Manufacture Debate. Is American built junk? - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Insert BS here A place to discuss anything you want

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-01-2011, 05:33 AM   #21
Elite Member
iTrader: (13)
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Fraser Valley, British Columbia
Posts: 2,502
Total Cats: 13
Default

There are two sides to it for me (and this also includes "Made in Canada"). I find if it's a small manufacturer or small business that puts a lot of pride into their work the "Made in USA/Canada" usually means it's a good product. For the large companies who just put that phrase on their item to appeal to the patriotic side in you, a lot of the times the product is ****. This is a complete generalization, but it's the easiest way to explain my thinking. There are obviously going to be exceptions to both sides.

That being said, the only US car manufacturer I would consider at this moment in time is Ford. But not trucks... only their cars. I drove a new Focus for work and it was really really good.
falcon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2011, 08:50 AM   #22
Cpt. Slow
iTrader: (25)
 
curly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 12,110
Total Cats: 518
Default

I'd have to agree, Ford is light years ahead of GM. I had an open mind while going car shopping for my GF's car, to make sure I didn't push her into something she didn't want. She ended up with a Mazda 3, saying it was both cheap for what you got, looked good, and drove great, she loves it. All the other cars she liked, but found one or two things she didn't like. Price was cheap, but you could kind of tell, no sunroof, no room for our dog, that sort of thing.

The second we stepped into anything American, she immedietely said no. Random features that made no sense. Giant abysses of plastic that were quoted as "laptop holders". That can fit my entire arm?!? Drove like ****, turned like ****, breaked like ****, she did NOT like them. We looked at cars for a month, after two weeks we stopped looking at anything American.

I'd like to avoid "you shouldn't outsource to Japan" arguments, as most Japanese cars have some basis in America, and vise versa.
curly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2011, 09:02 AM   #23
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 6,868
Total Cats: 66
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chpmnsws6 View Post
Its comforting knowing I don't have to replace the timing belt every 60K miles which can be a major ordeal. The newer 5.3/6.0/4.6/5.4's are also very reliable. Hell, the junk 5.3 in the Miata had 120k miles on it when I put it in it hits 6800rpm on a daily basis while making a conservative 320rwhp or so. The 180k mile I6 in the Jeep has sat at the far side of its tach for minutes in mud holes because it'd keep inching forward while buried up to the headlights in soup.

If I wanted comfort, I'd get into a car. Trucks should be harder, rougher, and more intolerable then the sissies they've become. In the 50's-70's, you had a truck for WORK and a car to be seen in. You didn't go to church in your truck. I laugh every time I see a truck without any "work marks" in the bed, especially the diesels. If you don't work a diesel, you kill a diesel.

As far as the diesels- US emissions have choked out any good left in new diesels. When I have to run the equivalent of hog **** in a separate tank and the mileage is about the same as a gasser, its just not worth it. Now add in the added expense of owning a diesel over a gasser in maintenance and extra money up front and it makes it a waste now unless you actually use the truck (like pulling 15k or more which would rip the guts out of most any gasser when our old coal burner takes it and runs better from it).

Cliff notes-
Simplicity rocks in trucks.
Buy a truck to use it. If you don't intend to use it, don't waste it...Buy a car.
Make trucks more like a truck was intended to be.
Emissions choke the life out of everything fun.

*edit*- in most of you cats defense, I come from a far more "backwoods" background and use/depend on trucks for their original purpose.

I wholly agree with you on the point of owning a truck. A truck is a truck is a truck..it's supposed to be used hard, tow ****, have a beat up bed and an uncomfortable ride.

While I agree that U.S. mfgs. have diesel nailed down, it makes sense that they would at least try. Think about all the diesel products the Japanese make that are more commercial/industrial in other countries. You don't think they could apply that to their automotive branches? I am kinda stumped as to you the diesel guys are getting royally fucked on all these new emissions regulations, diesel blends and much higher fuel costs....it's a complete 180* compared to 10 years ago...and it's not like they are a large percentage of vehicles on the road.


But on the subject of interiors-
I can't say that I've been in any new(er) trucks in the past few years. I base it off what I drove/rode in years ago (mostly GM products) and it's left a bad impression on me. Maybe GM needs to target people who are like this. Since some of you guys own/use these products every day, you know them better and have your preferences, I don't and go off what little experience I have. I know I am not the only one like this either and if I were in the market for a truck I sure would be hesitant about looking at 'Merican stuff. The most I've been around a truck was using my dad's 98' F150. it was pretty basic and had the Triton 4.6...but with a 5 spd. That thing got used...a LOT. Towing horse trailers, bed loads of dirt and tons of other stuff. That thing never skipped a beat....ever.
I will say, I had to have a rental car a few months ago and they stuck me with a 2011 Camry. What a ******* **** box. I couldn't believe it. Sure it was base, but still...I had to get the hell out of it. I ended up getting a 2011 Malibu instead and I can say I was surprised....compared to the Camry. They were both very unimpressive in the end though.




