|
VW is responsible for rolling global coal warming?
How is there no thread on this VW diesel story yet? 11 million cars that may need a recall of some kind? It seems like the solution I've seen so far would knock 10mpg off the highway economy and significantly decrease hp.
Discuss. (or point me toward the thread that should already exist). |
cause no one actually gives a shit?
|
1 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 1269393)
cause no one actually gives a shit?
Every time I've ever changed the oil on a VW anything, it's always been watery black goop filled with w/e globs of crud. |
my dad has a few new turbodiesel vw's at the shop
he showed me some of the crap they're equipped with that fails often blew my mind how overcomplicated and terrible they are example: the "diesel exhaust fluid" system. wowwwwww another example: the constantly clogging fuel system and on and on and on I hear the previous gens were a whole lot more simple |
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 1269393)
cause no one actually gives a shit?
|
I blame Obama
|
Why not leverage the "tune by usecase" further instead? :confused:
GPS could enable less NOx urban, and less CO2 extraurban. What would be wrong with that? But coal driven electrics are much more PC. |
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1269406)
I blame Obama
|
They are producing more NOx emissions, probably less C02 emissions.
In the fight for lower emissions these two types are in opposition. Very difficult to reduce one without increasing the other. I question whether we are trying to regulate to the right mix of allowable emissions. Allot of the schemes to reduce overall emissions actually increase C02. Particulate emissions is an example particulates are reduced by turning carbon particulates into CO2 capturing them in a trap in the exhaust then combining the carbon with oxygen basically by burning it with more fuel. The reduction of several things directly requires the burning of more fuel. NOx is best reduced with adding an SCR catalyst to the exhaust with urea injection. It separates the Nitrogen and sets it free. In efforts to avoid having to fill an additional tank of fluid to carry around many attempts to reduce NOX have been done by using massive amounts of exaust gas recirculation (EGR). That’s how anybody without an on board piss tank is attempting to do it. NOX- Primary pollutants that produce photochemical smog, acid rain, and nitrate particulates. Destruction of stratospheric ozone. Human health impact. CO2- Most common greenhouse gas |
Is this the thread where I remind pretty much EVERYONE ON THIS SITE that every time someone asks "what kind of car should I get?" EVERYONE ON THIS SITE says "JSW TDI"?
|
and by everyone you of course mean the 3-4 people that have some seriously strange fetish-like obsession with diesel and hatred toward hybrids?
I gotta way though, the prev gen tdi's seem to be much less complicated and much more popular than the most current gen. PS: I would love to own a new VW if it were under warranty adn I never had to work on it. |
I wonder if VW TDIs will be any cheaper on the used market after they issue whatever fix they come up with. If customers are suddenly getting a lot less hp and lower fuel economy, they may not see the value anymore. It's pretty easy to throw a tune on those things, right? Not that I want to buy a VW anytime soon.
|
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1269429)
and by everyone you of course mean the 3-4 people that have some seriously strange fetish-like obsession with diesel and hatred toward hybrids?
I gotta way though, the prev gen tdi's seem to be much less complicated and much more popular than the most current gen. PS: I would love to own a new VW if it were under warranty adn I never had to work on it. this is a website full of emissions cheaters... how many times have you enabled the rear o2 defeat on a subby? |
I could care less about cheating emissions. Neva eva cared about that
I do care about overcomplicated cars that are a nightmare to work on doe |
Granted we here are the vast exception to the rule.
