UTCC / Hyperfest 2018 - Page 3 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Local Meets, Events and Tech Days Track Day? Autox? Tech Day? Beer Run? Dave and Busters?

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-13-2018, 10:00 PM   #41  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 863
Total Cats: 128
Default

By "alternate drain hose" he meant like an additional one assembled but not on the car, that can be swapped out to test the theory. Sounds like the one with the check valve worked and result was oil stayed where it was supposed to, the one without did not work and result was oil everywhere in engine bay.
Arca_ex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2018, 10:07 PM   #42  
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 18,384
Total Cats: 1,601
Default

Mmm. Makes sense.
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2018, 11:30 PM   #43  
Senior Member
iTrader: (6)
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Rafael, CA
Posts: 1,289
Total Cats: 57
Default

I am a bit confused as to the oil vent problem. My catch can fills up with watery E85 smelling something. My oil levels would never go down as much as the stuff I got out of the vent. I’d dump 2 qts on a typical track day. Oil level barely moved. I assumed it was water vapor from burning E85.

I assume Emilio’s problem is a bit different. Sounds like mostly oil in his case. In any case I’d keep a close eye on oil levels and quality. Make sure the crankcase is not filling up with that E85 watery stuff I get out of mine.

Look forward to hearing more about VIR results!
k24madness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2018, 11:55 PM   #44  
Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
emilio700's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,646
Total Cats: 1,527
Default

Got bunch of clean laps today so I'll have some good video with data tomorrow. We are also concerned about the E85 that has always pooled in the catch can when the engine is warming up. Normally I just drain that after warmup then ignore it for the rest of the day. Now that might be draining into the sump. So the heater might help or maybe closing the drain during warmup then somehow siphoning it off before going on track. Still work to do but at least it's not spraying oil all over now.
emilio700 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2018, 09:33 AM   #45  
Elite Member
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 2,298
Total Cats: 126
Default

Hey, don't forget to bring rain tires..... ugh.
flier129 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2018, 09:58 AM   #46  
Cpt. Slow
iTrader: (25)
 
curly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 12,418
Total Cats: 575
Default

You could always add a 2nd DTA, drain to atmosphere. warm up, ditch your water vapor, then run the rain to the pan while racing for oil vapor. Talk about a complicated system though.
curly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2018, 10:47 AM   #47  
Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
emilio700's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,646
Total Cats: 1,527
Default

225/45/15 H20'S will be ready if needed.
emilio700 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2018, 11:16 AM   #48  
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 18,384
Total Cats: 1,601
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by curly View Post
You could always add a 2nd DTA, drain to atmosphere. warm up, ditch your water vapor, then run the rain to the pan while racing for oil vapor. Talk about a complicated system though.
Ecu controlled valve, after warm up dump catch can and switch to pan drain. If you really want to be complicated.
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2018, 04:50 PM   #49  
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,986
Total Cats: 680
Default

It's been a lot of long hours to get the new front finished in time for UTCC (original deadline for next event was June). New GT1000 wing at the rear to balance. Tested Friday at WSIR with the 949 guys. Mega grip, doing 1:27's while just cruising and doing systems check on cycled RC1s.

Lots of scraping, ride height was a little too low. Lost a CV joint boot on the right axle which ended the day, but I had found the weak points that needed correction so it was job done. Sat/Sun were long days. Built struts to support the rear endplates (GT1000 is an animal, serious suction under that wing, Emilio and I were both bending the endplates through T8 and down the front straight). Resized the front endplates, made new titanium wear strips for the front endplates with rounded edges to reduce the shock when they scrape, added an additional mounting point in the splitter with corresponding mount in the frame (good problem to have, tons of downforce), pulled the axle and replaced the boot, raised the car a half inch front and rear to improve clearance. Got it buttoned up last night and the car's with 949 now.

Three days to catch up on sleep. I'm not stoked about the weather forecast.


Last edited by ThePass; 05-14-2018 at 05:24 PM.
ThePass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2018, 05:03 PM   #50  
Elite Member
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 2,298
Total Cats: 126
Default

Got dem, you guys ain't joking around with aero mods in a short time-frame! Anxious to see both of these cars in person and run on track.

I wouldn't read too much into the forecast, it will definitely change between now and this Friday. Most spring t-storms around "here" are random in regards to area and sometimes even sporadic. The old "if you don't like the weather, just wait 30 minutes" saying.


But yeah...... bring rain tires It's a fact, if we're all prepared for rain, it won't happen.

Last edited by flier129; 05-14-2018 at 05:22 PM.
flier129 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2018, 08:06 PM   #51  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 86
Total Cats: -7
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePass View Post
It's been a lot of long hours to get the new front finished in time for UTCC (original deadline for next event was June). New GT1000 wing at the rear to balance. Tested Friday at WSIR with the 949 guys. Mega grip, doing 1:27's while just cruising and doing systems check on cycled RC1s.

Lots of scraping, ride height was a little too low. Lost a CV joint boot on the right axle which ended the day, but I had found the weak points that needed correction so it was job done. Sat/Sun were long days. Built struts to support the rear endplates (GT1000 is an animal, serious suction under that wing, Emilio and I were both bending the endplates through T8 and down the front straight). Resized the front endplates, made new titanium wear strips for the front endplates with rounded edges to reduce the shock when they scrape, added an additional mounting point in the splitter with corresponding mount in the frame (good problem to have, tons of downforce), pulled the axle and replaced the boot, raised the car a half inch front and rear to improve clearance. Got it buttoned up last night and the car's with 949 now.