Avalanche still screams "plastic POS" though. It's definitely the Scion tC of the truck market.
Doppelgänger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2011, 09:46 AM   #24
Elite Member
iTrader: (12)
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Longs, SC
Posts: 2,583
Total Cats: 13
Default

I read the first few posts then skipped down here. Im just going to comment on the thread title.

Yes. Mostly. In my experience just about everything '95 or newer is indeed junk.

Had an 03 Cavalier a few years back. Had around 40K miles while I had it. Randomly had stuff falling off it, the chip in the key went back and would randomly shut down the fuel sender when trying to start the car. Everything in it was made of the cheapest materials they would possibly find. The speaker were just short of tracing paper.

Brother had a 04 Grand Prix, that developed a crack in the block and leaked oil into the coolant. Dont know the milage on that one though, but it was < 100K.

GF had a 2000 Impala. Biggest POS Ive ever ridden in. Always had stupid annoying crap go bad. Driving just after she bought it and all the interior lights died. Always had stuff falling off. Couldnt even replace a tire because the jack would sink right into the rust.

Mom had a few Ford Windstars ('96-98) that all developed transmission issues. As well as the Chevy equivilent van, dont remember what its called, that did the same thing.

95 Olds Cutlass Ciera. Driving home one night and I press the horn. Shorts out just about everything. Interior lights, power seats, radio, horn, power mirrors,

I have limited experience with stuff pre-95, but I had a 93 Mercury Topaz(Ford Tempo) that I beat the **** out of. Roll back burnouts, Parking brake burnouts, parking brake J turns, reverse 180s, driving like a dumbass in the snow, racing friends on the highway. Took 3 years of that beating before it needed any actual repairs. Dont get me wrong though, it was still a terrible car. None of the other cars in this list were driven any where near as hard.
icantthink4155 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2011, 01:17 PM   #25
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: DF-DUB
Posts: 640
Total Cats: 19
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppelgänger View Post
Oh the paradox...I can't say what is "manly" because I drive a Miata...yet I can say what is manily because I do drive a Miata.

I'm not knocking on the mechanicals of some American trucks and whatnot, there are a lot of them that run forever. However, it's the overall design and all the shitty interior materials are complete garbage. Nothing like being reminded of shitty plastics everytime you get into your GM made vehicle.


I'm really surprised that the Japanese mfgs. have not tried to get in on the diesel market.
Im so tired, of hearing this "Shitty interior materials." Is that all import drivers can come up with anymore. Ive heard it for every domestic car.

Have you been in a Brand new Ram? Its nice. The Tundras are the ones that are all plastic. Next time you get in a Tundra gave the shifter and shakes it and watch the whole plastic center console shift and squeek.

I do believe edmunds said the new Ram leads the full size segment in interior design and MATERIAL QUALITY.

Next time we bash a bunch of domestics lets do it for something besides horrible interior, reminds me of ricers saying "id beat it in the twisties," No longer applies.
I am not domestic biased either I have plenty of hate for domestics to.
Opti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2011, 01:24 PM   #26
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: DF-DUB
Posts: 640
Total Cats: 19
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by icantthink4155 View Post
I read the first few posts then skipped down here. Im just going to comment on the thread title.

Yes. Mostly. In my experience just about everything '95 or newer is indeed junk.

Had an 03 Cavalier a few years back. Had around 40K miles while I had it. Randomly had stuff falling off it, the chip in the key went back and would randomly shut down the fuel sender when trying to start the car. Everything in it was made of the cheapest materials they would possibly find. The speaker were just short of tracing paper.

Brother had a 04 Grand Prix, that developed a crack in the block and leaked oil into the coolant. Dont know the milage on that one though, but it was < 100K.

GF had a 2000 Impala. Biggest POS Ive ever ridden in. Always had stupid annoying crap go bad. Driving just after she bought it and all the interior lights died. Always had stuff falling off. Couldnt even replace a tire because the jack would sink right into the rust.

Mom had a few Ford Windstars ('96-98) that all developed transmission issues. As well as the Chevy equivilent van, dont remember what its called, that did the same thing.

