y8s

iTrader: (8)

that turbodog beer is nothin special. just your average porter.

MX5-4me

I didn't know Hustler was the POTUS .. That expalins a lot... ;-)

TurboTim

iTrader: (9)

This thread makes me a little more happy Bill hired Jeremy instead of me.

I'm glad to see FM/Bill/Keith/Jeremy here though! It's gonna be fun.

budget racer

iTrader: (1)

just want to give FM a thumbs up for revising their return policy.

Also wanna thank Keith for trying to make things right with my bad experience. I'm not sure they have won me back yet, but it's a step in the right direction.

hustler

iTrader: (6)

lolol

when you're a jet, you're a jet till ya die!


edit: now you guys are really going to think I'm gay. there's pretty much no turning back at this point.

MX5-4me

This is a Miata forum no level of gay surprises us...

cueball1

iTrader: (13)

I didn't see it mentioned earlier so I will. The 19% correction is to give them SAE #'s according to FM. They ain't publishing or advertising RWHP.

Hustler, it isn't that you know lyrics to musicals, it's the 4000+ posts with <100hp.

Keith@FM

iTrader: (1)

cueball, it's the SAE correction for RWHP as discussed earlier in this thread. We ain't publishing anything but RWHP, never have.

cueball1

iTrader: (13)

Sorry, I didn't understand. I always thought SAE #'s were what manufacturers published, not rwhp. It made sense to me that you might publish #'s that match up to how automakers rate hp.

I always wondered what it sounded like when my a** did the talking.

Sorry.

jayc72

iTrader: (14)

Keith@FM

iTrader: (1)

The manufacturers quote HP according to an SAE standard - but you can't test that with the engine in the car. We use a different SAE standard for climate correction. It's a reasonable mistake to make.

fmowry

iTrader: (8)

Don't let this thread die. Can the Shiv bashing continue? Hell, there's a few top Suby tuners who have less than kind words to say about him.

Frank

spike

^ what did they say? spill it,we need to know.

saint_foo

Hehe...you should dig up the thread where Nathan from TurboXS told Hill at Agile that they could pay him to show him how to use the dyno. Apparently they were giving out REALLY messed up dyno plots. Good ol' NASIOC drama.



http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...5&postcount=49


a snippet:

They have proven they are not capable of dealing with a UTEC equipped car. They have also proven they are not capable of pressing the page up key on the dyno software to get away from gear multiplied torque. They have proven they need to revisit dynapack school, and that they should not be tuning UTECs until they learn to understand the system. They have also proven that they can let a car leave the dyno that is knocking so badly that the owner can not go WOT. Take a look at the yellow run in the Agile plot. See the huge dip around 4-5k? That’s UTEC’s knock correction. The yellow plot (last in the set of 6 on a dynapack) is being used to show peak HP on a run that was detonating badly.

Guys there are plenty of other shops around that can actually tune a UTEC. I’d stay away from these guys until they learn how to; 1. Use their dyno, 2. Tune a UTEC.



and a followup post:

You need to learn to hit the page up button on your dyno software. This takes the torque and pulls the gear ratio out of it and puts it into terms that most people understand. Your dyno software is capable of both. If you want to use the standard measurement that is seen in almost every dyno in the US you need to put torque into relation with the crank not the gearing.

The HP on the other hand stays the same since the formula for HP is related to RPM. The gearing while increasing torque lowers RPM.

Please do us all a favor and learn how your dyno works and how our EMS works.

Our plots almost all say “flywheel” across them because we are expressing torque in relationship to the rotation of the flywheel not the hub. Our power figures are unchanged as we are not changing the torque correction factor. Agile on the other hand is adding 24% to their numbers with their TCF.


NOTE: of course this was back in Feb, 2004. No hate for Agile...just like to bust out the popcorn for drama.

rb26dett

This thread is gold :-) Highly recommended for a boring evenings read!

I have nothing to add, so I'll just say this : MS2/V3.0 FTW ..... for now

AbeFM

iTrader: (3)

Heh, I think I sent a pack up once myself, don't recall why. But you guys certainly helped me out quite a bit some years ago - in fact, when I'd still bought very little from you.

Kudos to that, an intelligent decision. Not really enough to get me going there first, though. No dirt to dig up or laundry to air, but I'll say I've consistently gotten worse support from FM, and blatant ignoring of questions or even fixes I've suggested over the past couple years. The support has been less helpful and the the prices no lower. The couple times I almost broke down and bought a Hydra, I found answers to be wanting. It almost seems the more money I spend the worse the support. So I've more or less stopped.

I'm not saying I won't use FM in the future, and I think when they finally - as a company, in their entirety - notice a problem, they make it right. Better than you can say for most shops.

The worst thing that's happened with them recently is I bought the intercooler upgrade - let alone some of the advice didn't add up and the ridiculous boost creep to 14-15 psi I get till I machined my own fix for it - no, the only thing that really bugs me is my own fault: I didn't see any option to get the bigger intercooler on the webpage, so I'd assumed it's what I got. I took it out, painted it, then though "gee, it doesn't look bigger" and lo and behold, it was the same size as the old one I took out.

Well, I'm not spending $850 for a new kit, and I can't expect FM to take back an IC I painted, so I'm stuck with it. I certainly can't blame them for not telling me I was getting the small one when I didn't specifically ask... but in the mean time while I appreciate the better response over the maze of the old design, I sure wish I had a bigger intercooler.

Well, I haven't dealt with BEGI or FFS, but it certainly sums up my (recent) experiences 100% with FM. I'm surprised at the difference, really, and can't place my finger on it. There was a time where I'd say "You'll pay more, but it's worth it" and now I just can't make that recommendation.

fmowry

iTrader: (8)

There certainly is (or was) a lot more smack talk amongst tuners in Nasioc than vendors in general in the Miata world. Probably because there are a lot more choices for Suby owners. I sold my FP greened FXT to Brickhoss. I sorta miss it but I'm currently swapping an LS6 into the Miata. Too bad MAIC has a spy here at MT.net. Now I can't overcharge you guys for Miata parts in the MAIC Miata thread.

Frank

TurboTim

iTrader: (9)

Interesting. Towards the end of 2004 I had my STi tuned in Maryland at TurboXS by Nathan and Jermaine. After over 4 hours of tuning on their dynapack and 30 mins of driving around (the only time I've ever let anyone drive one of my cars when I wasn't in the car, AND in my new STi, scary), I still had to stop at the first rest area on I-95 and disconnect the Utec. The tune was absolutely horrible. It ran awesome at WOT, but anything less than 90% throttle was undriveable.

But if it wasn't for that bad experience and another with Dealer Alt. in NJ, both "experts" in their related car community, I wouldn't have learned all I could about tuning myself, which lead to learing how to weld and fabricate, etc.

OK enough thread drift.

fmowry

iTrader: (8)

This thread ain't going anywhere else. I'm not a big fan of TurboXS either. Nathan knew his **** but I think Jermaine has been learning on the job. Everyone will have a bad experience with various tuners. In the Subaru community I had Jorge Carillo tune my car. He was one of the early adopters of aftermarket tunes on Subies along with Nathan and Phil Grabow who also worked at TurboXS. I have had a bad experience with another well known Suby tuner so it's really hit or miss.

Now I'm looking for a respectable EFIlive or HPtuners tuner to do my Ls6 swap. I might as well maximize the ECU for the octane and cam I'm running. Since I've got an '04 GTO ecu and will have a Z06 motor, I've got some tweakng to do.

Frank