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Old 11-12-2008, 05:22 AM   #41
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I'm planning on picking up a nice Ak-47 sometime this month.
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Old 11-12-2008, 07:28 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by trito View Post
According to Wiki it's has a cartridge. If you have a gun just to protect your house, a revolver is sufficient. Semi-automatic weapons are easier to reload and can hold more rounds.

Semi-automatic pistol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Revolver - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
INCORRECT! ALL MODERN DAY FIREARMS USE CARTRIDGES!

Heres a fine example!






What do the Three firearms pictures have in common???



One is a Semi-Automatic Pistol, One is a double action revolver, and the final is a semi-automatic or FULLY AUTOMATIC MACHINE GUN... They ALL fire the *EXACT SAME ROUND* .45ACP.



Heres a neat little trick; If someones shoots up someones house with the Glock or Tommy gun, They leave behind the empty 'cartridges' for forensics bullshit. Sure, you can pick them up, but have you ever searched through grass in the middle of the day for small shell casings? Guess what they don't leave behind with the Revolver? DING DING DING DING! No shell casings!

Btw, they make revolvers with 8 round capacity, just like the .45 semi-auto pistols.

Think a Semi-automatic magazine fed pistol is 'easier to reload' then a revolver? Tell that to this guy:




Quote:
A semi-automatic, or self-loading firearm is a gun that requires only a trigger pull for each round that is fired, unlike a single-action revolver, a pump-action firearm, a bolt-action firearm, or a lever-action firearm, which require the shooter to chamber each successive round manually. For example, to fire ten rounds in a semi-automatic firearm, the trigger would need to be pulled ten times (once for each round fired), in contrast to a fully automatic firearm, which can continue to fire as long as the trigger is held or until it runs out of ammunition.
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An automatic firearm is a firearm that automatically extracts and ejects the fired cartridge case, and loads a new case, usually through the energy of the fired round. The term can be used to refer to semi-automatic firearms, which fire one shot per pull of the trigger, or fully automatic firearms, which will continue to load and fire ammunition until the trigger (or other activating device) is released or until the ammunition is exhausted. An "automatic pistol" or an "automatic shotgun" generally refers to a semi-automatic design, while "automatic rifle" more often means a fully automatic or selective fire design.
Quote:
A single-action trigger, sometimes single-action only, performs the single action of releasing the hammer or striker, which discharges the firearm.[1] Almost all rifles and shotguns use this type of trigger.[1] Single-action semi-automatic pistols require that the hammer be cocked before the first round is fired.[2] Once the first round is fired the automatic movement of the slide ***** the hammer for each subsequent shot. The pistol, once cocked, can be fired by pulling the trigger once for each shot until the magazine is empty. The M1911 is a single-action pistol that functions in this manner.
Quote:
Invented by Robert Adams, a double-action trigger performs the two functions of cocking and then releasing the hammer or striker.[1] When this term is applied to revolvers, the trigger also rotates the cylinder. Though this is technically a third action, it is correct to refer to the mechanism as double-action. More confusingly, revolvers with a double-action trigger mechanism almost always retain the single action functionality: the hammer may be cocked and the trigger pulled.[1] A typical DA revolver is the Smith and Wesson model 19 revolver.
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A cartridge, also called a round, packages the bullet, gunpowder and primer into a single metallic case precisely made to fit the firing chamber of a firearm. The primer is a small charge of impact-sensitive chemical that may be located at the center of the case head (centerfire ammunition) or at its rim (rimfire ammunition). Electrically-fired cartridges have also been made. A cartridge without a bullet is called a blank; one that is completely inert is called a dummy.
Quote:
A musket is a muzzle-loaded, smoothbore long gun, which is intended to be fired from the shoulder.

I really hope that clears up some misconceptions about firearms. Nothing pains me more than to see people pissed off and against something they're not fully educated on.
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Old 11-12-2008, 08:59 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by elesjuan View Post
The other thing about home / self defense. I wouldn't even bother pulling an assault rifle for any sort of self defense, I'd hate to end up shooting my neighbor through the perp laying dead in my front yard. A .357 magnum or buckshot in a shotgun is plenty effective in my opinion.
Actually a .223/5.56mm has less a chance of over penetration than a standard pistol round.

