Why don't I want a Subaru?
 

I have car ADD.
I want another turbo car, that's not FWD this time (although my Speed 3 was a fun car).
I don't want a BMW.
I've always wanted a boost buggy.

EVO X is out since there is only one Mitsu dealer in the state and they are ~120 miles away.

Looking at picking up a 2015 WRX or WRX STi toward the end of the year. (Although I wonder if Subaru is going to release a 2.5L FA engine for the STi in 2016)

Are the stories of broken ring lands and toasted motors more overblown internet hype? Is it safe to assume with a good tune and an exhaust you aren't going to send your motor to Subaru heaven?

15's are really new and kinda uncharted territory. nothing like the previous EJ's.

the ecu definitions just got released, and the aftermarket is just now starting to pick up for them.

Pretty cool car though, even if it looks absolutely butt ugly from the side/rear. Lots of new tech on the 15's: direct injection, 6 speed on the wrx, FA20 engine, twin scroll, stiffer chassis, lots of really cool things.

or were you considering any subaru? cause I can ramble your ear off about the older ones. 15's not as much, we're all still learning about those

Yeah, the WRX is the new FA, but the STi is still the old EJ, correct? Those are pretty well-known at this point, right?

I'd consider a slightly older STi, mainly if I could find a hatchback, but it seems that around here the prices are so close to new for a lightly used "non-brodeo" STi, it seems worth it to go ahead and buy new.

But please, ramble my ear off. You may convince me to look for a used one.

because used is always better?

if buying new I'd probably try the wrx. way way better mpg, lots more lowend grunt, also has 6 speed (not same as sti, but still).

honestly the prices are absurd, and I think you have it right: rather than "saving" only like 1k over new with a 15k-20k mile used car, I'd probably just buy new.

just keep your eyes open for really good deals, cause that's the only way I'd get a used one.

they're fun cars. I'm sure you've seen the numerous threads and posts I've made here about them, as well as our unofficial "subaru section" lol.

until you open CL to find 30k mile GR/GV's selling for 27k

LOLLLLL

See the practical side says the WRX Limited would make a great DD.

But the lack of real LSD's, Brembo's, etc, make me pine for the ricer version. The plan would still be to do a few track days a year and do some Auto-X, as well as drive it to work everyday.

That's what makes me want to pony up for the STi.

if you want to track it then yes, the sti might be the better choice.
then do a few things that are pretty much mandatory:
tune
killerb oil pickup and baffle
proper catch can/aos setup

all 3 are critical if you want it to hold together

oh, that's crazy.

Any other things? Suggestions on tunes, or just make the drive down to Plano and let COBB do it?

If you're near cobb, you can't go wrong with cobb protune. As long as its not a canned OTS tune.

That's really all I can think of to start with. Everything else is more of a want, not need.

Yeah, I'm up in Tulsa, so Cobb is only about a 3.5-4 hour drive. It would be worth it to go to a shop that knows what they are doing.

Learn me.

well flowing turboback, 3port bcs, and tune and you're "stage2" and pick up 60ish hp and 80ish tq on pump gas. add e85 and make even more. then start chucking bigger turbos, intercoolers, yadda yadda it never stops.

long block should be good to about 400 give or take and depending on use/abuse.

if you want a track monster an evo is probably a better platform, but around town they don't even compare.


*edit: a really easy/solid setup to me is a basic stage2+e85. last GR STi I tuned like that made 350/400, simple, easy, quick.

Yeah I was thinking TBE + Tune = big boost in power and response without compromising longevity/reliability? Is that a safe assumption? When you say the longblock is good to 400ish, is that whp or crank?

As far as bigger turbo's/intercoolers/etc, no thanks. If I go drop nearly $40k on my DD it needs to be RELIABLE.


Don't need a track monster. Just something I can take out a few times per year and not have to worry about grenading it.

yep, about as reliable as it gets with mods.
whp
I don't think subaru's get too much unreliable until you go past the 400 mark

on pump gas 300/330 should be solid.

Nice, with the extra low-end and mid grunt, that should put as fast or faster than my '13 GT, which is exactly what I want.

The NC is fun to throw around, but I have hard time imaging $6-7k for a super/turbo setup on that car.

Any suggestions for brands of EBC or TBE?

I always wanted a wrx/sti. Then I got one and it was cool and all for a little while. But I'm bored of the crappy ride and tank like handling and otherwise heavy feeling. The whole 26mpg on the highway thing is also shitty. Every time I drive it I keep thinking, "I could have bought a 4th gen f-body for the same money, made more power, got better gas mileage, had the same handling and not had ever flat brimmer and high schooler try to talk to me about my car."

