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Old 12-09-2009, 09:00 AM   #101
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Heya all,

blah blah blah.
STFU, faggette. No one gives a **** about your pathetic life or your ---- fissures.
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Old 12-09-2009, 09:01 AM   #102
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Who gives a ****, ban him anyway. He has contributed nothing useful to any forum and has made threats for absolutely no reason.
and he may be dreadedred.
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Old 12-09-2009, 09:27 AM   #103
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you didn't really just ask for that did you?

Muslims: What is America's problem with the Muslim community?

America: Yer all dirty, murdering terrorists!

Muslims: What? You ********! Jihad on you!

America: See!

when you say dirty, you assume smelly as well right? If not you left it out.
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Old 12-09-2009, 09:53 AM   #104
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I will buy the product that is the best value. Value contains two variables: price and suitability for the task.

Henry Ford didn't invent the automobile. In fact, there were many better cars on the road when he brought the Model T to the market. He didn't really make any design or engineering innovations in the Model T either. It was a very basic, stripped down copy of contemporary designs. He did, however, reduce the costs associated with construction of the automobile to less than one quarter that of his contemporaries. He knew there was a large, untapped demand for the product if the price could be reduced to a level that was more affordable for the common man. It was innovation in production, and not design, that allowed Ford to sell more cars than all other brands combined in the 1920s.

The free market pivots around value, whether perceived or real. If a product is as good or better for the same price, it will likely do well. If a product is lesser in quality but still good enough to function in its intended purpose (Chinachargers for instance), and the price is commensurately discounted, then it will likely be a commercial success.

In this free market economy you must either have a better value (quality vs. price) or better name recognition/customer loyalty/advertising. An example is Tylenol still sells reasonably well even though generic acetaminophen is far less expensive. Who paid for the R&D?

But the first rule of marketing is that the top selling company never refers to the one in second place. It does a few negative things when they do. It gives free publicity to the second product. It equivocates the products. It makes the representatives of the top product appear concerned that the second product is a better perceived value. The rule is that the makers of the top selling product should act publicly as though there are no others in existence. This is all college level marketing strategies and not "guy selling mail order parts from his basement" type stuff, but I think the axioms are no less pertinent.
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Old 12-09-2009, 10:35 AM   #105
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Example of a great "knock off": My touge run lip had a run in with a large chunk of ice on Sunday driving up to Shuiend's house. Upon contact a loud smash could be heard, even my brother heard it in the truck he was driving behind me. In the rearview you could see that large chunk of ice had been turned into little ice cubes. Later when looking at the lip, it was completely unharmed. A normal GV lip would have completely fragged into a billion pieces and that iceburg on the road would be waiting for another sucker to run over it.

Touge run took a popular cosmetic design and innovated it by making it out of much stronger material that the original company has never saw fit to do. Innovation is something this country is built on. Even our patent system allows you to patent improvements to existing products owned by someone else.
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Old 12-09-2009, 10:57 AM   #106
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Rharris youre a dick, why the **** do you make quality parts at an affordable price?!?!?

Ps: Im still waiting for a reply from emilo on the chrome spinner 6uls
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Old 12-09-2009, 11:10 AM   #107
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The thread I rightfully jocked was jocked from me.

Hi Max!
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Old 12-09-2009, 11:25 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by buffon01 View Post
Rharris youre a dick, why the **** do you make quality parts at an affordable price?!?!?

Ps: Im still waiting for a reply from emilo on the chrome spinner 6uls

It doesn't matter who you are, what you're selling, or how much pho you eat daily. If you start posting about group buys and crap over at cr.net without paying for sponsorship, they'll pull your ****.

get over it.
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Old 12-09-2009, 11:55 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by neogenesis2004 View Post
Example of a great "knock off": My touge run lip had a run in with a large chunk of ice on Sunday driving up to Shuiend's house. Upon contact a loud smash could be heard, even my brother heard it in the truck he was driving behind me. In the rearview you could see that large chunk of ice had been turned into little ice cubes. Later when looking at the lip, it was completely unharmed. A normal GV lip would have completely fragged into a billion pieces and that iceburg on the road would be waiting for another sucker to run over it.
I can attest to this fact... This was from just snow on a GV Lip BTW. PICS!!!

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Old 12-09-2009, 12:03 PM   #110
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Henry Ford didn't invent the automobile. In fact, there were many better cars on the road when he brought the Model T to the market. He didn't really make any design or engineering innovations in the Model T either. It was a very basic, stripped down copy of contemporary designs. He did, however, reduce the costs associated with construction of the automobile to less than one quarter that of his contemporaries. He knew there was a large, untapped demand for the product if the price could be reduced to a level that was more affordable for the common man. It was innovation in production, and not design, that allowed Ford to sell more cars than all other brands combined in the 1920s.
My last comment. I read the whole thread, don't worry. You just said it here, Ford made a STRIPPED DOWN COPY. He didn't make an exact replica of other's work and I give him props for this.

