UTCC / Hyperfest 2018
05-13-2018, 10:00 PM
#41
By "alternate drain hose" he meant like an additional one assembled but not on the car, that can be swapped out to test the theory. Sounds like the one with the check valve worked and result was oil stayed where it was supposed to, the one without did not work and result was oil everywhere in engine bay.
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05-13-2018, 11:30 PM
#43
I am a bit confused as to the oil vent problem. My catch can fills up with watery E85 smelling something. My oil levels would never go down as much as the stuff I got out of the vent. I’d dump 2 qts on a typical track day. Oil level barely moved. I assumed it was water vapor from burning E85.
I assume Emilio’s problem is a bit different. Sounds like mostly oil in his case. In any case I’d keep a close eye on oil levels and quality. Make sure the crankcase is not filling up with that E85 watery stuff I get out of mine.
Look forward to hearing more about VIR results!
I assume Emilio’s problem is a bit different. Sounds like mostly oil in his case. In any case I’d keep a close eye on oil levels and quality. Make sure the crankcase is not filling up with that E85 watery stuff I get out of mine.
Look forward to hearing more about VIR results!
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05-13-2018, 11:55 PM
#44
Got bunch of clean laps today so I'll have some good video with data tomorrow. We are also concerned about the E85 that has always pooled in the catch can when the engine is warming up. Normally I just drain that after warmup then ignore it for the rest of the day. Now that might be draining into the sump. So the heater might help or maybe closing the drain during warmup then somehow siphoning it off before going on track. Still work to do but at least it's not spraying oil all over now.
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05-14-2018, 09:58 AM
#46
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You could always add a 2nd DTA, drain to atmosphere. warm up, ditch your water vapor, then run the rain to the pan while racing for oil vapor. Talk about a complicated system though.
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05-14-2018, 04:50 PM
#49
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It's been a lot of long hours to get the new front finished in time for UTCC (original deadline for next event was June). New GT1000 wing at the rear to balance. Tested Friday at WSIR with the 949 guys. Mega grip, doing 1:27's while just cruising and doing systems check on cycled RC1s.
Lots of scraping, ride height was a little too low. Lost a CV joint boot on the right axle which ended the day, but I had found the weak points that needed correction so it was job done. Sat/Sun were long days. Built struts to support the rear endplates (GT1000 is an animal, serious suction under that wing, Emilio and I were both bending the endplates through T8 and down the front straight). Resized the front endplates, made new titanium wear strips for the front endplates with rounded edges to reduce the shock when they scrape, added an additional mounting point in the splitter with corresponding mount in the frame (good problem to have, tons of downforce), pulled the axle and replaced the boot, raised the car a half inch front and rear to improve clearance. Got it buttoned up last night and the car's with 949 now.
Three days to catch up on sleep. I'm not stoked about the weather forecast.
Lots of scraping, ride height was a little too low. Lost a CV joint boot on the right axle which ended the day, but I had found the weak points that needed correction so it was job done. Sat/Sun were long days. Built struts to support the rear endplates (GT1000 is an animal, serious suction under that wing, Emilio and I were both bending the endplates through T8 and down the front straight). Resized the front endplates, made new titanium wear strips for the front endplates with rounded edges to reduce the shock when they scrape, added an additional mounting point in the splitter with corresponding mount in the frame (good problem to have, tons of downforce), pulled the axle and replaced the boot, raised the car a half inch front and rear to improve clearance. Got it buttoned up last night and the car's with 949 now.
Three days to catch up on sleep. I'm not stoked about the weather forecast.
Last edited by ThePass; 05-14-2018 at 05:24 PM.
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05-14-2018, 05:03 PM
#50
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Got dem, you guys ain't joking around with aero mods in a short time-frame! Anxious to see both of these cars in person and run on track.
I wouldn't read too much into the forecast, it will definitely change between now and this Friday. Most spring t-storms around "here" are random in regards to area and sometimes even sporadic. The old "if you don't like the weather, just wait 30 minutes" saying.
But yeah...... bring rain tires
It's a fact, if we're all prepared for rain, it won't happen.
I wouldn't read too much into the forecast, it will definitely change between now and this Friday. Most spring t-storms around "here" are random in regards to area and sometimes even sporadic. The old "if you don't like the weather, just wait 30 minutes" saying.
But yeah...... bring rain tires
It's a fact, if we're all prepared for rain, it won't happen.
Last edited by flier129; 05-14-2018 at 05:22 PM.
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05-14-2018, 08:06 PM
#51
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It's been a lot of long hours to get the new front finished in time for UTCC (original deadline for next event was June). New GT1000 wing at the rear to balance. Tested Friday at WSIR with the 949 guys. Mega grip, doing 1:27's while just cruising and doing systems check on cycled RC1s.
Lots of scraping, ride height was a little too low. Lost a CV joint boot on the right axle which ended the day, but I had found the weak points that needed correction so it was job done. Sat/Sun were long days. Built struts to support the rear endplates (GT1000 is an animal, serious suction under that wing, Emilio and I were both bending the endplates through T8 and down the front straight). Resized the front endplates, made new titanium wear strips for the front endplates with rounded edges to reduce the shock when they scrape, added an additional mounting point in the splitter with corresponding mount in the frame (good problem to have, tons of downforce), pulled the axle and replaced the boot, raised the car a half inch front and rear to improve clearance. Got it buttoned up last night and the car's with 949 now.
Three days to catch up on sleep. I'm not stoked about the weather forecast.
Lots of scraping, ride height was a little too low. Lost a CV joint boot on the right axle which ended the day, but I had found the weak points that needed correction so it was job done. Sat/Sun were long days. Built struts to support the rear endplates (GT1000 is an animal, serious suction under that wing, Emilio and I were both bending the endplates through T8 and down the front straight). Resized the front endplates, made new titanium wear strips for the front endplates with rounded edges to reduce the shock when they scrape, added an additional mounting point in the splitter with corresponding mount in the frame (good problem to have, tons of downforce), pulled the axle and replaced the boot, raised the car a half inch front and rear to improve clearance. Got it buttoned up last night and the car's with 949 now.
Three days to catch up on sleep. I'm not stoked about the weather forecast.
I wish I could make it back to VIR this year. Very challenging track.
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05-14-2018, 08:53 PM
#53
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Emilio is busy loading, I'm sure, so I'll clarify here. The drain-back catch can (Radium AOS) is something we've had installed and functioning on a 300whp BP6D test car for about a year now, and I briefly described it to Emilio and John on Friday over the phone to help alleviate the problem.
Not quite. The issue, as Aidan unintentionally alludes to below, is that if the drain is above the level of the oil (as it is in your case), the drain hose becomes a vent hose. The hose is larger and the vapors have to blow straight up, so less comes out, but you'll still get something out of the "vent". The goal of the check valve is to seal this hose when there's positive pressure. If you submerge the drain hose under the level of the oil in the pan, you can get the catch can to drain even with positive pressure in the crankcase. The oil level in the drain line and the oil level in the pan will want to naturally equalize. In that case, the check valve becomes an insurance policy, since under high cornering loads, the drain can become un-submerged.
The MSM's AOS drains back through a really elaborate, expensive tube which traces all the way down into the very bottom of the pan, which is a good indication of the importance of keeping the drain hose submerged as often as possible.
In our initial testing, we ran it without the check valve. and the problem got better, but it still wasn't solved. The check valve was the secret sauce.
It's a drain line, not a vent. The vent is from the top of the valve cover. See above
Blowby gases will condense if allowed to cool. The stuff that falls out of suspension is nasty. It also takes a lot of time for that to happen. The Radium AOS has ports for coolant, which is the secret behind draining all that stuff back to the pan safely. If you never allow the blowby to cool, the combustion byproducts and water vapor never fall out of suspension.
Logically, all this **** came from the crankcase in the first place. If you can get it back into the crankcase at the same temperature, it won't cause any additional damage. Having said that, on E85, you should be changing your oil a lot, and monitoring the fuel levels in the oil through regular oil analysis anyway.
So it's still blowing more oil out the Breather than we would so we are going to put a check valve in the drain line. It's a separate line that we assembled last night so just swap in the new one with a rollover valve in it. Needs to have basically zero cracking pressure so the oil Mass draining out of the separator can open it and flow into the pan. Any positive pressure in the crankcase will close it so any oil in the line cannot be pushed back up the tube, which is what we think is happening.
The MSM's AOS drains back through a really elaborate, expensive tube which traces all the way down into the very bottom of the pan, which is a good indication of the importance of keeping the drain hose submerged as often as possible.
In our initial testing, we ran it without the check valve. and the problem got better, but it still wasn't solved. The check valve was the secret sauce.
I did a breather in the same place on the oil pan, but hot side. At PIR (all right turns) with way less power and grip I puked a quart of oil into my engine bay. There is a cast flat spot on the blocks right above that that used to have a breather on the gtx wrc cars. That might be a better place (and it's where bbundy has his tapped)
I am a bit confused as to the oil vent problem. My catch can fills up with watery E85 smelling something. My oil levels would never go down as much as the stuff I got out of the vent. I’d dump 2 qts on a typical track day. Oil level barely moved. I assumed it was water vapor from burning E85.
Blowby gases will condense if allowed to cool. The stuff that falls out of suspension is nasty. It also takes a lot of time for that to happen. The Radium AOS has ports for coolant, which is the secret behind draining all that stuff back to the pan safely. If you never allow the blowby to cool, the combustion byproducts and water vapor never fall out of suspension.
Logically, all this **** came from the crankcase in the first place. If you can get it back into the crankcase at the same temperature, it won't cause any additional damage. Having said that, on E85, you should be changing your oil a lot, and monitoring the fuel levels in the oil through regular oil analysis anyway.
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