Sources - Pistol versus Rifle Caliber Ammunition
Olympic Arms, Inc. - Real World .223 Testing


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Originally Posted by trito View Post
I'm not against banning all guns, and I'm sure Obama isn't aiming for that too. What I'm for is banning assault rifles and semi automatic weapons.
Actually Obama has, more than once, mentioned a push for a complete ban on concealed carry. While not an outright ban on all guns, it sure diminishes their usefulness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trito View Post
If a criminal breaks into your house, you're not going to exchange 200 rounds of amo on eachother. Most likely there will be in a couple of fire shot and either one of you two are dead or he ran away.
I don't know about you, but if I am in the situation where I need a firearm to defend myself, I want the quickest shooting weapon with the highest capacity magazine I can have. Shoot the threat down.
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Old 11-12-2008, 10:11 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trito View Post
According to Wiki it's has a cartridge. If you have a gun just to protect your house, a revolver is sufficient. Semi-automatic weapons are easier to reload and can hold more rounds.
This has already been covered to a degree, but the depth of your ignorance in this matter is so staggering that I want to make sure that we have been absolutely 100% clear, with no room for ambiguity or misinterpretation.

A "cartridge" is what most people would commonly refer to as a "round" or (incorrectly) a "bullet". It is an assembly which consists of the brass casing, the primer, the gunpowder charge, and the bullet. The bullet is the (usually lead) projectile that comes out of the front of the gun, the casing is the part that remains behind in the cylinder (in a revolver) or is ejected out the top or side of the slide (in an automatic.)

Here is a diagram of a complete cartridge:

1= Bullet (the projectile)
2= Casing
3= Gunpowder
4= Primer

Cartridges are used in pretty much all modern firearms, be they revolvers, semi-automatic (one shot per trigger pull), fully automatic, even bolt-action, lever-action, and pump-action target rifles. Even the shotgun shell is technically a cartridge. The alternative to cartridges in hand-held firearms is generally muzzle-loading. This is basically what you see in revolutionary war paintings, where to fire the weapon you first pour a little gunpowder down the muzzle, then pack it down with a rod, then some cotton wadding, then a bullet and more cotton (pack with rod again) then you insert a cap onto the firing arm, and *then* you can fire the gun.

Once.


So, what exactly were you trying to convey by "According to Wiki it's has a cartridge"?



Quote:
Originally Posted by BradC View Post
Actually a .223/5.56mm has less a chance of over penetration than a standard pistol round.
Yup. Penetration is about many things, but generally, the type of gun that fired the round isn't one of them. Case size, powder load, bullet mass, all these things affect penetration, and vary primarily with caliber (the general type of round being fired.) What elesjuan touched on, but I think a lot of people miss, is that for most modern cartridges, you can find all manner of firearm to chamber them.

Here's a quick example:

This is a Glock 17. It (or some variant of it) is the standard-issue sidearm of about half the police departments in the US, and very popular among civilian target shooters and as a home-defense pistol:


This is an Uzi submachine gun. It fires 600 rounds per minute and is the sort of thing one might select to look cool while shooting up a school auditorium:


What do they have in common? This round:



I'm surprised nobody has mentioned frangible ammo. While still slightly controversial within the shooting community (owing to concerns about stopping effectiveness and such) the basic idea is that the bullet itself is made from a compressed powdered material, rather than solid lead. Thus, when it strikes a solid object (such as a wall) it will disintegrate rather than ricochet or penetrate. Pretty much the ultimate concept in a home-defense round.




Quote:
Originally Posted by trito View Post
for is banning assault rifles and semi automatic weapons.
Semi-automatic weapons? Like this one?

That's what a semi-automatic pistol looks like.


Quote:
Originally Posted by trito
If a criminal breaks into your house, you're not going to exchange 200 rounds of amo on eachother. Most likely there will be in a couple of fire shot and either one of you two are dead or he ran away. I don't see any good justification for owning these types of weapons other than purely entertainment value.
Could be. Depends upon the criminal I expect. If it's your average professional burglar, then I have to assume he's not breaking into my house in the first place, owing to the fact that someone is clearly home, as evidenced by the cars in the driveway. If it's some douchebag who is so high that he's not really noticing little things like pain and fear just at that exact moment, then I'd feel pretty good about having more than a six round capacity.

Last edited by Joe Perez; 11-12-2008 at 10:51 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 11-12-2008, 10:31 AM   #45
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All good points Joe.

Good to see not everyone here is closeminded and we can have a mature discussion.
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Old 11-12-2008, 02:29 PM   #46
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Joe: You're right I guess cartridge is the wrong term, I'm thinking of magazine.
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Old 11-12-2008, 03:26 PM   #47
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M1A1 would be on my list. Call me old fashioned.

P.S. Phil Miculek is awesome!
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Old 11-12-2008, 03:28 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trito View Post
Joe: You're right I guess cartridge is the wrong term, I'm thinking of magazine.
Don't you think that someone who is grossly ignorant to firearms should not make arguments regarding them?
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Old 11-12-2008, 03:35 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BradC View Post
Actually a .223/5.56mm has less a chance of over penetration than a standard pistol round.

Sources - Pistol versus Rifle Caliber Ammunition
Olympic Arms, Inc. - Real World .223 Testing




Actually Obama has, more than once, mentioned a push for a complete ban on concealed carry. While not an outright ban on all guns, it sure diminishes their usefulness.



I don't know about you, but if I am in the situation where I need a firearm to defend myself, I want the quickest shooting weapon with the highest capacity magazine I can have. Shoot the threat down.
You're Right on many accounts. I've looked up Obamas previous voting record on 2nd amendment rights, and he hasn't voted PRO 2nd very often.

My self-defense round of choice.

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Originally Posted by Ben View Post
Don't you think that someone who is grossly ignorant to firearms should not make arguments regarding them?
+1 x11tybillion
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Old 11-12-2008, 07:01 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Awaiting thread titled "Who here does their own reloads?" in 5... 4... 3... 2...

Umm...I won't start a thread, but does it really surprise anyone here that I do?

When I was shooting competition, it was a necessity. I don't shoot competitively anymore, but I still have 18,000 Hornady .40 bullets and a five gallon bucket of brass, so I'm covered, at least for my .40. I have a few thousand brass and bullets to load my .223 and quite a bit less stuff for my .454 and .270 which I reload not only for cost but better accuracy. My .454 are up to close to $30 for a box of 20 if I have to buy. I can reload with 300 grain Hornady XTP bullets for about $.40 each for bullet, powder and primer.
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Old 11-12-2008, 10:36 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by johndoe View Post
I think elesjuan definitely has a valid point that making guns (or some subset) illegal won't stop people from getting them. But if some kinds were illegal at least those caught using them in a crime would get additional jail time.
Umm.... what's the difference between robbery and armed robbery? The use of a weapon and additional jail time. The law already adds penalties for using a gun in a criminal act. Also, as far as I know if you are in posession of a firearm and committing any felony (21+ mph over the limit can be tried as a felony in TX), you are in violation of federal gun laws already.

If I happen to have a shotgun under the back seat of my truck and get pulled over for going 51 in a 30 I could technically be arrested and put in a federal pen for 15 years for violating gun laws.

So, you want to tell me that we need to ban guns in order to have a penalty in writing? We already have a lot of them!!! The problem is that there are not enough police officers, they are rarely in the right place (I don't want to get shot either so I can't blame them), and the courts don't enforce laws properly IF the scum bag is caught.

It's my constitutional right to own them and I intend to do so. period.



*edit* Also, the 2nd amendment in it's entirety reads as follows:
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

This means two things to me...

1) If Barack takes away my guns he is unamerica, a traitor, and should be removed from office for failure to uphold the oath he will give when sworn in to protect and defend the constitution.

2) We have the right to bear arms to "protect our free state"... aka defend ourselves from once again being stepped on by the government (which in my opinion is treating us much worse right now than taxation without representation). NOT TO DEFEND OURSELVES AGAINST CRIMINAL. That's just a pleasant side affect.

Last edited by Arkmage; 11-12-2008 at 10:49 PM.
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Old 11-12-2008, 10:48 PM   #52
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I didn't actually say they should be banned. I was kind of musing. And additional time over the existing laws would be some kind of deterrent. Then again criminals are stupid... Ah hell, I don't really care. I don't need a gun for personal protection because I won't live or go to places where that might be necessary. period.
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Old 11-12-2008, 11:42 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Arkmage View Post
*SNIP*

So, you want to tell me that we need to ban guns in order to have a penalty in writing? We already have a lot of them!!! The problem is that there are not enough police officers, they are rarely in the right place (I don't want to get shot either so I can't blame them), and the courts don't enforce laws properly IF the scum bag is caught.
Whats the best solution for lack of police officers? Obviously its not more.

NYC CANCELS POLICE CLASS, CUTS JOBS - New York Post

You know, speaking of race, gender, politics and the police force... I tried pretty hard for 3 years to get myself onto a police department and was turned away at every corner. Personally I thought of myself as a perfect candidate for a worth while LEO; Had never been arrested, have a spotless driving record, bright, very quick on my feet, Honest (I'm an Eagle Scout, how more honest can you get?)

Some things I don't have:

A Harvard Law Degree
Financing for Harvard Law Degree

A running total of about 12 different departments collectively, 2 Sheriffs departments, and three City Departments were WAY more interested in the fact that I didn't immediately jump into a $260,000 debt for post-high school college enrollment than anything else.

KCMO-PD told me before I even interviewed with the Chief that since I'm not Black or a Woman I didnt have a chance in hell of getting on with them. Growing up my best friends father was a Police Officer for 25 years and I wanted so greatly to walk in his shoes when I was old enough. The more I grew up and the more other crooked *** cops I met, the more motivation I had to become something better than any of them ever could be. Cest La vie, was a stupid dream anyway.

Quote:
*SNIP*

2) We have the right to bear arms to "protect our free state"... aka defend ourselves from once again being stepped on by the government (which in my opinion is treating us much worse right now than taxation without representation). NOT TO DEFEND OURSELVES AGAINST CRIMINAL. That's just a pleasant side affect.
Isn't treason punishable by death, still?
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Old 11-13-2008, 12:02 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Ben View Post
Prices have already been going up. I've seen AR's that I was watching at $700 a couple months ago climb to $800-900 preceding the election, and then to $1500 within a few days after the election.

A couple of the manufacturers are reporting that they aren't keeping up with current demand.

But I do not think that Obama will immediately go after guns. He will do it, but not immediately.
I decided to buy one of these.

DPMS: AR-15 Rifles, Parts and Accessories.

Mark
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Old 11-13-2008, 12:18 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Markp View Post
I decided to buy one of these.

DPMS: AR-15 Rifles, Parts and Accessories.

Mark
I want that bad. I sold my competition air rifle for $1500 with plans to get one of those and a pistol. Never spent the money. The price is right on that one and i like the stainless barrel.
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Old 11-13-2008, 12:22 AM   #56
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I want that bad. I sold my competition air rifle for $1500 with plans to get one of those and a pistol. Never spent the money. The price is right on that one and i like the stainless barrel.
Actually, I picked it up for $975 with 3 20rd mags. MD does not allow for mags greater than 20 rds. I also liked the stainless barrel. Sorry to say, but the quality of the best AK's don't even seem close.

Mark
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Old 11-13-2008, 07:00 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by trito View Post
Joe: You're right I guess cartridge is the wrong term, I'm thinking of magazine.
Not to further rag on you......but what does a magazine have to do with anything?? My .380 simi holds 6 in the mag. I have only two mags but, I have four speed loaders for my 357. Getting to the point, most simis dont hold 30 rounds. Even more importantly you can reload revolvers quickly enough.
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Old 11-13-2008, 08:40 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markp View Post
I decided to buy one of these.

DPMS: AR-15 Rifles, Parts and Accessories.

Mark
Nice score. That's one I've been watching too. I've also been watching the classifieds to see if something used and local comes up for reasonable.

I'm considering selling one of my two sniper rifles to fund the AR. No one seems to be talking about banning sniper rifles.
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Old 11-14-2008, 12:14 AM   #59
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Nice score. That's one I've been watching too. I've also been watching the classifieds to see if something used and local comes up for reasonable.

I'm considering selling one of my two sniper rifles to fund the AR. No one seems to be talking about banning sniper rifles.
Well you wouldn't use a sniper rifle to kill people, I mean, where is the fun in that?

Strange thing is that my "AR-15" with the heavy barrel and fixed stock is not an "assault" weapon in MD. Folding or collapsible stock, and it would be (and subject to a 7 day wait.) Would you mind selling me the collapsible stock on the wall... I want to make it an assault rifle when I get home! LMAO. No I didn't buy the collapsible stock... I was tempted to make a point.

So now I have a semi-auto "sporting rifle" capable of 0.5" MOA and 3 20 round clips.... but an AK with a folding stock, 1 30 round clip and inherently poor accuracy is more dangerous?!? WTF.

I did order my M70AB underfolder parts kit today. Because everyone needs a clean relatively untraceable weapon. After all, it's not a gun without a receiver. Brilliant. Drill some holes, fold a piece of steel with a harbor freight bender and voila... you have a fully functional AK.

RANT
Now, I am stupid, I purchased all the compliance parts to make a LEGAL AK... The criminals... they save a few bucks and just roll full auto... Anyone see something wrong with this picture?!?
/Rant.

So I will have one of each.

Mark
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Old 11-14-2008, 05:03 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markp View Post
I did order my M70AB underfolder parts kit today. Because everyone needs a clean relatively untraceable weapon. After all, it's not a gun without a receiver. Brilliant. Drill some holes, fold a piece of steel with a harbor freight bender and voila... you have a fully functional AK.

RANT
Now, I am stupid, I purchased all the compliance parts to make a LEGAL AK... The criminals... they save a few bucks and just roll full auto... Anyone see something wrong with this picture?!?
/Rant.

So I will have one of each.

Mark
Heres the bitch; In the state of Kansas with recent legislation you can purchase (with jumping through hoops..) a Fully Automatic "Weapon." However, something you CAN'T do is buy 'hop up' parts or fully automatic receiver combination from say a full Auto M-16 for your AR15. How fucked up is that? Its still considered a federal offense to 'modify' your semi-auto to full auto even if you've got proper paperwork.
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