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Old 03-27-2010, 08:26 PM   #1
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Default Whining about H&R Springs customer service...

Just a cautionary tale about trying to get a straight answer out of H&R Springs customer service.

I unpacked my set of H&R coilovers yesterday. I noticed that the 2 spanner wrenches included with the set were different sizes:

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This difference seemed odd, as the spring perches and locknuts are almost the same diameter. Sure enough, I tested the wrenches out and discovered only one of them actually fit.

The larger wrench:

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The smaller wrench:

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I decided to call H&R Springs customer service out of curiosity. My intent was simply to find out of the smaller wrench was mistakenly included, or if there was some proper use for it that was unknown to me. My desired outcome was simply that, if it was a mistake, they could be alerted so an appropriate change could be made to future kits. I figured if they went the extra mile, I might get a free larger spanner wrench out of it, but it didn't really matter to me.

I reached a CS rep named "John F". When I described the situation, I heard his tone change and immediately felt like I was being treated like a "problem customer". At various points, he told me:

(1) You only need 1 wrench to adjust the coilovers (then why include 2?)
(2) Spanner wrenches don't have to fit perfectly to work, the tooth does the work
(3) The locknut itself doesn't need to be turned under a load like the spring perch, so you can just turn it by hand
(4) 2 different size wrenches were included since the spring perch and locknut are different sizes (ignoring my repeated statements that the difference in the size of the wrenches was much, much greater than the difference between the perch and the locknut)

And frequently, after making one of these explanations/excuses, he'd say, "I just don't see the problem here."

Finally, when I was just giving up so I could get off the phone, he suggested I take some photos and email him so he could see what I'm talking about (which I just did about 30 minutes ago).

What I found astounding was that I, as a customer, took the time to alert them to a possible problem with their product, and the CS rep couldn't figure out how to handle the conversation without resorting to basically telling me to just deal with it. I work in a small retail business, and while I am completely on board with the idea that occasionally you have to "fire your customer" when they make unreasonable demands, I hardly think calling with a question about a poorly-sized wrench supplied in a kit is an unreasonable demand.

We'll see if and how John F responds to my email with the attached pics.
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Old 03-27-2010, 08:31 PM   #2
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talk to his boss/supervisor/manager/etc
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Old 03-27-2010, 08:35 PM   #3
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thats retarded, that wrench is definitely not acceptable.
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Old 03-30-2010, 04:49 PM   #4
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I'm willing to assume he was not working on Sunday, but it's now Tuesday afternoon and still no reply from my friend John F at H&R Springs.

Escalate my complaint, give him another day or two, or just forget about it?
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Old 03-30-2010, 04:52 PM   #5
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Call that mo-fugger...
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Old 04-02-2010, 11:14 AM   #6
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So, I sent "John F" an email with basically the same info posted above the same day I started this thread. This is what followed:

Quote:
From: Mark Geoffriau [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 6:00 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Spanner wrench pics

John,

I sent pics of the spanner wrenches several days ago. Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Mark
He replied:

Quote:
On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 11:53 AM, John Filipiak <[email protected]com> wrote:



Other than color there are no differences between your adjusters and these.
Our wrenches fit both lock nut and adjuster nut.

Not sure how yours would be different

Thanks,

John Filipiak
My response:

Quote:
From: Mark Geoffriau [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 11:55 AM
To: John Filipiak
Subject: Re: Spanner wrench pics

H&R has never, ever used a different size spring perch or lock nut? I think my photo shows pretty clearly that the smaller wrench doesn't fit on the spring perch or the lock nut, and that the difference in size between my spring perches and locknuts is not nearly as significant as the difference in size between the spring perch and locknut in your photo.
He changes the subject:

Quote:
On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 1:10 PM, John Filipiak <[email protected]> wrote:

Who did you buy this kit from?

Is this a brand new kit?

Thanks,

John Filipiak
I answer:

Quote:
From: Mark Geoffriau [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 1:14 PM
To: John Filipiak
Subject: Re: Spanner wrench pics

From a guy named Tim ****** in California...he had it listed on a Miata forum classifieds.

They arrived in the original H&R box, with papers, the spanner wrenches in plastic bags, etc.
He then kind of admits the locknut is a different size, but still insists the spanner wrench works fine:

Quote:
On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 5:01 PM, John Filipiak <[email protected]> wrote:

The Miata coilovers have a lock nut that is a bit bigger than most. The wrench still works for loosening the lock nut.

Thanks,

John Filipiak
I try to move towards a solution:

Quote:
From: Mark Geoffriau [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 5:03 PM
To: John Filipiak
Subject: Re: Spanner wrench pics

What would it cost to have another larger wrench mailed to me? As it is, having 2 large wrenches would be much more useful to me. As you can see in the pics, the large wrench fits the locknut better than the small wrench. I can make do with 1 wrench, but it's convenient to have 2 wrenches that fit to break the perch and locknut free from each other.
He replies with:

Quote:
From: John Filipiak <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 5:13 PM
Subject: RE: Spanner wrench pics
To: Mark Geoffriau <[email protected]>

You would need to contact a distributor and purchase one of these items.

H&R Special Springs, LP

Click on distributors and find one near you.