95 Olds Cutlass Ciera. Driving home one night and I press the horn. Shorts out just about everything. Interior lights, power seats, radio, horn, power mirrors,

I have limited experience with stuff pre-95, but I had a 93 Mercury Topaz(Ford Tempo) that I beat the **** out of. Roll back burnouts, Parking brake burnouts, parking brake J turns, reverse 180s, driving like a dumbass in the snow, racing friends on the highway. Took 3 years of that beating before it needed any actual repairs. Dont get me wrong though, it was still a terrible car. None of the other cars in this list were driven any where near as hard.
Im assuming the Grand Prix was a 3.8, in which Im very surprised to hear this as the blocks are damn near bulletproof. Some shop is making like 800whp on the stock bottom ends.

the 3.8s do commonly loose intake manifold gaskets in which a shitty mechanic could misdiagnos that as a cracked block.

To whoever mentioned not shopping american for small cars:
I do really like the mazda 3 for a small car, but I reccomend when you get a chance you go drive some of the newer american offerings, I drove the cruze and really liked it, turbo and its an ecotec, whose larger brothers (2.0,2.2,2.4) have shown to be very reliable. Now Chevy has some new aveo replacement, Sonic or something like that, havent driven it but from looking at it and sitting in it you can already tell its a HUGE improvement over the Aveo.

I think all the big three have come along way since 06, compare the new malibu to the old malibu, dodge trucks, chevy stickin vvt in LS motors, Ford finally getting rid of the shitty 4.6 and 5.4, chevy volt, chrylser 300.
Opti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2011, 03:19 PM   #27
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 4,165
Total Cats: 19
Default

Speaking of small American cars, the Focus sold well and enjoyed praise in Europe as well as the states, the new Fiesta is supposed to be pretty good too. Not the mention the SRT-4, and Cobalt SS as performance contenders, they'd both beat the **** out of a Civic Si.
But, stuff like the interior being virtually the same on my dads 2002 Mustang GT as it was in a 1995 Mustang GT is unacceptable, and that only stopped in 2005 when ford started building the S197. The interior on my moms Caravan is suck, the rear cup holders don't work as cup holders, and one of them broke not too long after we bought it. The spark plugs on the 3.6 (I think) V6 are freaking impossible to get to, I genuinely think replacing them requires moving the engine in some way. The interior on my 97' Dakota wasn't great, but with the exception of the ashtray, everything held together as it should. The bushings where ****, but they all are on pickups, It had plenty of power (which I had to pay for @ 13-15mpg) and didn't handle terribly, it could be downright fun to drive, despite shitty breaks.
gearhead_318 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2011, 03:37 PM   #28
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 6,868
Total Cats: 66
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Opti View Post
Im so tired, of hearing this "Shitty interior materials." Is that all import drivers can come up with anymore. Ive heard it for every domestic car.

Have you been in a Brand new Ram? Its nice. The Tundras are the ones that are all plastic. Next time you get in a Tundra gave the shifter and shakes it and watch the whole plastic center console shift and squeek.

I do believe edmunds said the new Ram leads the full size segment in interior design and MATERIAL QUALITY.

Next time we bash a bunch of domestics lets do it for something besides horrible interior, reminds me of ricers saying "id beat it in the twisties," No longer applies.
I am not domestic biased either I have plenty of hate for domestics to.
See post #23.
I know every mfg. has their times with products. Hell, I still wonder what Mazda was thinking with the FD RX-7...talk about an interior that falls apart if you look at it the wrong way.
Also, I don't feel I am speaking for ALL domestic vehicles, mostly trucks SUVs...which I feel are made with little regard because they know people will buy the **** out of them. I'm afriad to go test drive a new 5.0....because I fear if I do, I'd start parting my car out the next day.
Doppelgänger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2011, 03:46 PM   #29
I'm Miserable!
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 180
Total Cats: 1
Default

I think every manufacturer has the potential to make crap. I used to have a 2006 honda ridgeline. The rear main seal started leaking at 62k miles. The warrenty expired at 60k. Honda helped cover about half of the cost but I still thought it was rediculous that it leaked in the first place. Most of the interior lights on the inside didn't work either and it wasn't blow bulbs or fuses. I took apart the map light assembly and the little buses that connected all of the terminals were worn out. Just cheap, cheap, cheap materials used. Also, the drivers side seat was worn out after about 40k miles. I finally ended up selling it to carmax because I was tired of it. I ended up swaping my newer truck for an older truck and my older miata for a newer one. I now have a 2007 miata with 17k on it and a 99 chevy truck with 205k on it. The truck runs great and you'd think it had half of the miles. My buddy also just bought a 97 chevy with over 300k on it and it runs great. I think it's a crap shoot.
bluemax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2011, 05:23 PM   #30
Moderator
iTrader: (11)
 
sixshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 15,687
Total Cats: 1,562
Default