|
1 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1269444)
I do care about overcomplicated cars that are a nightmare to work on doe
They are, quite literally, two of worst vehicles I have ever seen. Not only do they fail often, but they tend to do so rather spectacularly and at great cost. To replace the starter on one, for instance, the first step in the manual is "remove engine." That wasn't so big a deal back on the Beetle, but it's a tad involved when you're hoisting a V10 with more hoses and fittings on it than an early 80s Honda. One of them ate its own high-pressure fuel pump, in the process of which it distributed fine particles of whatever metal-like substance it's made from all throughout the injectors and rails. That wasn't cheap to fix. Electrical system woes... I'd wager that the CEL on one of them has spent more of its life illuminated than not. My sister owned a Jetta for a while. That car used to literally leave pieces of itself on the road. Body panel fasteners, fender liners... I'm amazed it never just fell to pieces like the Bluesmobile did when Jake & Elwood finally arrived at the tax assessor's office. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1443124208 I honestly don't know why VW is still in business. They've forgotten how to car. |
1 Attachment(s)
:laugh:
on a different forum, we have a specific smiley type in :vw: out comes https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1443125238 |
3 Attachment(s)
Edit: Why can't we type in the word "gr@ss"? Or more importantly ".../pictures_of_plants/gr@ss.jpg"
In the battle between NOx and CO2, why are we even worried about CO2 in the first place? Nature has already invented the perfect catalyst for converting it: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1443128987 And THE BEST PART IS: THEY ARE FOUND IN IMMEASURABLE QUANTITIES THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE PLANET!!! https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1443128987 http://conservationgardenpark.org/fi...-Mix-Fruit.jpg https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1443128987 https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...aulmannix).jpg Only 1/3rd of the earths surface is covered in land, Only 2/3rds of it is covered in water, but nearly ALL of it is covered in these little gems called chloroplasts!!! CO2 and sunshine go in, O2 and fuel source come out... In fact, I postulate that the faster we put more CO2 into the atmosphere, the faster we will be able to grow our "renewable energy" sector, because without this valuable CO2, they simply can't produce anything. If we could save the life of just one big animal, wouldn't it be worth it? Save the Whales, burn all of the gas!! More CO2 --> More Phytoplankton --> More Zooplankton --> More Krill --> More Blue Whales!!! |
Purdue conducted a plant study in which the researchers pumped higher than normal doses of CO2 around some plants. (major simplification of course)
The results: The plants grew much faster than normal, and seemed to be limited by the amount of nutrients they could uptake from the soil. CO2 is only a problem when it becomes fixed in the atmosphere leading to increased temperatures. |
VW is failing emmissions by making less than prescribed C02 and more than Prescribed NOX. they are more fuel efficent in that process. NOX comes from lean burn.
|
gotta meet those mpg standards somehow...
|
I find it odd that I'm seeing stories now on social media about how VW owners "feel betrayed" by Volkswagen.
Betrayed by the fact that the company boosted both the performance and fuel economy of the vehicle while still cheating its way through emissions testing. Isn't that the exact thing which people willingly pay hundreds of dollars for to companies which sell ECU reflashing services? |
Exactly.
|
Originally Posted by Joe Perez
(Post 1269542)
I find it odd that I'm seeing stories now on social media about how VW owners "feel betrayed" by Volkswagen.
Betrayed by the fact that the company boosted both the performance and fuel economy of the vehicle while still cheating its way through emissions testing. Isn't that the exact thing which people willingly pay hundreds of dollars for to companies which sell ECU reflashing services? |
I think VW deserves full points for thinking outside the the box. It's kinda a "Kobayashi Maru" scenario. Given an unwinnable situatation ,they did what was necessary to win. I don't currently own a VW but have owned a several of their diesel cars in the past so I don't really have a dog in this fight . If I owned a current TDI car , the last thing I'd do , would be to take it to the dealer for whatever " fix" they eventually come up with . At least until it's proven not to cost HP and miles per gallon . Really with this kind of attitude they should be running a NASCAR team. It's not about what the rules say , it's what you think you can get away with. Cheers Fred
|
Originally Posted by patsmx5
(Post 1269546)
This is the only reasoning I can see that would explain why VW owners affected would "feel betrayed", maybe they actually did care about emissions as a selling point, I suppose someone out there considers that important when shopping. That person isn't me.....
