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Old 09-07-2012, 07:15 PM   #21
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LOL

I'd rather not find out the hard way if it can or can't.
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Old 09-07-2012, 07:40 PM   #22
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LOL

I'd rather not find out the hard way if it can or can't.
Oh come on. If you have a knock sensor this really isn't that dangerous. Don't tell me you haven't tuned pump gas until knock onset and backed off.

With low boost and lower HP this really is pretty low risk, especially how far off from the MBT plateau most of the boosted timing maps floating around this forum are.
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Old 09-07-2012, 08:13 PM   #23
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Oh come on. If you have a knock sensor this really isn't that dangerous. Don't tell me you haven't tuned pump gas until knock onset and backed off.

With low boost and lower HP this really is pretty low risk, especially how far off from the MBT plateau most of the boosted timing maps floating around this forum are.
I haven't. Every car I tune I tell them: "I will only go as far as I am comfortable going, if it knocks before then I'll back off, but if it doesn't I won't keep pushing it unless you specifically instruct me to do so"

So far only a couple people told me to keep going and both were on e85 so we stopped "gaining" power well before I saw anything even resembling knock.

So in a nutshell: I'm a big ***** and leave the "testing the limits of motor" part to hardcore badass vegans like yourself
or PROFESSIONAL tuners
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Old 09-07-2012, 08:24 PM   #24
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I haven't. Every car I tune I tell them: "I will only go as far as I am comfortable going, if it knocks before then I'll back off, but if it doesn't I won't keep pushing it unless you specifically instruct me to do so"

So far only a couple people told me to keep going and both were on e85 so we stopped "gaining" power well before I saw anything even resembling knock.

So in a nutshell: I'm a big ***** and leave the "testing the limits of motor" part to hardcore badass vegans like yourself
or PROFESSIONAL tuners
/threadjack

totally off topic, but seeing your online portfolio and whatnot, but i'd would totally trust you over myself to tune my 7M when it gets finished at the machine shop, it will have forged rods and pistons and a balancing, but I tend to waste fuel with no power gain with it with fuel controllers (apexi Neo). Can I bring my supra by one of these days so we can cuddle in the car and talk HP? Tuning was a learning experience when I had an MSPNP for about 4 months but I was sooo conservative with the tune in my miata. I dont like most of the california Supraforum guys since they are selfish dicks. If this could be possible ill PM you when the car is finished and ready to drive.


/threadjack
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Old 09-07-2012, 08:28 PM   #25
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Sure thing.
Though I hate piggy backs. My friend has a built 30r 2j mk3 actually, and after blowing up his motor on a stupid apexi avcr he finally switched over to a real EMS. I advise you to do likewise.
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Old 09-07-2012, 08:36 PM   #26
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Sure thing.
Though I hate piggy backs. My friend has a built 30r 2j mk3 actually, and after blowing up his motor on a stupid apexi avcr he finally switched over to a real EMS. I advise you to do likewise.
I want an MS so badly, but i'd have to build one and I am to busy (lazy) for that atm. I bought my car with the Apexi Neo already installed, the first owner babied the car, the second owner tuned it with a complete top-end rebuild and overhaul (port polish, Crower cams, titanium valves... bla bla bla), gave the suspension better springs, full 3" freeflow exhaust, Apexi neo and tune, intercooler upgrade, walbro fuel pump, radiator upgrade, etc... tons of ****...), the last guy that owned it was complete trailer trash, all displacement knowledge but no tuning experience, RUINED the tune, and almost ruined the car completely. I bought it from that dude for 2k flat since he couldnt pass CA smog, and fixed it up to the best I could until the inevitable... ate up bearings and low oil pressure.
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Old 09-07-2012, 10:42 PM   #27
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I haven't. Every car I tune I tell them: "I will only go as far as I am comfortable going, if it knocks before then I'll back off, but if it doesn't I won't keep pushing it unless you specifically instruct me to do so"

So far only a couple people told me to keep going and both were on e85 so we stopped "gaining" power well before I saw anything even resembling knock.

So in a nutshell: I'm a big ***** and leave the "testing the limits of motor" part to hardcore badass vegans like yourself
or PROFESSIONAL tuners
Nothing wrong with playing it safe. Unless it is way too safe and you are running 10*@[email protected]

That said have you seen timing maps of big boost and big power evos? They run like 5* at 7000rpm and 40psi. Evo community tuning r&d is wayyyy beyond miata community and so i would love to talk to an evo tuner to find out why so little timing. This is even with e85 and race gas.
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Old 09-07-2012, 11:51 PM   #28
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WTF is a "knock engine"????
The device that produces the 'Motor Octane' number on your anti-knock index. The cylinder moves independently of the rotating assembly, so that combustion chamber volume and compression ratio can be varied actively. You fire the motor up at low compression ratio, then add compression until it knocks. The compression ratio you end up at yields your motor octane number.
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Old 09-08-2012, 12:50 AM   #29
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Nothing wrong with playing it safe. Unless it is way too safe and you are running 10*@[email protected]

That said have you seen timing maps of big boost and big power evos? They run like 5* at 7000rpm and 40psi. Evo community tuning r&d is wayyyy beyond miata community and so i would love to talk to an evo tuner to find out why so little timing. This is even with e85 and race gas.
you HAVE GOT TO stop comparing tuning strategies between different cars/engines/setups as if all internal combustion gasoline engines are exactly the same

Get that stupid **** out of your head once and for all, cause I see you posting comments like "how hard could it be, just dial in xx afr xx boost and xx timing and bingo" when referring to other cars.

Don't be an ignoraus and trust me on this: tuning a miata vs evo vs subie is very different if you get into the nitty gritty and go beyond just running "acceptable" afr and getting to MBT then backing off.

that said, it is usually safer and more beneficial to keep adding more flow and more fuel and ultimately increasing dynamic pressure, than adding timing and increasing static pressure......I've tried this before: adding timing and fuel vs adding boost and fuel - most cars responded much better to the boost+fuel while reducing timing. also sometimes its beneficial to drop timing even though you haven't reached knock threshold yet, and adding MOAR BOOST will achieve yet more power.....usually the case in high boost applications


(Disclaimer: I'm not a pro-tuner and semi inebriated ATM, so if something is off idgaf)

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Old 09-08-2012, 05:19 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by vehicular View Post
The device that produces the 'Motor Octane' number on your anti-knock index. The cylinder moves independently of the rotating assembly, so that combustion chamber volume and compression ratio can be varied actively. You fire the motor up at low compression ratio, then add compression until it knocks. The compression ratio you end up at yields your motor octane number.

Ahh, thank you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
you HAVE GOT TO stop comparing tuning strategies between different cars/engines/setups as if all internal combustion gasoline engines are exactly the same

Get that stupid **** out of your head once and for all, cause I see you posting comments like "how hard could it be, just dial in xx afr xx boost and xx timing and bingo" when referring to other cars.

Don't be an ignoraus and trust me on this: tuning a miata vs evo vs subie is very different if you get into the nitty gritty and go beyond just running "acceptable" afr and getting to MBT then backing off.
Details on nitty gritty is what I am interested in.
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