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Old 04-10-2009, 11:58 PM   #1
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Default Prefered FMU?

I see a **** load of members ordered the Adaptronic for their cars. I was even thinking about doing it. Then I realized, I spent all this time getting my MS to work and now I'm gonna **** it away and get something different? Why? So this thread is me asking, what do you guys prefer? I wanted to run bigger injectors than a voo-doo box could handle and have timing control, so I went with a MS-1 in parallel, with the CAS retrofit. I don't need launch control, EBC, or anything else except fuel and timing. That was my reasoning...chime in fellas.
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Old 04-11-2009, 12:26 AM   #2
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The MS and the Adaptronic have virtually identical capabilities in terms of their ability to handle the basic stuff like fuel and spark.

Both have fuel autotune, both can operate fully standalone, etc. The Adaptronic adds a few nice features such as alternator control and closed-loop VVT control for the later NBs as well as their rather interesting spark advance autotune, whereas the MS has the advantage of being roughly $700 cheaper.

Asking which one somebody prefers is rather like asking whether they are partial to redheads or brunettes.
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Old 04-11-2009, 12:32 AM   #3
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Adaptronic all the way baby!!!
(though I'm heavily biased)

Adaptronic also has launch control, boost by gear, and a few other features that I have not heard of on MS, and the most important thing TO ME: it is already completely assembled, and has a pnp harness for the 99+. For a person that completely sucks at electronics and the like, this makes a world of difference and I'd get it all over again if I had to.

PS: Travis is also very helpful to us noobs and pretty much walks us through anything we dont understand. To me this is a huge plus.
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Old 04-11-2009, 12:38 AM   #4
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Well Joe, I like Blondes. Yes the MS is cheaper, but it also has a 12x12 VE table, which some people think is absurd. Not me. I think it does what it needs to. When you rev your engine, do you go 100RPM at a time? No. If you're like me, you stand it to the floor and watch the tach spin which moves so fast 100RPM increments mean nothing. I guess I'm trying to say...I like the MS. I don't have VVT, but spark advance autotune? I didn't even know about that. That's getting pretty hard core!
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Old 04-11-2009, 12:41 AM   #5
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Boost by gear is also SICK. and a PnP Stand that doesn't cost over 2 grand? That's the cat's meow.
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Old 04-11-2009, 12:52 AM   #6
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One area that I think DOES lack on the Adaptronic is the Target AFR table. It's only 20 cells. You have 1000, 3000, 5000, 7000 and 0kPa, 75kPa, 150kPa, 225kPa and 300kPa. So really I only have 16 useable as 300kPa is useless to me. 225kPa is also over anything that I will see. I wish it could be scaled better to offer more control over low RPMs and cruise MAP pressures.

That being the case, it's just for the autotune and once it is pretty close and then dyno tuned it's a moot point.
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Old 04-11-2009, 09:42 AM   #7
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I don't really see a need for a larger AFR target table. Assuming the Adaptronic interpolates between cells like the MS does, you really only need to have a cell for idle, a couple to define the boundaries of light cruise, a couple to define the boundaries of boost, and maybe a pair at peak torque.

I mean, assume we're at 3,000 RPM. At light cruise, we'll say we want 14.7:1. At the transition into boost (100kPa), say we want 13:1, and at 15 psi, say you want 12:1. You might add a boundary cell of 14.1:1 at ~70 kPa, to prevent the system from scaling towards the 13:1 cell until youre at 70, but apart from that, you don't need any more data.

So you create one of those columns at idle, one at 2,500, another at 4,000, and another at 6,000. That's only 16 values you need to define.



As to the size of VE tables, I think we might be reaching a point of diminishing returns. Remember the Link? It only had a 6x6 VE table. So the MS1 has 4x the resolution of the Link, the MS2 is roughly double that at 16x16, and the Adaptronic has... I have no idea. But since all these ECUs do a good job of interpolating between cells, and since engines tend not to have massively abrupt changes in VE along their operating range, after a certian point, more resolution only means more time spent tuning.


Oh, and yeah, the MS supports Launch Control.


Don't get me wrong- the Adaptronic is a very cool ECU. If money were no object (and I wasn't an avid tinkerer) I'd probably pick it over the MS. However, money does tend to be an object sometimes.
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Old 04-11-2009, 09:50 AM   #8
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Spark advance autotune requires a knock sensor or what?
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Old 04-11-2009, 09:31 PM   #9
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I believe it does. The way I understand that it works, is that the ecu measures the way the engine behaves under different loads and determines if what you have for timing can be advanced a certain amount without any negative effects. once it advances it it monitors some more, etc.
As far as launch control: I know ms supports launch control, but I guess what I was trying to say is that adaptronic already has it built in and set up. You adjust the properties to your liking and you're done.
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