No hate for diesels. Good torque, good economy. But if you're an emissions-weenie, you're gonna be looking at Tesla / Insight / Volt / etc. I also find the recall hilarious. Hilarious in a sad way, like when you trip over a dead clown on the subway platform, and there's a little honking sound. (It happens more often than you'd think.) The sad part is that now, as a VW owner, you have to completely avoid going to the dealership for any kind of service whatsoever, even if you're still under warranty. |
1 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by fredb
(Post 1269548)
I think VW deserves full points for thinking outside the the box.
I mean, it was kind of short-sighted to assume they'd never get caught, but the fundamental concept is clever as hell. I can't recall any OEM ever having the balls to pull a stunt like this.
Originally Posted by fredb
(Post 1269548)
It's kinda a "Kobayashi Maru" scenario. Given an unwinnable situatation ,they did what was necessary to win.
|
I wonder if they were really " caught " or if a pissed off former employee ratted them out. It was a pretty clever solution, maybe not quite clever enough.
|
1 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by fredb
(Post 1269552)
I wonder if they were really " caught " or if a pissed off former employee ratted them out. It was a pretty clever solution, maybe not quite clever enough.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1443141294 |
FWIW VW was not the first company to employ this exact scheme of cheating on emissions tests. Cummins and Navistar both got caught back in 1998 running software to detect when they were being tested. VW didn’t even invent the technology can't give them credit for being innovative only for being a cheater.
|
Originally Posted by fredb
(Post 1269552)
I wonder if they were really " caught " or if a pissed off former employee ratted them out. It was a pretty clever solution, maybe not quite clever enough.
However, It is surprising that it wasn't an insider tipping somebody off, especially over a 7 year period. |
Originally Posted by bbundy
(Post 1269554)
FWIW VW was not the first company to employ this exact scheme of cheating on emissions tests. Cummins and Navistar both got caught back in 1998 running software to detect when they were being tested.
I don't know anything about the Cummins situation, but wasn't Navistar's problem not that they were deliberately cheating the emissions test, but merely that the EGR system which they came up with in an effort to avoid the cost of implementing DEF turned out not to work especially well, and therefore basically fucked them squarely in the goat-hole? Fun fact: DEF (Diesel Exhaust Fluid) is basically just synthetic cat piss diluted in water. |
Given what I observe around here ,I'm much more concerned with what railway locomotives and an dorks with jacked up diesel trucks that chipped and returboed are spewing into the atmosphere . VW may have numbers on their side but there are certainly more conspicuous polluters out there. The ships coming and going from the harbour in Vancouver aren't what I'd call Green for that matter either. It's unlikely this situation will end neatly now that lawyers are involved and smell $$. It's like Shark Chow on the Great Barrier Reef. Good time to stand clear.
|
Originally Posted by Joe Perez
(Post 1269560)
Fun fact: DEF (Diesel Exhaust Fluid) is basically just synthetic cat piss diluted in water. |
2 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by fredb
(Post 1269562)
(railway locomotives and ships)
Here in NYC, the vast majority of our rail network is electrified, but trains on certain routes (Metro North to Poughkeepsie, NJTrans on several lines, and all of Amtrack outside the Penn tunnel) use GE Genesis diesels. They are not particularly clean-running. Something tells me, however, that every containership and freight locomotive on earth would pale in comparison to a single large coal-electric plant in the US. Or, put another way, going after a passenger-car company for being a few points over the NOx limit while nuclear plant construction is barely just crawling along is like pointing out a crooked picture on the Titanic while the Vogons are assembling in orbit.
Originally Posted by fredb
(Post 1269562)
an dorks with jacked up diesel trucks that chipped and returboed are spewing into the atmosphere.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1443145461 "Look, ma! No brains!"
