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Old 08-21-2011, 11:19 AM   #21
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If everyone is equal, then why does it seem that I am "less equal"?

And I am getting ******* sick of racist/sexist commercials that depict the white male as being the idiot. How do I sue over this?
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Old 08-21-2011, 01:16 PM   #22
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Because affirmative action, There was a time that some people needed an edge based on race/religion/ethnicity/whatever. That time is over. If people are going to get preferential treatment it should be for better reasoning.
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Old 08-21-2011, 01:57 PM   #23
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inb4Obama'sblackjobs
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Old 08-21-2011, 02:37 PM   #24
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If you want to stay in the law field as enlisted, all branches offer Legal as a MOS option. It really all depends on what you want, the job it self will be the same with every branch, however, it's pride, discipline, among other things that will vary branch to branch. Easiest way of living would be the Air Force...the most pride would be the Marines. I knew several Legal Assistance Marines and they seemed to love their jobs, they gained a lot of experience.
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Old 08-21-2011, 04:30 PM   #25
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FWIW, legal is one of the fields getting right sized for officers in the Air Force atm. It's one of those situations where you might be waiting a while for your slot.
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Old 08-21-2011, 04:34 PM   #26
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Buffon, I've read your first post several times and can't figure out if you're planning to join a service before or after getting a degree or if you're looking at engineering jobs in the military or legal jobs. Please clarify.

If you're already going to have a degree, then officer is the way to go, but most officer programs have a minimum commitment upon completion of training. For example, as a pilot, you would owe 8yrs upon getting your wings... and guys take anywhere from 1-2yrs to get wings depending on what you fly. So by the time you're eligible to actually get out, you're halfway to retirement.

I'm pretty sure that aviation has the longest commitment timelines in the US Navy, but I can't imagine the other services are any less. Surface Warfare Officers used to be 4yrs, but now I think they're 6.

I'm pretty sure Seabees and Nukes also have semi-long commitments... 6-8 yrs.

You mention that you're not interested in making the military a career, but the type of jobs you're looking at, and the training the miltary will give you, they're going to want some serious payback. I don't think I'm going to far out on a limb here by saying that you're looking at a 6-8yr time-in-service for any of the highly technical jobs we're talking about.

The enlisted counterparts to these rates aren't much less for commitment. Enlisted Nukes promote very fast and have large retention bonus's.

Honestly, the best thing I can think of for you right now is being a Test Pilot... but it's not the easiest road. You have to qualify for aviation physically, pass the aviation aptitude battery, make it through OCS, make it through flight school, complete your first fleet tour, apply to TPS, get accepted, MAKE IT THROUGH THE SCHOOL, then owe your payback tour as a tester... by the time that's all done, you've got 10yrs and are a Lieutenant Commander.

Also, retention right now is through the roof. Nobody is getting out. The Navy particularly is overmanned and is booting people left and right... good and qualified people... guys who are prior Sailor-of-the-Year for their commands are being let go because they're overmanned 110% in their rate and the Navy has no more room for them.

You need to look seriously at promotion and manning levels, and pick a job that it's going to be full a few years from now, so you can promote and be successful on timeline.

I'll reply with more if you'll clarify what exactly you're looking at.
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Old 08-21-2011, 10:50 PM   #27
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Pretty much what the other service members have already said - it's tough to get in right now and even the Army is overstrength, and so is trying to shed people. Even more so for the AF and Navy. But, I'm no recruiter and don't know if there's any particular demand for any particular skill (other than the usual linguist and EOD shortages).

Disregarding the potential lack of seats, there are other aspects to look at beyond quality of life. The AF is posh, but they promote like molasses. The USMC is at the other end of the spectrum of course.

Gearhead - Me not so smrt.

FRT - Not doing my job at all at the moment, I'm on leave! 8)

Fooger - Do you get to use your engineering experience on the job? Do you know who (in the Army or other services) does?

OP - If you join the Army as enlisted, I can virtually guarantee you'll deploy and I don't have much confidence you'll actually gain engineering experience. You would gain resume clout though. Have you considered the Coast Guard?
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Old 08-21-2011, 10:55 PM   #28
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If your joining any branch you'll probably end up waiting a while. I don't know if this has been mentioned before but at my recruiting station, new poolee's are having to wait 1 year before going to boot camp, maybe more now. That's something I'd ask a recruiter about.
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Old 08-22-2011, 06:48 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kotomile View Post
Fooger - Do you get to use your engineering experience on the job? Do you know who (in the Army or other services) does?
I get to use a tiny bit of actual *engineering*, which usually consists of little more than anyalyzing soils in order to place roads. In layman's terms, I'm a "dirt designer".

