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Old 07-17-2008, 06:20 PM   #41
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The P22 is probably the coolest looking piece in the lot, except maybe for the XD. But it's certainly not nearly as small as a PF9 and doesn't have the nifty belt clip.
let's not forget that it's a .22LR, so carrying it is stupid.
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Old 07-17-2008, 06:51 PM   #42
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let's not forget that it's a .22LR, so carrying it is stupid.
A .22 in the pocket is better than a .45 at the house.

Gotta agree though, carrying a full sized .22 like that is silly when you've got so many larger caliber concealable weapons to choose from.
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Old 07-17-2008, 08:15 PM   #43
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ben, join over at ktog.org
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Old 07-17-2008, 08:22 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by xveganxcowboyx View Post
After you've put some rounds through it post a little review. I've played with a few Kel-Tec's, but never been thrilled with the quality, but it can vary from model to model.
Will do. I plan to do the recommended cleaning/polishing/deburring. It should come with the newer trigger spring. I'll order the wide trigger overlay when I order the belt clip. I might squeeze some off before the mods, but I'll definitely put a few hundred down range after the mods within a month or so.

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ben, join over at ktog.org
I've browsed it, but don't plan on joining the forum. I don't care for the tone and atmosphere. I have joined thefiringline and glocktalk, which both seem to be good sites. There are a lot of guys on tfl and gt that also have pretty high end weapons that daily carry a PF9 or P11.
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Old 07-17-2008, 08:51 PM   #45
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Check out thehighroad.org also.
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Old 07-17-2008, 10:51 PM   #46
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9x18 has such a low muzzle energy that you should NEVER CARRY HP ammo in one, the same for .380. The energy is so low that they only get 3-4" of penetration. 6" is the minimum "required lethal penetration". So, the moral of the story is that if you intend to carry a gun for self defense instead of paper, buy something with more *** than a 9x18 or .380. 9mm is a good round, .40 is better but you have to trade capacity.

I'm pretty sure the Makarov is a standard eastern european police issue weapon. It's not exactly powerful, but I doubt it would have become a reasonable police standard if it didn't "get the job done."

Either way, I'll see soon enough. I heard I'm getting a second hand early birthday present that was probably used by it's last owner to put holes in Ukranian burglars.
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Old 07-17-2008, 11:37 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by xveganxcowboyx View Post
I'm pretty sure the Makarov is a standard eastern european police issue weapon. It's not exactly powerful, but I doubt it would have become a reasonable police standard if it didn't "get the job done."

Either way, I'll see soon enough. I heard I'm getting a second hand early birthday present that was probably used by it's last owner to put holes in Ukranian burglars.
Makarov or PA-63? I love my PA, just don't know that I can trust it against 2-3 large muscular muggers in downtown houston. My glock has 3 more rounds in the mag and considerably more power (and less recoil oddly enough).
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Old 07-18-2008, 02:12 AM   #48
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Nice.

I want a gun but I think Meg would shoot me. And I live in NJ...

Can't resist commenting on this, trying to own one gun is like trying to stop after eating one potato chip or drinking one beer! BTW, congrats on working for Jesel; everthing Jesel does is first class!
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Old 07-18-2008, 02:28 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xveganxcowboyx View Post
I'm pretty sure the Makarov is a standard eastern european police issue weapon. It's not exactly powerful, but I doubt it would have become a reasonable police standard if it didn't "get the job done."

Either way, I'll see soon enough. I heard I'm getting a second hand early birthday present that was probably used by it's last owner to put holes in Ukranian burglars.
I believe the 9x18 WAS a standard light/CCW handgun weapon in the eastern bloc (thus the big influx of cheap imports in the last 10 years). From a ballistics standpoint, the 9x18 (in a comparable barrel length) is not equal to the .38 Special and even further behind the .38 Special +P (both dropped by hundreds of law enforcement agencies over the last 15 years due to a perceived lack of stopping power). The "old standby" Eastern European handgun cartridge for years was the 7.62 x 25, extremely fast and flat shooting in the Tokarovs and even better in the Czech CZ-52 which can handle much hotter ammo than the Tokarov.
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Old 07-18-2008, 11:53 AM   #50
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Good info, thanks.