Originally Posted by fredb
(Post 1269562)
now that lawyers are involved and smell $$. It's like Shark Chow on the Great Barrier Reef. Good time to stand clear.
|
And for bonus points , electric car owners will still claim their cars are emission free while charging from those same coal fired plants but I digress.
|
[QUOTE=Joe Perez;1269575]
The rollin' coal crowd make me sad. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1443145461 [I]"Look, ma! No brains ! You've been to Kamloops ? or is that not just a local phenomenon ? |
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 1269417)
if he hadn't made emission standards so strict, they wouldn't be forced to cheat.
Tier 2 Diesel emissions standards were passed into law in 1999 |
Originally Posted by fredb
(Post 1269582)
You've been to Kamloops ? or is that not just a local phenomenon ?
But no, it's a very widespread phenomenon. We have it all over the US, especially in the south-eastern states where "redneck" is not considered to be an insult. I honestly have no idea why people think it's cool to spend money in order to modify their trucks to transform diesel fuel into smoke and antisocial behavior. Especially when forcibly having intercourse with their intoxicated cousins is both cheaper and can be made into a team sport. EDIT: Wait... You're telling me that not all Canadians are polite and socially-conscious? My worldview is shattered. |
Unfortunately, we have our share of idiots too. Nor is it isolated to diesel trucks ....locally there is even a "stanced" Miata 😫 . And No it's not mine !
|
2 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by fredb
(Post 1269591)
Unfortunately, we have our share of idiots too. Nor is it isolated to diesel trucks ....locally there is even a "stanced" Miata �� . And No it's not mine !
At work, my team just installed a new switcher made by Ross Video, a company located in Iroquois, ON. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1443153753 It's a big, expensive piece of equipment. They're sending some people out next month to commission it and train our staff on how to use and maintain it. Today, we had a conference call to discuss the schedule for this. The two reps from Ross were so damn polite and complimentary that it was actually kind of funny (as compared to dealing with TV & film people from NYC and LA most of the time.) |
Originally Posted by Joe Perez
(Post 1269560)
Well, first to deploy it at the consumer level, at the very least.
I don't know anything about the Cummins situation, but wasn't Navistar's problem not that they were deliberately cheating the emissions test, but merely that the EGR system which they came up with in an effort to avoid the cost of implementing DEF turned out not to work especially well, and therefore basically fucked them squarely in the goat-hole? Fun fact: DEF (Diesel Exhaust Fluid) is basically just synthetic cat piss diluted in water. |
Originally Posted by Savington
(Post 1269583)
How did Obama pass those emissions standards while he was a law professor?
Tier 2 Diesel emissions standards were passed into law in 1999 August 28, 2012 The Obama administration announced strict new vehicle fuel-efficiency standards Tuesday, requiring that the U.S. auto fleet average 54.5 miles per gallon by 2025, an uncontroversial move that, unlike other administration energy policies, was endorsed by industry and environmentalists alike. If they wanted to meet strict MPG numbers AND meet strict NOx numbers AND safety impact standards...you need Romneycare. and it's not like the didn't try: Background on the 2.0L diesel engines at the core of the Volkswagen emissions testing debacle As a result, real-world NOx emissions increased by a factor of 10 to 40 times above the EPA compliant levels, depending on the drive cycle. that shit is tough: The increasingly tough emissions standards have also claimed another vehicle. Chrysler has ceased production of the Liberty CRD, the first mid-size, diesel-powered SUV in the US. According to a Chrysler spokesperson: Engineering modifications to the [Liberty CRD] engine as well as other aspects of the vehicle were required for Liberty CRD to comply with the new standards. However, we could not make a credible business case for such an investment, especially for limited production vehicles. The Liberty CRD was a market test for Chrysler. The Liberty, which features a 2.8-liter engine, exceeded Chrysler’s sales expectations by more than 70%, racking up more than 11,000 units since its introduction. Volkswagen, the other provider of diesel light-duty vehicles in the US, has also indicated that it would drop its diesel passenger cars from the 2007 model-year line up as it reworks its vehicles to meet the new standards. VW expects to deliver a 50-state Jetta in 2008. (Earlier post.) That will leave the Mercedes E320 BLUETEC, due to arrive this fall, as the only new diesel passenger vehicle available in all 50 states. More than 60% of Chrysler Group vehicles sold in Western Europe are diesel-powered. Between 2003 and 2007, Chrysler Group will have tripled the number of diesel offerings outside North America. Of its estimated 20 vehicles available, 12 or more will have the option for a diesel powertrain (up from four in 2003). |
2 Attachment(s)
|
|
FWIW most of the "coal" from rolling coal is particulates that fall back to the earth. Its not nearly as bad as it is made out to be.