Look, I couldn't care less if the guy did a copy of it to just sell it for his friends and that would end there. But when I saw a guy claiming he was selling Tuckin99 flares on CR.net for $450 I thought it was the used price, no problem with that. When I found out it was a reproduction, I felt totally pissed off and now tell me who's the bad guy. I don't use other's item recognition to sell them and that's a very bad way to do business.

I don't want to be an ******* or anything, but if I was acting using the free market method, I would just open a factory in Mexico, wait for someone to develop part, copy it and sell it for cheaper 2 weeks later. Would you still buy the original's hard work or mine ?

You might say whatever you guys want about me, I'm a honest guy and do this for a passion.

hustler, I think that you are very pathetic and have 5 years old comportment.

neogenesis2004, please don't get started with the touge thing. Hey, everyone can take a current product and just change the material. Heck, I could even buy racing beat bumper and have it made the same material. The guy could at least have altered the design, that's what I'm saying. How about if I buy 6UL wheels, have them made cheaper, stronger and lighter somewhere else in the world, if I run over it using a hummer and test both side to side to prove my improved (other material) version is better ? Will you feel good buying a product from a guy that just copied Emilio's hard work, the work of a guy that helped the Miata industry a lot by bringing very nice products to the market ?

To everyone else, thanks for not starting bitching about me and kept it civilized, I wanted to explain my case and how I see what's happening.

As I said, it's en endless discussion.

Thanks,

-Max
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Old 12-09-2009, 12:14 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by invert View Post
How about if I buy 6UL wheels, have them made cheaper, stronger and lighter somewhere else in the world, if I run over it using a hummer and test both side to side to prove my improved (other material) version is better?
I'd expect Emilio to fight back and adapt by either improving his own 6UL product, or concentrating his business in other areas. I certainly wouldn't expect people to continue paying more money for an inferior product just out of loyalty. This is competition, and it's how we get better and cheaper products. Nobody has a "right" to be in business, you are constantly fighting for every dollar you make.

I work in a 30+ year old independent bookstore. When Borders, Barnes and Noble, and Books-A-Million opened up all over the country, lots of independent bookstores just whined and begged their customers to not leave them. We changed our attitude and fought the chain stores in the areas we could win (customer service, out of print, signed and first edition books, etc).
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Old 12-09-2009, 12:18 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by invert View Post
My last comment. I read the whole thread, don't worry. You just said it here, Ford made a STRIPPED DOWN COPY. He didn't make an exact replica of other's work and I give him props for this.

Look, I couldn't care less if the guy did a copy of it to just sell it for his friends and that would end there. But when I saw a guy claiming he was selling Tuckin99 flares on CR.net for $450 I thought it was the used price, no problem with that. When I found out it was a reproduction, I felt totally pissed off and now tell me who's the bad guy. I don't use other's item recognition to sell them and that's a very bad way to do business.

I don't want to be an ******* or anything, but if I was acting using the free market method, I would just open a factory in Mexico, wait for someone to develop part, copy it and sell it for cheaper 2 weeks later. Would you still buy the original's hard work or mine ?

You might say whatever you guys want about me, I'm a honest guy and do this for a passion.

hustler, I think that you are very pathetic and have 5 years old comportment.

neogenesis2004, please don't get started with the touge thing. Hey, everyone can take a current product and just change the material. Heck, I could even buy racing beat bumper and have it made the same material. The guy could at least have altered the design, that's what I'm saying. How about if I buy 6UL wheels, have them made cheaper, stronger and lighter somewhere else in the world, if I run over it using a hummer and test both side to side to prove my improved (other material) version is better ? Will you feel good buying a product from a guy that just copied Emilio's hard work, the work of a guy that helped the Miata industry a lot by bringing very nice products to the market ?

To everyone else, thanks for not starting bitching about me and kept it civilized, I wanted to explain my case and how I see what's happening.

As I said, it's en endless discussion.

Thanks,

-Max
So it's wrong to sell a copy of a copy, but not the first copy? LOL

I'm generally opposed to people selling cheap knock-off copies of parts, but in this particular case, rharris is reproducing something that to the best of my knowledge is no longer available new. This is not the same as a company selling cheap copies of HKS, Greddy, Tial, Garrett, etc. products that are still in current production by the original manufacturer.

