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Old 02-07-2013, 08:02 PM   #1
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Default Vader rods

Vader rods-vader-rods.jpg

Thought you like to check out some new con rods.

AL racing rods.

FFWD Connection - Race Injuns That Will Freeze Your Brain

I thought they were just flat out sexy, and wanted to share.

For a new sheet design, the price is not as much as expected.

*edit* These just came out 5 Feb 2013.

They were designed by an engine builder, not an engineer.
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:23 PM   #2
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They look just like every BME rod I've ever seen.
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:24 PM   #3
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:33 PM   #4
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I would very much like to try some aluminum rods in an NA build, maybe for the catfish kit car.
Now the question is forged(BME) or billet(R&R, GRP) rods?

And after reading the description of the Vader rods-does anyone really believe that cryo treatment has any effect on aluminum?
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:39 PM   #5
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I am sure they do.

It is about the big end girth that has been addressed, like not having to notch the block.

Try fitting the BME in a stock SBC, and there is clearance issues all over the place.

The Vader rods fit in a stock block with out the clearance issues found with most of the other aftermarket al rods.
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Old 02-07-2013, 09:12 PM   #6
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I would never run aluminum rods on the street. Would probably have to change them with the oil.
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Old 02-07-2013, 09:17 PM   #7
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I want to see them survive. I like to see new cool stuff. From an engineers prospective who has never run any analysis on a conrod, some parts of that geometry do not make sense.

Also Just a guess...if you are building an engine where the cost & life cycle issues on an aluminum rod are worthwhile, notching the block or using a block where notching is not needed or minimal, is not an issue.
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Old 02-07-2013, 09:49 PM   #8
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So i read that link. I like those guys. Their writing style makes me chuckle and its fun to read.

But being a lead design engineer at a company that builds race aluminum parts out of "proprietary" alloy, knowing what makes a strong or durable alum part, some of what they are hyping there...

Prostock do not run alum rods. Top fuel do.
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:16 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth97 View Post
I would never run aluminum rods on the street. Would probably have to change them with the oil.
Check out What BME says about there Al rods....
BME Forged Aluminum Rods
The Only Streetable Aluminum Rod

Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboTim View Post
I want to see them survive. I like to see new cool stuff. From an engineers prospective who has never run any analysis on a conrod, some parts of that geometry do not make sense.

Also Just a guess...if you are building an engine where the cost & life cycle issues on an aluminum rod are worthwhile, notching the block or using a block where notching is not needed or minimal, is not an issue.
I would say there is a small number running decent power with AL rods on the street.

As for the design of it, I have no Idea, Most my working life has been with heads.

As far as the block issue, it is just makes life simpler, not having to notch, or notch as much.
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:10 PM   #10
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Things I learned:


FFWD rods are "not designed by a tie-clad, Khaki-wearing CAD geek," which is a pretty good description of the type of person I would trust to design a rod.


BME owns a machine which is called a BeaverMatic.

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Old 02-07-2013, 11:40 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Things I learned:


FFWD rods are "not designed by a tie-clad, Khaki-wearing CAD geek," which is a pretty good description of the type of person I would trust to design a rod.
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:44 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboTim View Post
So i read that link. I like those guys. Their writing style makes me chuckle and its fun to read.

But being a lead design engineer at a company that builds race aluminum parts out of "proprietary" alloy, knowing what makes a strong or durable alum part, some of what they are hyping there...

Prostock do not run alum rods. Top fuel do.
All these things. They might be good rods, but that page reads like an anti ad to an engineer...
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:05 AM   #13
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Hey guys. A buddy of ours sent me this link to where our Vader rods were being shared. After reading the above comments, it seems that you may have questions and/or have been misled in the past on the use of Al rods on the street or otherwise. Not to mention, their design in general as well as choice of words in my ad seems to bother some on here.

I'll be happy to address them as I can shoot it to you straight with no BS.

I can't guarantee how long I can keep checking this page as it's been pretty busy around here, but I'll do my best to keep up.

Fire away.
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:42 AM   #14
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" hey brah, we cryo treat these rods and pass on the cost plus profit, does it work? No idea but but you dont get a choice."

Anyone else read that bit?

Dann
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:02 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrodann View Post
" hey brah, we cryo treat these rods and pass on the cost plus profit, does it work? No idea but but you dont get a choice."

Anyone else read that bit?

Dann
Hey man. One thing out of the way...we don't do anything unless it works. We don't needlessly spend people's money. Simple. If you knew how we operated our shop since 1999 like most of the DSM guys out there already know, you'd see that this is quite true.

We have built 4G63 race motors for the past 13 years and guess what? We cryo treated every motor we did as standard practice just because we knew that it worked. We don't like to offer substandard parts if we know something else is better to use.

So it went without saying, yes, we were going to do the same with our rods we've designed. No question about it.

We also never did have one return in all those years on a motor build. That's a huge deal as those were used in a racing environment with us having no control over their installation and/or use. We feel that many factors rolled up as a whole (including cryo processing) has a lot to do with that track record.

One thing to point out, with all things considered, we're basically not even charging for cryo processing services with these rods. You receive it as a "freebie" to show appreciation that you recognize the best when you see it.

We did this as well with our motors...which is even a larger deal as a longblock sure as hell weighs more than a set of 4 banger rods...heavier it is, the more money it will be to maintain -300 degrees for 24 hours.

We'd rather have happy customers and no returns, than unhappy ones with issues. If it means digging into our pockets to make it so (with decreased profit margins in the process), be it so.

Thanks for asking!
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:10 AM   #16
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I don't think it doesnt work, but take it as feedback, its pretty easy to read it that way.
I would never openly suggest that people dont believe a product works and then say "well it does, trust us we are experts".

Thankyou for the direct reply.

Dann
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:17 AM   #17
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That descriptive writing is definitely quite interesting.
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:20 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrodann View Post
I don't think it doesnt work, but take it as feedback, its pretty easy to read it that way.
I would never openly suggest that people dont believe a product works and then say "well it does, trust us we are experts".

Thankyou for the direct reply.

Dann
Done and done.

But if you would like more info into this process, do a Google search on cryo processing. We're not expecting people to believe us...just read up on the subject and be your own judge. We encourage people to use their brains.

Cryo processing is nothing new or mysterious. Been around forever buddy. I just think you need to be a bit more informed on the process.
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:25 AM   #19
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Being condescending wont help either.

I'm not offended but others might be.

Dann
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:30 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrodann View Post
Being condescending wont help either.

I'm not offended but others might be.

Dann
I'm sorry that you read it that way buddy...but it certainly wasn't my intention.

I speak it as I see it. Sorry that you (or anyone else) took it personally.
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