Thanks,

John Filipiak
So it took John the better part of a week to halfway admit that the wrench was the wrong size and the best solution he can offer me is to "contact a distributor".

Customer service fail.
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Old 04-02-2010, 11:20 AM   #7
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So wait. You bought this used from someone? And you're basically complaining about their support of a product you did not buy from them or one of their distributors in regard to a issue that is not really an issue?

Just trying to understand here. Is Tim a distributor or is he some guy on the classifieds who sold you some "NIB" parts?

Is it possible that Tim accidentally put the wrong wrench in there?
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Old 04-02-2010, 11:24 AM   #8
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In a sealed bag in a sealed box? Sure, I guess Tim might be running a big scam to steal the properly sized wrenches out of H&R coilover kits and replacing them with smaller wrenches, but it seems unlikely.

Keep in mind I opened the conversation with H&R customer service not asking for anything other than an explanation for why a wrench was supplied that doesn't fit.
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Old 04-02-2010, 11:28 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgeoffriau View Post
In a sealed bag in a sealed box? Sure, I guess Tim might be running a big scam to steal the properly sized wrenches out of H&R coilover kits and replacing them with smaller wrenches, but it seems unlikely.

Keep in mind I opened the conversation with H&R customer service not asking for anything other than an explanation for why a wrench was supplied that doesn't fit.
OK, cool. I was misunderstanding then. If its sealed in the bag then theres about a 99% chance of SNAFU (however minor) on their end.
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Old 04-02-2010, 11:34 AM   #10
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Honestly, my issue isn't even with the answer as the way it was delivered. If I'd called, described the problem, and he'd said, "I'm really sorry, certain kits have a different sized locknut. I don't have individual wrenches, but I can direct you to a distributor if you want to purchase one", I'd be completely happy. Same answer, but delivered in a way that acknowledges my problem, and doesn't waste my time.

But after a week of arguing with the dude just trying to get him to acknowledge that I wasn't just making the problem up, taking photos to prove it to him, waiting days on a reply, then having him do nothing other than send me a link back to their website...well, he's working in the wrong department.
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Old 04-02-2010, 12:55 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgeoffriau View Post
Honestly, my issue isn't even with the answer as the way it was delivered.
What are you, a woman? Obviously their CS leaves a bit to be desired, but you're also worrying about it more than you need to IMO. In the time you've wasted trying to deal with them, you could have gotten the parts installed on your car and found out for certain whether you really need to bother with a second wrench or not.

Factors that may ease your mind:

1. The lock nut does not need to be snugged to the perch with ape-like torque. In fact, one of my Koni perches was missing its set screw (they use set screws instead of lock nuts) and despite the perch not being secured by anything other than spring tension, it has not moved one iota in almost a year of driving, as evidenced by the small alignment marks I put on it with a paint pen when I discovered the missing set screw during the initial install. Koni did send me a replacement set screw free of charge (great service ) but I have yet to install it.

2. Depending on the spring length & rate and how high you have things adjusted, the perch will have tension on it from the spring. If not with the whole coilover assembly out of the car, then with it installed and the weight of the car on it. One wrench "should" be sufficient to tighten or loosen the lock nut without spinning the perch along with it, assuming you didn't install the lock nut with ape-like torque.

3. You are not going to be adjusting your coilovers frequently. Once when you install them, maybe a few days later if things have settled a bit, and then a final time if you get concerned enough about handling that you want the car corner balanced.

4. A 99¢ rubber strap wrench from HF will work just fine if you need to hold the perch in place while you use the spanner wrench on the lock nut, and it will probably be cheaper and easier to acquire than a second spanner wrench. Granted, it doesn't say much for H&R service when going to HF is preferable to dealing with them. But at this point you're probably better off just solving the problem and moving on.
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Old 04-02-2010, 12:59 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgeoffriau View Post
Not to be a jackass, and I dont currently or ever have I had aftermarket suspension pieces. But it looks like the nut thingy closer to us in the picture is smaller and smaller wrench looks like it would fit that?
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Old 04-02-2010, 01:19 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottFW View Post
What are you, a woman? Obviously their CS leaves a bit to be desired, but you're also worrying about it more than you need to IMO. [...] But at this point you're probably better off just solving the problem and moving on.
No, you're right...and that was kind of my point. I called their CS because the number was printed on the info sheet and I was curious. What could have been a 2 minute conversation turned into 20 minutes on the phone and a week of emails, because I let "John F" **** me off with his attitude. And I tried to indicate with my thread title that this was a bitchfest about relatively minor issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by icantthink4155 View Post
Not to be a jackass, and I dont currently or ever have I had aftermarket suspension pieces. But it looks like the nut thingy closer to us in the picture is smaller and smaller wrench looks like it would fit that?
Actually, I took a pic of that as well and emailed it to H&R, just didn't include it here.

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Old 04-02-2010, 02:05 PM   #14
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I helped adjust a Bilstein kit on RotorNut's car and all the collars were the same diameter (large spanner fit them "properly")and all we had were my Ohlins spanners which are 1 large and 1 small. I was still able to use the small one to get a grip on the collars to loosen them and snug them back together. Stop whining.
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