And then you have me show you this comparison of buying new, with more or less the way I would order.
Subaru WRX | The New 2015 WRX
Looks like subarus sharing thing is messed up, its a base WRX with STi wheels, sti front and side lip kit, and the sti shifter.

vs
http://bp3.ford.com/2015-Ford-Mustang/MakeItYours/Config[%7CFord%7CMustang%7C2015%7C1%7C1%5E%7C100A%5EP8T%5 E%5EYZ%5E%5E883%5ECOU%5E67E%5E44X%5E~YZKAA%5EV6%5E LESS%5E]?fmccmp=sharethis&zipcode=01608&imagetoken=Image[|Ford|Mustang|2015|1|1^|100A^P8T^^YZ^^883^LTS^COU^ 67E^642^44X^V6^LESS^891^13D^53H^]&usecookiezip=true

But I can justify $40k on a completely new car :jerkit:

:facepalm:
umm, ok.
if you would pick an f body over a subaru then I won't even waste time responding to this stupid post.

Interior quality and chassis dynamics sophistication are both at the same levels. :rofl:

Totes brah.
Leafy will always be Leafy.

Get an f-body brah. Can't go wrong.

And your point?

The Miata will still need another $3-5k in supporting mods on top of the supercharger (it's still bone stock right now). A 250whp NC on the stock suspension and cooling system. lulz. Then there is the crummy stereo, etc etc etc.

I don't really want to have $20k+ tied up in a $10k car.

Everyone has different priorities. :dealwithit:

I already owned a '13 GT with the Track Pack and it cost me $30k out the door.

I'd really like to try something different.

I'd buy an EVO X with DCT trans if there were a local dealer and be done. The Subaru engine reputation makes me a bit reticent.

Lol whatever. Wasnt the real point of the post. It was more of. Optioned to my preference a new ecoboost mustang and a new wrx cost the same, and the mustang is better looking and lighter. The both fill his, car with boost that isnt fwd request. And the mustang will probably make more power "stage 2" and will be WAY easier to put an EFR on and get better gas mileage and handle better and look better.

I guess you skipped the part where I said stuff like changing turbo's/intercoolers/etc wouldn't be happening on the DD.

Just the small stuff.

Well I mean, I just put that out there for funzies if you ever got bored of the 320-350ish hp that a "stage 2" 2.3 ecoboost should be able to put out. A b1 frame efr is only 1 butt weld elbow, 2 flanges, and a downpipe away.

My point was really just that the logic was rediculous. You just want a new car. Which is fine. I just find it funny when people use the whole, "I can't see spending $x,xxx on a cheaper car so I'm just going to drop two or three times that amount on another car" argument. Just say I want something new and money isn't an issue. If it was a car that was having maintenance issues and nickel and diming you that would make sense.

probably

probably

maybe

probably

most likely

probably

....don't Leafy up yet another thread please.
We're talking about real cars and mods here. There are a billion cars better than a billion other cars. A subaru is nowhere near the top of "best of" list, but this is not a hypothetical thread where we dream of different cars we've never even driven, and talk about mods not even out for them, and potential not even discovered yet.

Email sent to COBB for some info on tuning rates and such.

My beef with EJs and probably the new F stuff is that I have never seen it do anything a modern aluminum block I-4 can't. And the I-4 does it with just 1 cylinder head and two cams and manifolds that don't look like a drunk metal sculptors attempt at spiders. If I am going to deal with all that crap I want a lot of displacement and the ability to make 500+ WHP without having to dick with 25+ psi tuning on pump. And I want actual top end power.

I would take a 4G63 over any EJ ever, and I bet I will say the same for a 4B11 or even K24 over the new F stuff.

What the H4 lets you do is have not have an engine and tranny layout like audi's awd aka more than half the engine hanging out over in front of the axle or without the inherent weakness of the transverse tranny layout ala the 323 gtx, or without some of the more sillier layouts that involve running drivetrain parts through the oil pan.

correct: placement, packaging, and configuration is the name of the game.

Not power potential.

Not a whole lot of 4 cyl engines can touch the peak power potential of a 4G63 or K. But you don't see everyone and their mother driving them, and there's a reason for that. Again, I just want to be clear that we're all on the same page: a subaru is not the best at anything. But its good at a whole lot of things.

Well I mean, theres a reason you dont see that and its not because the engines arent good, its because they were all put in either crappy or expensive chassis. Subarus make much better daily drivers than Evos and they're a bunch cheaper too boot. If the k20/24 was put in a rwd chassis that was designed by honda circa 1986 engineers you'd see them all over the place.

I would prefer an EVO X, however, there isn't a Mitsu dealer in town. It's either 2 hours to OKC or 3 hours to Springfield, and neither of those dealers even stock EVO's, which would make me weary about any warranty work.

So I have to drive to either Dallas or KC just to buy one.

It's amazing to me that Springfield, a town of 150k has a Mitsu dealer, and a Tulsa a metro area of 1 million doesn't.

Subaru's are a bunch cheaper?

The EVO X and STi both start right aronud $35k.

