily machined L31 heads. Grand total of that build was just under 3000$, with a slipping transmission put down 418hp/474tq. Car runs on 91 octane pump gas, lots of advance, and propelled a 4120# car to some healthy quarter times. Not to mention gets 27mpg highway with an auto/overdrive and 2.73:1 rear. Torque peak was around 3300rpm, held to just shy of 6000rpm. Car will accelerate onto the highway quicker than most people will without even opening the secondaries, and less than 1/3rd throttle. Tell me again how pushrod motors need all this newfound technical roller crap to be efficient?

In highschool I built a Midwest motorsports stroker special 383 for $2100 with my buddy. Took his stock chassis, full interior 1984 Cutlass to consistent 12.50 quarters. Solid (not hydro, non roller) camshaft, stock stamped rockers, '76 wedge heads, 11:1 compression, 2.73 peg leg, 28x10.5 ET streets. Still ran on 91 octane, never dynoed.


You can get an SBC and stuff for them because they're the most popular engine ever created. Guarantee you when I die an old age of 100 there will still be 100 SBCs to every honda engine created.
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Old 06-04-2011, 02:00 AM   #19
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I'd like to remind everyone of something...


The most powerful piston driven fuel powered engines that exist run PUSHRODS.



Have yet to see a 4 cylinder or OHC engine produce 8000hp, myself.
Just wanted to put that out there.
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Old 06-04-2011, 02:19 AM   #20
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I like the idea of the new engine, partially because this guy doesn't:



Long live the pushrods! Git R Dun!
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