Three days to catch up on sleep. I'm not stoked about the weather forecast.

I'm liking those endplates.

I wish I could make it back to VIR this year. Very challenging track.
loudes13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2018, 08:25 PM   #52  
Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
emilio700's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,646
Total Cats: 1,527
Default

Hoping this forecast holds out. Standing water on that track plays to our strengths.
emilio700 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2018, 08:53 PM   #53  
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 14,799
Total Cats: 1,666
Default

Emilio is busy loading, I'm sure, so I'll clarify here. The drain-back catch can (Radium AOS) is something we've had installed and functioning on a 300whp BP6D test car for about a year now, and I briefly described it to Emilio and John on Friday over the phone to help alleviate the problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
So it's still blowing more oil out the Breather than we would so we are going to put a check valve in the drain line. It's a separate line that we assembled last night so just swap in the new one with a rollover valve in it. Needs to have basically zero cracking pressure so the oil Mass draining out of the separator can open it and flow into the pan. Any positive pressure in the crankcase will close it so any oil in the line cannot be pushed back up the tube, which is what we think is happening.
Not quite. The issue, as Aidan unintentionally alludes to below, is that if the drain is above the level of the oil (as it is in your case), the drain hose becomes a vent hose. The hose is larger and the vapors have to blow straight up, so less comes out, but you'll still get something out of the "vent". The goal of the check valve is to seal this hose when there's positive pressure. If you submerge the drain hose under the level of the oil in the pan, you can get the catch can to drain even with positive pressure in the crankcase. The oil level in the drain line and the oil level in the pan will want to naturally equalize. In that case, the check valve becomes an insurance policy, since under high cornering loads, the drain can become un-submerged.

The MSM's AOS drains back through a really elaborate, expensive tube which traces all the way down into the very bottom of the pan, which is a good indication of the importance of keeping the drain hose submerged as often as possible.

In our initial testing, we ran it without the check valve. and the problem got better, but it still wasn't solved. The check valve was the secret sauce.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
I did a breather in the same place on the oil pan, but hot side. At PIR (all right turns) with way less power and grip I puked a quart of oil into my engine bay. There is a cast flat spot on the blocks right above that that used to have a breather on the gtx wrc cars. That might be a better place (and it's where bbundy has his tapped)
It's a drain line, not a vent. The vent is from the top of the valve cover. See above

Quote:
Originally Posted by k24madness View Post
I am a bit confused as to the oil vent problem. My catch can fills up with watery E85 smelling something. My oil levels would never go down as much as the stuff I got out of the vent. I’d dump 2 qts on a typical track day. Oil level barely moved. I assumed it was water vapor from burning E85.


Blowby gases will condense if allowed to cool. The stuff that falls out of suspension is nasty. It also takes a lot of time for that to happen. The Radium AOS has ports for coolant, which is the secret behind draining all that stuff back to the pan safely. If you never allow the blowby to cool, the combustion byproducts and water vapor never fall out of suspension.

Logically, all this **** came from the crankcase in the first place. If you can get it back into the crankcase at the same temperature, it won't cause any additional damage. Having said that, on E85, you should be changing your oil a lot, and monitoring the fuel levels in the oil through regular oil analysis anyway.
Savington is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2018, 02:36 PM   #54  
Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
emilio700's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,646
Total Cats: 1,527
Default

So boring

emilio700 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2018, 02:47 PM   #55  
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 74,721
Total Cats: 2,059
Default

wow that turbo responds well. lol at boring.
Braineack is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2018, 02:59 PM   #56  
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 14,799
Total Cats: 1,666
Default

Lunacy
Savington is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2018, 04:25 PM   #57  
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,986
Total Cats: 680
Default

Down the hill through the kink is bonkers. Kudos.
ThePass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2018, 04:28 PM   #58  
Cpt. Slow
iTrader: (25)
 
curly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 12,418
Total Cats: 575
Default

Just for a reference, what's a S1 or S2 run there?
curly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2018, 05:08 PM   #59  
Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
emilio700's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,646
Total Cats: 1,527
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by curly View Post
Just for a reference, what's a S1 or S2 run there?
Haven't run S1 there yet. Probably 1:21 or so. S2 record around 1:26.2 IIRC
emilio700 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2018, 05:14 PM   #60  
Cpt. Slow
iTrader: (25)
 
curly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 12,418
Total Cats: 575
Default

So wow, ok.
curly is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hyperfest.... UTCC... Anyone else here at VIR? IcantDo55 Insert BS here 9 05-18-2018 05:00 PM
MSM at GRM UTCC kaisersoze Insert BS here 2 06-18-2015 01:37 AM
Who is going to UTCC @ VIR This Friday? IcantDo55 Insert BS here 5 07-22-2013 04:24 PM
Killing it at hyperfest... rappadan Insert BS here 19 06-30-2007 07:53 AM
Hyperfest '06 Pictures Braineack General Miata Chat 8 07-14-2006 03:57 PM


Tags
bullet, hyperfest, supermiata, utcc, vir

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:00 PM.




We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.