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Old 02-08-2013, 11:41 AM   #41
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Having recently taken several materials science and strength of materials courses, my thinking on this is similar to Tim. There is little change in the treated aluminium, though forgings, weldments and possibly machined parts would see a benefit in stress relief.

Here is some supporting documentation from a NASA experiment on cryo treating an unspecified alloy of aircraft grade aluminium. Granted the article stub doesn't give the specific alloy tested but the conclusions confirm what has been said.
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:24 PM   #42
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Old 02-08-2013, 01:01 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darren View Post
Third, we did not weaken the part by making it easier to install...and I'm quite surprised you would say that so pretentiously. That wold be stupid to do that. Do you think we like people coming back to us pissed off?
I do not know you, but I would be confident guessing that no, you do not like people coming back to you pissed off. I have never run an analysis on a connecting rod, I admit. But I also feel confident guessing that decreasing the radius where the big end blends into the stem decreases the overall strenth, compared to a traditional aluminum rod that has a huge radius there and requires appropriate block clearance.

Quote:
We did lots of stress analysis to come up with the best balance we thought for the situation of being "builder friendly". I'm not going to say it's perfect for everyone's platform and/or scenario...as that would be impossible...but at least we're aware of the building process when designing and using Al rods.
Wait, did not you just say you did not weaken the part to make it easier to install? Now you are saying you made a compromise...I mean balance...between strength and ease of installation? Which is it?

I do think you came up with a good compromise between strength and user friendliness...just my personal opinion looking at it and guessing, again not personally actually running an analysis.

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Beef rods are not necessarily the strongest...there are many other factors involved. I've seen them break just as easily as a China built steel rod.
There's always something stronger. Life's a balancing act.

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Regardless, we feel we've got a really good balance between the two...strength and the least amount of frustration for the builder when using them.
Ahh ok, so you did compromise on the design. Got it.

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BTW...don't know in your neck of the woods on what goes on, but there are plenty of Pro Stock guys that use Al rods my friend. We know because we've sold the the older versions to those guys all over the world for at least 15 years.
OK my bad.

So far 3 of 4 have said they are not running aluminum rods, 2 were adamant about it, and that one guy didn't say he wasn't running steel, just that you won't gain anything switching to steel or ti (I thought ti wasn't allowed in PS, but whatev). These are current prostock engine builders I've talked to since last night. These guys all make engines for cars who consistently qualify, and one of them might hold the current MPH record

But like all things Prostock, what works for one team will be completely opposite for another.
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Old 02-08-2013, 05:01 PM   #44
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Wow! All I wanted to do is show off some pretty rods.


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Originally Posted by kaisersoze View Post
I would very much like to try some aluminum rods in an NA build, maybe for the catfish kit car.
Now the question is forged(BME) or billet(R&R, GRP) rods?

And after reading the description of the Vader rods-does anyone really believe that cryo treatment has any effect on aluminum?
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Originally Posted by triple88a View Post
It doesnt say that they are forged anywhere either.
Looks like they can come either way, forged or billet.

I linked Darren to this thread, so He could answer the more technical questions.

Like any other product, there has been R&D, along with many revisions to the rod before the final plan was made.

I am sure Darren has installed a couple sets of these rods in a few engines for dyno runs, and a season or two of real life drag racing.

How many here have run AL rods before?

I do know and understand there is a huge difference between a Miata engine built for road racing, and a 4g63 built for drag racing.
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Old 02-08-2013, 05:24 PM   #45
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Darren gets what i originally said, this forum aint for BS and talk, give us numbers, analysis sheets, how many hours at 7000rpm they will last with what weight pistons etc etc.

Get to the point with facts please, then we will love you.

Dann
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Old 02-08-2013, 05:46 PM   #46
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Darren, thanks for hanging out with us. AL rods have always intrigued me a bit.

Could you scale your design down to tolerate less power (say 400whp instead of the 1000++++whp they're probably designed for) and make them significantly lighter? (say 30% lighter than they currently are)
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Old 02-08-2013, 05:49 PM   #47
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Darren,
I may be misreading, but maybe you can clear this up...

Do you do tensile and fatigue testing on your product? Did you do the same testing to compare forged vs. billet blanks? Or with cryo treating?

Your previous posts make it sound like the testing was irrelevant because you knew billet / cryo "worked".
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Old 02-08-2013, 05:53 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
Darren,
I may be misreading, but maybe you can clear this up...

Do you do tensile and fatigue testing on your product? Did you do the same testing to compare forged vs. billet blanks? Or with cryo treating?

Your previous posts make it sound like the testing was irrelevant because you knew billet / cryo "worked".
There's tensile in my fatigues.
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Old 02-09-2013, 10:50 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
There's tensile in my fatigues.
I hope you have a high young's modulus.
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Old 02-10-2013, 05:27 PM   #50
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It strikes me that this is a irrelevant discussion, as we will likely never have an option to run these rods.
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