The EVO X is a great car, when I said the evo was more expensive I was talking about the 4g63, which is in the older evos and those pull a premium over their subaru counterparts because mitsu sold a shit load less of them. The EVO X is a bunch more comfortable than the older ones. The lower spec but still turbo lancers are more comfortable, I forget which one it is, but its basically the EVO IX tranny and diffs with the new motor with a smaller turbo, that one was quite nice.

drive an evoX around town and get back to me lol
I laughed hysterically the last time I drove one because of how painful it was. wost...daily...ever. in every sense of the word. and the one I drove we tuned to 330whp with bolt ons, wasn't even stock. no torque til 4500ish and when it finally comes on its so uneventful. aside from seats and wheel, interior was on par with dodge neon. and even the seats aren't comfy, just hold you down well.

Great track car though.

(and the X is an absolute pig at 3500lb)

So basically the EVO X is full of gay and AIDS?

I'm just reading so much stuff about the #4 ringlands, reminds me of the #8 problems with the Coyotes.

I mean, the wife and I do alright and live somewhere cheap, but the thought of dropping $40k on a car that might blow up stock........that's disheartening.

many blow up DUE to the stock map.
which is hilarious.
and why tune was the 1st thing I listed.

it basically keeps car in closed loop and running mid 13's AFR all the way up to about 4k

because smog

Which is the same problem as all 06 and new WRXs (and I forget the cutoff year for STi). They pretty much should be tuned as soon as you pull off the dealer lot, and I mean you'd want to do that anyways because almost every single car has super shitty programming for the electronic throttle.

That's insane. So basically, if I buy one, gingerly drive it down to Plano to get tuned?

Oh no, you dont want to drive a new engine gingery though, you have to break it in... assuming it hasnt already been ruined by being test drove.

Like my Mustang, if I spent that kind of dough on a car, it would be special order.

My Mustang had 6 miles on it when I took it from the dealership.

And the whole "break it in how you'll drive it" is a myth. Modern engines are broken in before they leave the factory these days.

These aren't late 60s muscle cars with ridiculously loose tolerances.

I bought my R6 with 12 miles on it.........babied it like crazy for the first 1000 miles (I was new to 2 wheels), and when I sold it at 30k (remember beat on it like a red-headed step child and track days) it still didn't need a valve adjustment or show lack of compression, etc. Quit listening to the 65 year old guys.

Nothing makes me laugh harder then the stupid "drive it like you stole it to break it in" nonsense.

Definitely not. 10-12 3rd gear pulls is all thats required. Then the car is broken in, change the oil and proceed with life as normal. Or would you prefer to shift at 3k and never use more than 1/2 throttle for the first 500 miles of car ownership?

As much as it pains me to agree with Leafy (and, believe me, I'd rather shove shards of broken glass up my asshole and then go for a swim in a tub filled with hot sauce), I've heard this advice uttered by enough sage old greybeards to believe that there's something to it.

It has also thus far failed to do me wrong.

Come out to the autox on the 10th and take a ride along in my '13 Stg 2 STI as well as a friends new '15 bone stock WRX and see what you like. There's a reason that this forum has its own Subaru owners thread. :) But for the love of god, don't compare a 4th gen to a subaru LOL.

this. just pull massive amounts of vacuum and move on with life.

Horse track or "Bells"?

The last engine I did that 500 mile easy-peasy routine with died of thrust bearing wear (crankwalk) within 10K miles LOL. :jerkit:

And what's sad is that A) most Mitsu dealers suck IME, and B) there's still a fair chance Mitsu will give up on selling cars in the US anyway since they have been getting their asses kicked basically since ever in terms of sales.

So even if there was a dealer in Tulsa, its probably not such a good idea.

And I cannot fathom spending 35K on an Evo or STi. Plus, take a gander at what the replacement cost is if you blow the fancy paddle-matic Evo X trans. But don't worry, Mitsu is great at honoring warranties right? :vash:

Yeah, in terms of buying new, STi over Evo any day.

The solution is a 30K new STi with a 4B11 in it.

Fuck an easy break in. I love not seating my rings.

Hasn't failed me yet. :dealwithit:

I have manpants, so the moment i pull the MX6 out of the driveway, the car will see wastegate pressure within 20 seconds.

I think wastegate pressure is 21psi.

It'll probably be fine.

I loved my 97 Outback. Slow as shit but indestructible and was bomber in the winters. I hated the gas mileage though.

For a daily, my Jetta Sportwagen TDI has been 80k miles of bliss. Can't argue with 48 mpg and comfort. Plus with a good set of winters I never have a problem in the snow.

And before anyone brings up lolfailvwmaintenance, I haven't had to do anything besides standard maintenance.

I've been toying with the idea of replacing the WRX with an Audi A3 TDi...

I'd rather a 328d x-drive wagon, but I'm throwing down that much cheddah.

I have cars which are worth actual money, that if I blow up or break, I would actually care about :giggle:

We are back in the horse track infield this month.

This is my daily driver. I go hard. Now go comment on my build thread. I'm lonely.

I know these don't really cross shop, but I'm also considering a BRZ.

Have you driven the BRZ? I'd rather have an NC, having driven them back to back.