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Old 05-06-2010, 01:29 PM   #21
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Go to Pawn stars lol
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Old 05-06-2010, 02:01 PM   #22
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Old 05-06-2010, 02:14 PM   #23
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Those laws will relate to anything that can/could if assembled/functioning fire a bullet. This includes a stripped lower receiver for an AR for example. So yes, they do apply. However if they are under the list for Curio & Relics (C&R) and the buyer has their C&R License, it makes the transfer much easier as you would just have to have an FFL transfer the firearm directly to his door if it were an out-of-state sale.
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Old 05-06-2010, 02:41 PM   #24
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Here's the info I have on the guns, as well as some pictures.

The first gun pictured (4 pics) has "Connecticut Valley Arms Inc." on it. Seems to be called a Frontier. .50 caliber

He said he bought it years ago from a place called Service Merchandise as a kit gun. He said when they would shoot it they would laugh about how much of a black cloud this thing would make. I have no idea if the gun is still functional or not, but it seems to be in pretty good condition.

It weighs in at 6lbs and has a total length of 40" (24" barrel)

The second gun (5 pics) looks old as **** and probably need some extensive work. It has something cast into it, but its hard to make out. Looks like it reads " J RIDCET & CO."

He said this gun was given to him from his aunt (he's in his 80's) and she said it was a Ethan Allen rifle. Then he said a guy later down the road told him it was not an Ethan Allen, that this gun was after his time. He also said he thinks its a .49 caliber. I have no idea what any of that means without some research first, but that's the info he gave me.

It weighs in at 6.2lbs and has a total length of 60" (44" barrel)

I also attached a picture of the bayonet.

Thanks again guys. I'm going to do a bit of research on these things without losing too much time on them. If I cant sell them without it being a hassle, I might not want to get involved.
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Old 05-06-2010, 03:27 PM   #25
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Interesting guns, the bayonet would be very useful in case you needed to wage war against the north to promote slavery.

Last edited by Newbsauce; 05-06-2010 at 03:38 PM.
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Old 05-06-2010, 03:53 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newbsauce View Post
Interesting guns, would be very useful in case you needed to wage war against the north to promote slavery.

Confederate forces attack Fort Sumter - April 1861
Emancipation Proclamation (frees only Confederate slaves) - September 1862
Thirteenth Amendment enacted (frees all slaves) - December 1865
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Old 05-06-2010, 04:12 PM   #27
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I'm not a muzzleloader expert but I wouldn't get my hopes up on either of those.

Service Merchandise was a catalog and retail general merchandise chain not too long ago, and they have recently been resurrected on the internet. I remember that on older Wheel of Fortune episodes, after you won the round you got to spend your cash. The camera would pan through several items and the winners picked out what they wanted to buy, and they could get the remainder in the form of a Service Merchandise gift certificate. They were kind of like a Sears or maybe a Woolworth's. Sears used to sell guns too BTW, but most of us aren't that old.

Connecticut Valley Arms still makes muzzleloaders, though I don't know much about them. It looks like it's probably shootable and I'd guess it might be worth a few hundred based on current prices and where it was purchased. Of course you should ask around some web forums and get some muzzleloader aficionados to confirm, but I highly doubt it's a valuable antique.

I don't recognize the name on the second one, but the stock is cracked and beat up and the metal has lots of pitting and some surface rust. I wouldn't fire that one. Not because it'll blow up in your hands (it won't) but because the recoil will probably cause more wood to fall off. Collectors don't usually pay much for guns in that condition, but again, ask around the forums.
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Old 05-06-2010, 04:15 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newbsauce View Post
Interesting guns, the bayonet would be very useful in case you needed to wage war against the north to promote slavery.
I was actually thinking about trying it out on someone. I want to make sure it works before I list it. lol

The older gun is borderline falling apart. I'm not familiar with these older guns so I know nothing about them. I hope to make some spare time this weekend to do a little more research on them to find out exactly what they are.

It's funny, I started selling off this guys stock of parts at the dealership and now he's coming at me with a whole boat load of **** he wants to sell. Some stuff isn't even worth taking a picture of, but other stuff has me wondering what its worth, like these guns for example.
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Old 05-06-2010, 04:17 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vashthestampede View Post
Here's the info I have on the guns, as well as some pictures.

The first gun pictured (4 pics) has "Connecticut Valley Arms Inc." on it. Seems to be called a Frontier. .50 caliber

He said he bought it years ago from a place called Service Merchandise as a kit gun. He said when they would shoot it they would laugh about how much of a black cloud this thing would make. I have no idea if the gun is still functional or not, but it seems to be in pretty good condition.

It weighs in at 6lbs and has a total length of 40" (24" barrel)

The second gun (5 pics) looks old as **** and probably need some extensive work. It has something cast into it, but its hard to make out. Looks like it reads " J RIDCET & CO."

He said this gun was given to him from his aunt (he's in his 80's) and she said it was a Ethan Allen rifle. Then he said a guy later down the road told him it was not an Ethan Allen, that this gun was after his time. He also said he thinks its a .49 caliber. I have no idea what any of that means without some research first, but that's the info he gave me.

It weighs in at 6.2lbs and has a total length of 60" (44" barrel)

I also attached a picture of the bayonet.

Thanks again guys. I'm going to do a bit of research on these things without losing too much time on them. If I cant sell them without it being a hassle, I might not want to get involved.
I am old. I remember Service Merchandise, and Monkey Wards.