Their a little big for carry anyway, though surprisingly light.
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Old 07-19-2008, 01:04 AM   #51
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if I'm going to get the firearm out, I don't want the ******* to live...and that's not some e-thug ****. If I have to use it, I want to be sure I stop them. .45 all the way. I carry a .45 semi.
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Old 07-19-2008, 01:29 AM   #52
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****, I'd love to get one of them but we're not allowed any here in Ireland
I think it's got something to do with us taking over England if we had them
We're only allowed make bombs and stuff. B0llocks
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Old 07-19-2008, 01:34 AM   #53
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Coming from a non-gun person I gotta say I'm amazed at how many of you carry guns. It makes it seem like everyone in the south and midwest must be packing heat. I guess I'm not totally surprised by Texas. (Not bashing the thread, not an argument I want to get into)
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Old 07-19-2008, 09:20 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by johndoe View Post
Coming from a non-gun person I gotta say I'm amazed at how many of you carry guns. It makes it seem like everyone in the south and midwest must be packing heat. I guess I'm not totally surprised by Texas. (Not bashing the thread, not an argument I want to get into)
An armed society is a polite society.
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Old 07-19-2008, 09:49 AM   #55
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I want a 1911 army edition .45.
They are reasonable and BULLET ProoF. They have have been used in the military for decades. I think some branches have switched. But only due to bidding.

I love guns. Going into a gun shop makes me feel like a kid in the Candy Store.
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Old 07-19-2008, 02:46 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by johndoe View Post
Coming from a non-gun person I gotta say I'm amazed at how many of you carry guns. It makes it seem like everyone in the south and midwest must be packing heat. I guess I'm not totally surprised by Texas. (Not bashing the thread, not an argument I want to get into)
Look at it this way... the more of us that carry the more likely criminals are to not be criminals. If they know their chances of mugging the wrong person are increasing every day MAYBE their dumb *** will consider a career change.

My dad is an avid gun enthusiast, but doesn't carry. I've also known people who are "anti-gun" liberal fuckos, that buy a gun on the street because they have a felony record for DWIs and can't buy one with papers.

As long as your remain cool with our right to carry, we will be cool with your right to not carry
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Old 07-19-2008, 03:11 PM   #57
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Hustler, though totally not the right person to take any turbo related advice from, can teach you a lesson on why it's important that good guys should carry guns too. Maybe if you ask him real polite like, he'll share.

Other interesting support. There is a town in GA called Kennessaw where for many years it was a law that every head of household owned a firearm. There was no crime to speak of there, until recently when the law was eventually repealed. However the crime rate there is still extremely low compared to the average, as all the bad guys know that most households still pack.

Last edited by Ben; 07-19-2008 at 03:29 PM.
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Old 07-19-2008, 03:25 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toddcod View Post
I want a 1911 army edition .45.
They are reasonable and BULLET ProoF. They have have been used in the military for decades. I think some branches have switched. But only due to bidding.

I love guns. Going into a gun shop makes me feel like a kid in the Candy Store.
Yeah, pistols carried in the Army now are M9s.
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Old 07-19-2008, 04:37 PM   #59
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Once again, I get destracted from the forum for a few days and miss the bulk of a good thread.

Ben, good luck with the Kel-Tec and keep an eye on the extractor. It tends to be the weakest point on the weapon.

I just picked up not one, but two, Ruger LCPs; one for me, one for the wife. Made the purchase at lunch on Wed and stopped at the range on the way home from work. At 20-yards I was able to get a 7-8 inch grouping sitting about 14-16 inches S-SW (low and left) of center. At 15-yards the drop was within 8 inches. - More than adequate for a pocket gun with a 2.8 inch barrel.

Flip is manageable and after break-in, I figure I should be able to get a reliable double-tap from the weapon. Cor-Bon JHPs will compensate for the smaller round.

My Kimber CDP Pro is my preferred carry option, but summer time in South Texas does lead toward lighter clothing making concealment a touch more difficult. Dropped in the front pocket of a pair of Dockers or Levis, the LCP is essentially invisible.

Cheers!

- L



PS - (Kotomile): The push to the M9s was an attempt to standardize rounds within NATO. However, most SOF units have switched back to the .45s.
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Old 07-19-2008, 04:44 PM   #60
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PS - (Kotomile): The push to the M9s was an attempt to standardize rounds within NATO. However, most SOF units have switched back to the .45s.
Right, I don't hang around very many SF/SO guys (mainly other intel weenies/linguists) but the ones I do talk to make it very clear that the SOF do what they want, how they want.
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