|
1 Attachment(s)
It is entirely pointless and fucking retarded though. Waste of energy, in more ways than one, that doesn't ever get turned back into anything of use.
And on top of it all, the guys I know who roll coal could get by just fine with a prius or cavalier but instead they drive 12mpg smokestacks. I don't get it. It screams insecurity to me, I just lol and enjoy the smell. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1443191139 |
I'm not arguing the point of it, or the retardedness.
Just arguing the belief that it is killing us all. Also most of those diesel trucks get ~20-25mpg. Or higher. |
Yes, some might occasionally get 20mpg, but I've never been in any of those. I learned to drive/took the test in a 05 dually duramax that would hardly do better than 18 on the highway. In the city, 12 was good.
My dad paid 65 grand for that bitch, new. I bet he could have rented trucks as often as he needed it. A old truck and a new car would have been cheaper and far more economical. And I know my dad ain't alone, big truck says workin' man, right? |
Originally Posted by aidandj
(Post 1269637)
FWIW most of the "coal" from rolling coal is particulates that fall back to the earth. Its not nearly as bad as it is made out to be.
It also stupidly squanders a finite resource. |
I agree with you on all points.
Just playing devils advocate. There are well tuned, powerful, efficient diesels out there. Along with the shitty brodozer coal rollers. Check out the motortrend diesel power challenge sometime. Those trucks all make upwards of 1000hp/2000ft/lbs. And average >25mpg on the fuel economy test. I'm currently shopping for a long bed single cab 90's powerstroke to daily drive this winter. I use my pickup bed all the time, and I just like diesels. I want the power/torque of them. Just like how I could have kept my miata N/A but then I wouldn't get to feel the boost. |
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 1269621)
you forgot how this joke worked.
I know it was a silly "haha OBUMMER" joke but I thought I would poke fun at it anyway, since you consistently blame him for things that prior administrations did :) also remember that 10-40% greater than the limit of .07, is .077-.098 g/mi; that's still half the NOx of a Bin 8 car. |
Originally Posted by Savington
(Post 1269648)
Is it 2025 already? The standards that VW cheated to meet were passed by Clinton, not Obama. Obama's standards (which everyone except you likes) won't come into effect for another decade.
I know it was a silly "haha OBUMMER" joke but I thought I would poke fun at it anyway, since you consistently blame him for things that prior administrations did :) 10-40x = 1000-4000%. If the limit is .07, and you emit 40x the limit, you emit 2.8g/mi. fail joke is fail :( |
Originally Posted by Joe Perez
(Post 1269646)
It also stupidly squanders a finite resource.
I can go on. That's a poor argument. Because stupid in your eyes isn't stupid in their eyes. I can agree with you on ruining the environment, and giving diesels a bad name, but I can't agree that doing something that gives them a happy feeling is stupidly squandering a resource. |
Originally Posted by aidandj
(Post 1269652)
And dirt biking.
|
Everyone else should conserve fuel so I can run rich in boost in defiance of the EPA.
|
Thought you might like that Sean.
My point is, something being stupid is your opinion. And means shit to everyone else. |
Tis the definition of bigotry
|
1 Attachment(s)
Bigotry is the intolerance of the person who has the differing opinion from you.
Not the intolerance of the actual opinion. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1443213087 |
same difference
and let me just be clear that im a "Rolling coal" bigot too. |
| All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:16 AM. |
© 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands