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Old 01-26-2011, 06:02 PM   #61
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If you talk ammo, then a 380 acp with glaser safety slugs has better stopping + killing power than a 45 slug or a 9mm with them. its what I keep in the ppk just in case, but the 357 revolver with hollow points would be what I grab for a house breakin.
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Old 01-26-2011, 06:03 PM   #62
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Also check out +p+ ammo
That's a good point -- standard pressure and even a lot of +p 9mm ammo is pretty anemic compared to the original specifications. Most modern full-size pistols should be able to handle +p+ with no problems, though if you shoot it frequently you might try bumping the recoil spring up by a couple of pounds.
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Old 01-26-2011, 06:13 PM   #63
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grizzly extreme
available in most calibers
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Old 01-26-2011, 06:19 PM   #64
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I also like the fact that I can hold 17 rounds. What does the standard 45acp hold? I also feel comfortable taking my family to the range with the 9mm but wouldn't with a 45.
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Old 01-26-2011, 07:03 PM   #65
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I saw you were talking about getting something that had cheap ammo so you wouldn't lose proficiency with it. I regularly take my Walther P22 to the range and slam a few hundred rounds through it (I would say I was plenty proficient with it). On the occasions where someone is standing next to me and offers up a "wanna try mine" I always manage to hit the target. The point I am trying to make is, IMHO, if you can shoot one gun accurately you can shoot most guns accurately as well. Of course some of you would have a problem shooting the mouse gun I carry for CCW but that is not a very good example. Anyway, I don't see cost of ammo to be a factor on what you use for home defense. For the bedroom I purchased a Remington 1100 for $100 off CL, sawed off the barrel and bought a box of 12 GA birdshot at Walmart for $20. For upstairs I purchased a bolt action shotgun with a 3 round magazine of CL for $50, sawed off the barrel and bought a box of 20GA birdshot at Walmart for $20. For $190 total I feel that I have taken steps to be relatively safe in my home. When I go to the range I shoot my $350 Walther and a $15 box of .22LRs. Two different activities "requiring" two different weapons.

Some pictures just because I feel like posting them <G>.

Mouse gun compared to the Walther:



$50 sawed off 3-shot 20 GA with $2 Walmart laser pointer:


$100 sawed off 12 GA:


Wife's 8-shot riot gun (this is what keeps me in line <G>). Good picture to compare the size against my $100 sawed off below it:
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Old 01-26-2011, 07:05 PM   #66
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Geez, that Rem 1100 was a steal. Would love to find one for $100.

EDIT:

Hey, WAIT A MINUTE, you can't buy and sell guns on Craigslist. I'll be confiscating that 1100.
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Old 01-26-2011, 07:11 PM   #67
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Geez, that Rem 1100 was a steal. Would love to find one for $100.
Yeah, I stole it. Actually, I kind of lied because I had to do some repairs to the barrel (gas cylinder collar came off). I welded it and kind of buggered it up a bit and ended up spending $80 for another barrel. It will shoot just fine in the $100 mode but wants to FTF now and then with the repaired barrel. I would love to trade it for a 20 GA but can't find anyone who wants to part with theirs for some reason.

Edit:
I know what you mean about the not selling guns. You would not believe how many times my "I want to buy a cheap ugly shotgun" post got removed. After 15 times they let it slide for a day and that is when I got both my shotguns.
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Old 01-26-2011, 07:12 PM   #68
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My XD45 holds 13+1, and I love it. Never had a single problem with it. The ammo is a little expensive, but I think its worth it. My next gun will be a KAHR 9mm for CC.
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Old 01-26-2011, 07:29 PM   #69
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Hurm, post didn't process from the phone.

So I have the .22 range pistols covered. P22 for the wife and Ruger mark II for myself.