Anyway.

The second gun certanly has the features that I associate with a 1700s North American Fronteir weapon. (Think 'Last of the Mohicans') It looks like it uses a percussion cap, not sure when those first became common. the 44" barrel is maybe just a tad shorter than what I have heard about fronteir rifles, but then too that might be hollywood talking. Just under 4 ft is a pretty long damned barrel which is consistent with that time more or less. Does it have groves (rifling) inside the barrel? You should be able to look down the bore and see then if they are there.

Ethan Allen was a historical figure, from the Revolution. Basically a badass. If you had a rifle actualy owned/fired/used by him or his men it would be worth a good deal. Weapons back then doubled as food providers though and so much like ancient axes they dont tend to survive long due to heavy use.
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Old 05-06-2010, 04:19 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottFW View Post
I'm not a muzzleloader expert but I wouldn't get my hopes up on either of those.

Service Merchandise was a catalog and retail general merchandise chain not too long ago, and they have recently been resurrected on the internet. I remember that on older Wheel of Fortune episodes, after you won the round you got to spend your cash. The camera would pan through several items and the winners picked out what they wanted to buy, and they could get the remainder in the form of a Service Merchandise gift certificate. They were kind of like a Sears or maybe a Woolworth's. Sears used to sell guns too BTW, but most of us aren't that old.

Connecticut Valley Arms still makes muzzleloaders, though I don't know much about them. It looks like it's probably shootable and I'd guess it might be worth a few hundred based on current prices and where it was purchased. Of course you should ask around some web forums and get some muzzleloader aficionados to confirm, but I highly doubt it's a valuable antique.

I don't recognize the name on the second one, but the stock is cracked and beat up and the metal has lots of pitting and some surface rust. I wouldn't fire that one. Not because it'll blow up in your hands (it won't) but because the recoil will probably cause more wood to fall off. Collectors don't usually pay much for guns in that condition, but again, ask around the forums.
Awesome info man! Do you know of any specific forum I should join? I could google, but if you have any in-particular you think I should use let me know.

As far as the prices go on these guns, he had the first one with a $100 tag on it and the second one with a $200 tag on it. The bayonet had a tag for $200 on it as well.
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Old 05-06-2010, 04:22 PM   #31
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So I just did some checking on wiki. Percusion caps were introduced in 1830, meaning that neither gun is revolutionary. Civil war maybe, but no way from the revolution or war of 1812.

Edit "Early flintlocks were often converted to percussion ignition."

So hell, I dont know.
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Old 05-06-2010, 04:28 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparetire View Post
I am old. I remember Service Merchandise, and Monkey Wards.

Anyway.

The second gun certanly has the features that I associate with a 1700s North American Fronteir weapon. (Think 'Last of the Mohicans') It looks like it uses a percussion cap, not sure when those first became common. the 44" barrel is maybe just a tad shorter than what I have heard about fronteir rifles, but then too that might be hollywood talking. Just under 4 ft is a pretty long damned barrel which is consistent with that time more or less. Does it have groves (rifling) inside the barrel? You should be able to look down the bore and see then if they are there.

Ethan Allen was a historical figure, from the Revolution. Basically a badass. If you had a rifle actualy owned/fired/used by him or his men it would be worth a good deal. Weapons back then doubled as food providers though and so much like ancient axes they dont tend to survive long due to heavy use.
Jesus you guys know your ****. lol

I knew I could turn to this forum for help on just about any subject.

He said when his aunt gave it to him years ago that she told him it was a Ethan Allen rifle. I didnt really know what that meant, I just made a note of it. But he did say a guy later on told him it was not in fact an Ethan Allen, due to the fact it was not as old as it should be.

I know that sometimes over the years info can get jarbled up through the grapevine and whatnot, but there's also a lot of people out there that give misinformation on a daily basis. So just because some guy told him its not, I wouldn't just settle with that.

I'll see what info I can find on the cast marks on it. Its a shame cause the casting is so beat up right in the middle of it that I can barely make it out.
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Old 05-06-2010, 06:00 PM   #33
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I don't know of any muzzleloader forums off the top of my head, but there probably is one out there somewhere. General forums that I think would have a crowd with more advanced age would be thehighroad, gunboards (mostly milsurp discussion, but plenty of old-timers), maybe the CMP forum (Garands and such, mostly an older crowd).

The good news is that selling them shouldn't be a giant hassle because muzzleloaders are generally considered antiques (regardless of date of manufacture) by virtue of the fact that they don't fire fixed ammunition. There are a couple exceptions to that, like certain guns that use a black powder cartridge, or ones with interchangeable barrels that can also use modern ammo, but yours look like they're good to go. The interstate sales and shipping of antique firearms are not regulated by any federal laws and that includes the post office. Practically, they aren't viewed as "real guns" for the most part because the rate of fire is so low that nobody worries about them being used in a crime spree. To most states, an individual can ship a muzzleloader right to the doorstep of the buyer just like shipping a baseball bat. Again, state & local laws vary and there are a few states where there are either state or local (think Chicago, NYC, etc) regulations on them, depending on where the buyer is located. I forget exactly which states off hand but VA is not one of them. If I wanted them (I don't) I could paypal you and you could ship them to my house with no paperwork involved.
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Old 05-06-2010, 06:15 PM   #34
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I got dibs on the bayonet. It would probably look badass on the end of my AR-15.


JK on actually buying it, but it would still look badass.
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