Actual engineering tasks are usually done by degree qualified engineers and EITs - they do things such as conducting the actual designing of bridges and buildings. To do actual engineer work which transfers to civilian world, you will need to be in either an Engineer brigade headquarters (or above) design section, or on a theater construction management (TCM) team. A TCM team is generally responsible for doing the complete design of operating bases, from designing full utilities and distribution systems to designing and overseeing the construction of a helipad. The TCM doesn't have a typical troop structure, either. I'm active duty in the Ohio National Guard. We have a TCM team which consists of something like 11 personnel. The team is extremely officer heavy; it's either a Colonel or Lieutenant Colonel that is in charge, all the way down to a couple of slots designed for anyone O1 to O3, then there are 4 or 5 NCO slots, and maybe one E4 slot.

Those guys (as well as the guys in the brigade and above design sections) are the real engineers. I've been trained to do a lot of engineering tasks; I can design water distribution and sewage systems, I can design a temporary electrical distribution system, I can plan and draw a complex wood-frame structure, etc., but a lot of these would take me some time to accomplish - I just don't practice them enough to be able to breeze through it. I'm not the Army version of a civilian engineer, I am the engineer version of an Army officer.

I suspect the air force has their own design teams as well, responsible for design and certification of air-traffic utilities (runways, helipads, etc.). They are probably linked to either the Red Horse or the Prime Beef, however I know not in which capacity.
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Old 08-22-2011, 08:38 PM   #30
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my opinion: USAF for the win!
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Old 08-22-2011, 08:58 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pen2_the_penguin View Post
my opinion: USAF for the win!
So helpful.
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Old 08-22-2011, 09:04 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kotomile View Post
Have you considered the Coast Guard?
From what a recruiter told me last week, they have a very long line.
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Old 08-22-2011, 09:08 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by FRT_Fun View Post
So helpful.
lol from my experience, its been very helpful toward my schooling, since they have such a huge variety of technological support and the want for more college educated personnel in both enlisted and officer. In fact, they have a free community college, along with their own associates degree program called the AF degree (clever). I know from OUR local Air National Guard, not only does the AF support students in such a high manner, my local ANG offers the AF degree program, CCAF (community collage of the Air Force), the GI Bill, but our ANG gives a full ride to any of the local colleges including the university that doesnt touch the GI bill benefit.
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Old 08-22-2011, 10:07 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pen2_the_penguin View Post
lol from my experience, its been very helpful toward my schooling, since they have such a huge variety of technological support and the want for more college educated personnel in both enlisted and officer. In fact, they have a free community college, along with their own associates degree program called the AF degree (clever). I know from OUR local Air National Guard, not only does the AF support students in such a high manner, my local ANG offers the AF degree program, CCAF (community collage of the Air Force), the GI Bill, but our ANG gives a full ride to any of the local colleges including the university that doesnt touch the GI bill benefit.
The Navy offers almost identical benefits to what you're describing above... the problem is that you're never home. Longer deployments and increased workload on shore-duty due to reduced manning. 8 month cruises are the norm now in the Navy, with a backside surge cruise of 3-4 months, plus excersizes, certifications, airshows, conferences... blah blah blah. Your average sea-duty orders will have you GONE for about 75% of your tour.

Manning challenges and force shaping tools are going to go through some tough stages in the next few years. Physical readiness standards are being sharpened, bonus's are going WAY DOWN or completely away, etc...

If you're going to sign up, you'd better be damned sure you're on a mission for success.
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Old 08-22-2011, 10:25 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pen2_the_penguin View Post
lol from my experience, its been very helpful toward my schooling, since they have such a huge variety of technological support and the want for more college educated personnel in both enlisted and officer. In fact, they have a free community college, along with their own associates degree program called the AF degree (clever). I know from OUR local Air National Guard, not only does the AF support students in such a high manner, my local ANG offers the AF degree program, CCAF (community collage of the Air Force), the GI Bill, but our ANG gives a full ride to any of the local colleges including the university that doesnt touch the GI bill benefit.
Yeah, I am active and can pretty much vouch for this, My GI bill has not been touched, and I am scooting along in school. It is pretty family oriented if you are worried about that. I also got a degree in Dietetics and Nutrition that I didn't even really want. I have my A.S. in that and Engineering. Plus I work 0700-1600 monday through friday (this varies per job, I work in a clinic). Plus My wife has decent enough benefits, and the pay isnt terrible.