Did idea on the wtbs... Might Try that with CL
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Old 01-26-2011, 07:50 PM   #70
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Quote:
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Oh and brgracer, I was playing with a Sub2000 at the store the other day... surprisingly useable. Backpacking rifle?
Yeah, the Sub2000, despite all it's shortcomings, is a great carbine. I love the fact that it accepts the same mags as my glock, 33 round glock mags are cheap and fun at the range, short length makes it easier to use in close quarters, folds into a small footprint to throw into a backpack/range bag/smaller safe, and accurate out to 50+ yard without a scope (and I honestly don't see a situation where I would be shooting things that far out in a real world situation). Main downside is the lack of power compared to a true rifle/AK/AR round. But it makes for an awesome portable system (if things went really bad), cross draw vest with glock 17 in the holster with two extra 17 round mags on that side, six 33 round mags in the AR mag holders on the other side, and sub2000 on a sling. Both handgun and carbine accept the same mags, and 250+ rounds on the go for the zombie apocalypse....haha.
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Old 01-26-2011, 11:47 PM   #71
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Yeah, the Sub2000, despite all it's shortcomings, is a great carbine. I love the fact that it accepts the same mags as my glock, 33 round glock mags are cheap and fun at the range, short length makes it easier to use in close quarters, folds into a small footprint to throw into a backpack/range bag/smaller safe, and accurate out to 50+ yard without a scope (and I honestly don't see a situation where I would be shooting things that far out in a real world situation). Main downside is the lack of power compared to a true rifle/AK/AR round. But it makes for an awesome portable system (if things went really bad), cross draw vest with glock 17 in the holster with two extra 17 round mags on that side, six 33 round mags in the AR mag holders on the other side, and sub2000 on a sling. Both handgun and carbine accept the same mags, and 250+ rounds on the go for the zombie apocalypse....haha.
Handled one again tonight... I will probably "have" to buy one at some point. I'll just get glock mags though... still not a Glock fan (didn't feel right to me). At least I'll be sticking to the same ammo.
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Old 01-27-2011, 12:32 AM   #72
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Just get something that is comfortable in your hand, that you can shoot accurately damned near every time, and won't be a burden to carry concealed. The last thing you want to do is feel like you're carrying a cinder block all the time and end up leaving it in a drawer somewhere or grab a weapon that makes you cringed every time you let the hammer fall when your senses are in overdrive. Caliber is always a personal preference. I actually enjoy shooting .357 mag out of snub nosed, light framed handguns and I'm not that big of a person. As mentioned earlier, there are different rounds available for plenty of stopping power. 9mm +P seems to be a happy medium between stopping power and weight depending on the cap of the magazine you choose to carry. My wife told me one day that she'd grab my gun(.40/.357) if someone ever broke into the house and I told her not to bother and just grab her .22. Instead of grabbing something she's not comfortable shooting, I'd rather have her grab a "dinky .22" and have her shoot a well placed shot when **** hits the fan.
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Old 01-27-2011, 09:05 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgeoffriau View Post
That's a good point -- standard pressure and even a lot of +p 9mm ammo is pretty anemic compared to the original specifications. Most modern full-size pistols should be able to handle +p+ with no problems, though if you shoot it frequently you might try bumping the recoil spring up by a couple of pounds.
I'm not taking either side on the arguement but there is one thing to take into account on ammo. If you ever have to defend yourself in court the prosecutor will no doubt bring up the kind of ammo you used. If you are using anything other than something you picked off the shelf at walmart the jury will be told that you were using "man-killers". I've always heard it is a good idea to keep the receipt with your ammo for that reason.
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Old 01-27-2011, 09:07 AM   #74
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Handled one again tonight... I will probably "have" to buy one at some point. I'll just get glock mags though... still not a Glock fan (didn't feel right to me). At least I'll be sticking to the same ammo.
You guys are killing me with the Sub 2000 talk. I've wanted one for a long time and you have me looking at prices again. I don't own a 9MM pistol so I'd have to get one of those as well. Oh, and a case or two of ammo.
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Old 01-27-2011, 11:23 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by rmcelwee View Post
You guys are killing me with the Sub 2000 talk. I've wanted one for a long time and you have me looking at prices again. I don't own a 9MM pistol so I'd have to get one of those as well. Oh, and a case or two of ammo.
Sorry... but they are pretty spiffy

Fairly set on caliber and model now. The M&P9 Pro model seems like the right fit. Lighter trigger pull and Trijicon night sights. The sights really are the reason I went to that model, as pulling a gun from a safe... i need sights i can see in the dark.

Probably putting the money down so it can be ordered tomorrow night.
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Old 01-27-2011, 06:34 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmcelwee View Post
If you are using anything other than something you picked off the shelf at walmart the jury will be told that you were using "man-killers". I've always heard it is a good idea to keep the receipt with your ammo for that reason.
Any competant self-defense attorney will kill that argument in a heartbeat. Best way is to counter it with "I use the ammunition used by my local police department. They trust it to work everytime and not overpenetrate, and so do I." Now, I will say that using reloads for self defense is a poor choice...

Massad Ayoob is coming to Aurora IL in April for his "Armed Citizens rules of engagement" class (Mag-20 classroom). www.massadyaboobgroup.com

I highly recommend anyone in the area that posesses a gun for self defense(either in public or at home) attend this class. Mas is one of the leading legal experts when it comes to legal use of deadly force.
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Old 01-27-2011, 07:11 PM   #77
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Massad ya boob group.... LOL

Might look into it.
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Old 01-27-2011, 08:13 PM   #78
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Quote:
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$50 sawed off 3-shot 20 GA with $2 Walmart laser pointer:
Holy ****, this has to be the most asinine thing I've ever seen.
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Old 01-27-2011, 08:18 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Chiburbian View Post
Any competant self-defense attorney will kill that argument in a heartbeat. Best way is to counter it with "I use the ammunition used by my local police department. They trust it to work everytime and not overpenetrate, and so do I." Now, I will say that using reloads for self defense is a poor choice...

Massad Ayoob is coming to Aurora IL in April for his "Armed Citizens rules of engagement" class (Mag-20 classroom). www.massadyaboobgroup.com
Massad was actually someone who I have heard talk about keeping the receipt with the ammo.

Yes, use what the cops use (I did not mention that). Actually, what do you do? Walk up to them and ask them to empty out their mag so you can see what is in there <G>. Anyway, what I am saying is that if you use a brand of ammo that is ++P and has a picture of a bloody skull with a knife sticking through it on the box your lawyer will not be happy.
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Old 01-27-2011, 08:19 PM   #80
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Holy ****, this has to be the most asinine thing I've ever seen.
Haters gotta hate. What do you find wrong with it?

Before:


After:


I thought it was a pretty cool and inexpensive project. It will also fit under a trench coat and blow a hole through someones chest.
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