I also support the production of the Touge Run front lip, which as demonstrated above, takes the original design and improves it through better construction material selection.
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Old 12-09-2009, 12:34 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by invert View Post
neogenesis2004, please don't get started with the touge thing. Hey, everyone can take a current product and just change the material. Heck, I could even buy racing beat bumper and have it made the same material. The guy could at least have altered the design, that's what I'm saying. How about if I buy 6UL wheels, have them made cheaper, stronger and lighter somewhere else in the world, if I run over it using a hummer and test both side to side to prove my improved (other material) version is better ? Will you feel good buying a product from a guy that just copied Emilio's hard work, the work of a guy that helped the Miata industry a lot by bringing very nice products to the market ?
First, If anyone could do it I would expect the original company to improve their own design instead of making it out of the same material for years that breaks like glass. They chose not to do that so someone else did, I'm ok with that because I have a better product now.

Same thing goes for emilio. IF someone makes the same wheel or a better wheel that looks similar at a lower cost, I'll buy that. Thats the reality of business. Get over it. Like said above, I would expect emilio to fight back with another competitive product. From the little I know about him I doubt he would be on a forum complaining and being butt hurt like you are now. He would be in the shop innovating.

Tuckin99 needs to innovate if they want business. How about they make from flares out of a nice plastic like the touge run lip instead of fragile fiberglass. That would make RHarris's new alternative not as attractive.

This is you not thinking out of the box.
|-------|
|INVERT|
|-------|

Go ask Obama to pass a law to restrict the free market and innovation.
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Old 12-09-2009, 12:36 PM   #114
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Go ask Obama to pass a law to restrict the free market and innovation.

Holy **** dude...you know he would, chill the noise.
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Old 12-09-2009, 12:38 PM   #115
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Also, too add....

I don't consider a superior product a knock off. A knock off by example is typically inferior in material and quality. The Touge Run lip is a better material and as good of quality as the GV lip. Therefore I do not view it as a knockoff.
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Old 12-09-2009, 12:41 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by invert View Post
blah blah

I don't want to be an ******* or anything, but if I was acting using the free market method, I would just open a factory in Mexico, wait for someone to develop part, copy it and sell it for cheaper 2 weeks later. Would you still buy the original's hard work or mine ?

blah

neogenesis2004, please don't get started with the touge thing. Hey, everyone can take a current product and just change the material. Heck, I could even buy racing beat bumper and have it made the same material. The guy could at least have altered the design, that's what I'm saying. How about if I buy 6UL wheels, have them made cheaper, stronger and lighter somewhere else in the world, if I run over it using a hummer and test both side to side to prove my improved (other material) version is better ? Will you feel good buying a product from a guy that just copied Emilio's hard work, the work of a guy that helped the Miata industry a lot by bringing very nice products to the market ?

blah blah
I will buy whatever part that gets me going faster for the cheapest price. If there is a cheaper, stronger, lighter, all around better wheel out there, I will get it. This isn't a family; I'm on a strict budget and am not in the mood to spend an extra $500 for the same thing that has more "hard work and dedication" put into it. This is one reason the American auto industry is failing. Your argument is moot.

EDIT: I guess everyone beat me to it. I am a slow typer.
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Old 12-09-2009, 12:44 PM   #117
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LOL, this really is my last comment. I am thinking out of the box. I am actually developping plenty of products in collaboration with japanese tuners, however, I am just afraid of releasing them and having them copied out of the box (and so they are).

As for a copy of a copy, that's not really true. I confirmed with Tuckin99 that they actually bought Mazda's molds & rights.

I am really done now, otherwise I'll just never get out of that thread.
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Old 12-09-2009, 12:50 PM   #118
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Well if you develop a superior product at a competitive price you have nothing to worry about. Thats what emilio has done, and I think anyone would be hard pressed to get them made at a lower cost and still have the same quality. The fact is there is 0 reason the tuckin99 flares should cost $700. Those japanese tuners are basically creating an artificial lack of supply to drive up the price.
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Old 12-09-2009, 12:54 PM   #119
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whatever, the ARO Chambered intake is proven balla' status and worthy of the price tag.
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Old 12-09-2009, 01:01 PM   #120
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LOL, this really is my last comment. I am thinking out of the box. I am actually developping plenty of products in collaboration with japanese tuners, however, I am just afraid of releasing them and having them copied out of the box (and so they are).

As for a copy of a copy, that's not really true. I confirmed with Tuckin99 that they actually bought Mazda's molds & rights.

I am really done now, otherwise I'll just never get out of that thread.
What good does all that thinking out of the box do if none of it is released? Nothing, unless it's only for yourself.

You're not getting the point. Or maybe I am not. Please correct me if so. Here is a list:
  • There are 2 products
  • One is cheaper, one is more expensive
  • They both are the same product

So uhh...
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