Quote:
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The Navy offers almost identical benefits to what you're describing above... the problem is that you're never home. Longer deployments and increased workload on shore-duty due to reduced manning. 8 month cruises are the norm now in the Navy, with a backside surge cruise of 3-4 months, plus excersizes, certifications, airshows, conferences... blah blah blah. Your average sea-duty orders will have you GONE for about 75% of your tour.

Manning challenges and force shaping tools are going to go through some tough stages in the next few years. Physical readiness standards are being sharpened, bonus's are going WAY DOWN or completely away, etc...

If you're going to sign up, you'd better be damned sure you're on a mission for success.
This, it is getting competitive to stay in, and I have seen 4 people leave my Squadron in the past 2 months, and since we are drawing down in Iraq, well we just have deployment slots for afghanistan. If you can't pass your PT test, I think you get 2 retries, if not you hit the road. We are closing down and re-aligning bases and missions to take advantage of manning and cut money spent. It is basically like Sam said, go big or go home.
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Old 08-22-2011, 10:54 PM   #36
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If you can't pass your PT test, I think you get 2 retries, if not you hit the road. We are closing down and re-aligning bases and missions to take advantage of manning and cut money spent. It is basically like Sam said, go big or go home.
Whats your PT test like? Your in the Navy right?
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Old 08-23-2011, 02:13 AM   #37
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^Chicks is in the AF, notice his location.

Navy PT test is currently pushups/situps/1.5mile run.

To pass within standards as a 35yr old male, I need to do
Pushups: 30
Situps: 44
1.5mile run: 14:45

You get 2 minutes each to do the situps and pushups. I've never had a problem passing... but at 6'4" and 250lbs, I've been damned close to the fat standards the past few years. I usually cut the week before down to about 240lbs and pass fine. If I actually got my big butt back in the gym more often and shed the extra 30lbs I've been sloggin around, maybe I'd get laid more.

Instead of the run, you can also use an eliptical machine like a bitch, or swim it. I'd cut my own dick off before I'd do the PRT on an eliptical machine though.

It's a tough edge to walk though... you increase workload and optempo, have long deployments, tell guys they have to get a degree even as an enlisted man if they want to promote... and then wonder why people don't have time to work-out... then you tighten the physical standards to boot out the guys who've been doing everything you asked them to do for their careers.
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Old 08-23-2011, 02:20 AM   #38
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Just as a point of reference for OP, my IST for the MC is:
Pull ups- Must be able to do 4(?) Max is 20, I did 14.
Crunches in 2 min- (not sit-ups) Must do 45, max is 100 I did 67 (I should be able to do much more, my little bro did 131 last week)
1.5 mile run- Must do in less then 13:30, I did 12:46 last week, shaved 30 second off the previous month.
Once your in it gets a bit harder (3 mile run in >31 minutes I think)
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Old 08-23-2011, 09:47 AM   #39
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The Penguin made a good point in that many times the National Guard has better deals than active duty as far as payment for school goes. In my opinion tuition assistance is a joke but the ANG was going to pay for all of my little brother's state school tuition and provide a generous stipend, around $1200/month, to join. I did ROTC and they only got a few hundred/month stipend although they did fork out a lot more than state school tuition for me.
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Old 08-24-2011, 11:10 AM   #40
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Fooger put it well when he said that he's the Engineer version of an officer rather than the officer version of an engineer. That's what I'm afraid of for you if you choose the military to further a civilian engineering career. The Army, at least, has a terrible track record (in my experience) putting people where they can use their skills. Further, you're absolutely at the mercy of the Army (AF/Navy/MC/CG) when it comes to assignments. You might find yourself as a personnel clerk for your entire enlistment.

But, if you think it might help just to have military service to list on your resume (regardless of what you actually did while in), then there's that.
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