The Escalade is just a Chevy in drag.
I can't believe they get that much for either one of them. My '01 Tundra is well built and reliable. I can't speak for the newest revision. My father owns a '10 Ridgeline and it is very nice inside and rides wonderfully. It is different looking but has many practical advantages.
sixshooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2011, 10:15 PM   #31
Elite Member
iTrader: (12)
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Springfield IL
Posts: 2,750
Total Cats: 24
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppelgänger View Post
Avalanche still screams "plastic POS" though. It's definitely the Scion tC of the truck market.
Noted for truth. The look like a Tupperware container..... and that's NOT a compliment. They were the laughing stock of the industry when they came out and why people buy them is beyond me.

As far as the minivans transmission going out- That is what happens when you put tons of available room on top of a car chassis. The Odyssey's were also transmission eaters because every soccer mom thought it was cool to put 1000 pounds behind the back seat and all 5 kids plus her and her hubbies obese asses into them on a constant basis.
chpmnsws6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2011, 10:24 PM   #32
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 4,165
Total Cats: 19
Default

^And caravans, and IIRC the Stratus/300M went through a lot of trannies too.
gearhead_318 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2011, 11:22 PM   #33
Elite Member
iTrader: (12)
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Longs, SC
Posts: 2,583
Total Cats: 13
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Opti View Post
Im assuming the Grand Prix was a 3.8, in which Im very surprised to hear this as the blocks are damn near bulletproof.
Dont kill me if this is a rediculous statement, but I want to say it was smaller then that. Maybe 3.6 or 3.2?
icantthink4155 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2011, 12:16 AM   #34
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: DF-DUB
Posts: 640
Total Cats: 19
Default

In 04 you could only get the 3.8, maybe the 5.3 but I think that came out a few years later.

The 3.1 was last used in the grand prix in 03.

Something good to do when thinking about interiors on older cars is to go and google a competitors car of the same vintage.

Sure people think a 2000 impala had a shitty interior,, cause its a domestic and it impossible for them to have a nice interior, but go google it and look at it then google 2000 camry interior. It makes you realize they were all ****.

Example 2000 Porsche 911 vs. 2000 Chevrolet Corvette (King of Shitty Interior Hype)
Porsche

Vette (shift ****, gauge and light are not OEM everything else is)


Both look bad (not horrible) to me, and trust me I have worked and driven the same cars of similar vintage and the porsche interior isn't miles ahead in terms of quality either, like everyone thinks. Thats just the **** they put in cars back then.

Notice the different shades of grey the porsche interior parts are.

Editors Note: both steering wheels are the ugliest thing Ive ever seen
Opti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2011, 12:39 AM   #35
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 4,165
Total Cats: 19
Default

The interior in the Porsche reminds me of the interior of my Dakota.
gearhead_318 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2011, 05:28 AM   #36
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 4,687
Total Cats: 216
Default

I get to look at this every day:


Its not anything special, but I wouldnt complain about it.
I didnt buy the car for the way the interior looked.
Full_Tilt_Boogie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 12:08 AM   #37
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: DF-DUB
Posts: 640
Total Cats: 19
Default

Where'd al the domestic hate go?
Opti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 12:10 AM   #38
Elite Member
iTrader: (12)
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Springfield IL
Posts: 2,750
Total Cats: 24
Default

Don't poke the bear...
chpmnsws6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 12:17 AM   #39
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: DF-DUB
Posts: 640
Total Cats: 19
Default

Opti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 12:38 AM   #40
Antisaint
iTrader: (17)
 
Vashthestampede's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Danbury, CT
Posts: 4,659
Total Cats: 54
Default

Hopefully, my soon to be new interior

Vashthestampede is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Back to Stock Part Out!! Turbo Parts, MS2 Enhanced 01-05, Suspension, and MOAR! StratoBlue1109 Miata parts for sale/trade 16 10-02-2015 10:39 AM
New M62 Miata owner Pist0n Meet and Greet 4 10-01-2015 09:18 PM
Bizarre connection issue? nick470 MEGAsquirt 1 09-30-2015 11:32 PM
Bad head gasket or ? shooterschmidty Engine Performance 8 09-30-2015 11:28 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:42 PM.