TXMC round one "photos of hustler" ;-)
#23
Come lay down a time. I'm sure we can get you in on a members day.
Times are in.
http://www.mylaps.com/results/showevent.jsp?id=624303
1 17 Joe Woodhead 1:38.090 1:43.691 1:42.778 1:40.736 1:38.090
2 2 Troy Talamantez 1:40.541 1:44.187 1:42.489 1:40.541
3 71 Chuck Cole 1:41.681 1:44.836 1:44.932 1:41.681 1:44.892
4 111 ken orgeron 1:44.049 1:44.049 1:44.807 1:44.677 1:48.314
5 41 Tim Ray 1:44.347 1:44.954 1:45.681 1:44.347 1:45.706
6 50 Bryan Harrison 1:44.502 1:48.496 1:44.502 1:44.594 1:45.067
7 13 Bradley Bollinger 1:44.562 2:00.860 1:49.289 1:44.562 1:45.182
8 405 Josh Hilts 1:45.399 1:46.769 1:45.399 1:45.755 1:45.778
9 76ss Kelly Kitchens 1:45.577 1:52.511 1:48.308 1:45.577 1:45.739
10 10 Kevin Bourque 1:46.400 1:46.400
11 440 Joshua Smith 1:46.598 1:48.220 1:46.598 1:47.774
12 0 Rich Soule 1:47.150 1:47.150
13 06 David Armstrong 1:47.533 1:47.533 1:48.916 1:49.647
14 7 Jose Bossolo 1:47.696 2:00.859 1:50.287 1:49.104 1:47.696
15 253 John D'Andrea 1:48.802 1:52.120 1:48.802 1:50.773 1:49.121
16 26 jose carreras 1:48.958 2:07.243 1:57.129 1:50.468 1:48.958
17 01 Allan Page 1:49.050 1:49.050
18 193 Terry Fair 1:49.999 1:58.907 1:51.199 1:50.503 1:49.999
19 735 Carter J White 1:50.712 1:51.643 1:52.151 1:50.712
20 07 Mitch Kramer 1:51.017 1:54.811 1:52.667 1:51.017
21 11 Kong Chang 1:51.075 2:06.904 1:56.763 1:51.987 1:51.075
22 723 Trey Rozelle 1:51.391 1:59.373 1:52.759 1:51.391
23 357 Jim Freker 1:52.434 1:55.300 1:53.746 1:52.434
24 361 Jacob Groves 1:52.658 1:57.828 2:01.868 1:52.658
25 86 joshua garcia 1:54.354 2:03.853 1:56.115 1:54.354 1:55.052
26 38 Josh Price 1:54.554 2:05.244 1:57.641 1:54.554
27 23 Jerry Paladino 1:59.294 2:13.490 2:03.085 1:59.294 2:00.312
28 25 Kevin Webb 1:59.341 1:59.341
29 07 William Groves 2:04.532 2:04.532
30 15 Xavier Anderson 2:06.757 2:12.843 2:06.757
31 420 Bert Withers Jr. --:--:--.---
Times are in.
http://www.mylaps.com/results/showevent.jsp?id=624303
1 17 Joe Woodhead 1:38.090 1:43.691 1:42.778 1:40.736 1:38.090
2 2 Troy Talamantez 1:40.541 1:44.187 1:42.489 1:40.541
3 71 Chuck Cole 1:41.681 1:44.836 1:44.932 1:41.681 1:44.892
4 111 ken orgeron 1:44.049 1:44.049 1:44.807 1:44.677 1:48.314
5 41 Tim Ray 1:44.347 1:44.954 1:45.681 1:44.347 1:45.706
6 50 Bryan Harrison 1:44.502 1:48.496 1:44.502 1:44.594 1:45.067
7 13 Bradley Bollinger 1:44.562 2:00.860 1:49.289 1:44.562 1:45.182
8 405 Josh Hilts 1:45.399 1:46.769 1:45.399 1:45.755 1:45.778
9 76ss Kelly Kitchens 1:45.577 1:52.511 1:48.308 1:45.577 1:45.739
10 10 Kevin Bourque 1:46.400 1:46.400
11 440 Joshua Smith 1:46.598 1:48.220 1:46.598 1:47.774
12 0 Rich Soule 1:47.150 1:47.150
13 06 David Armstrong 1:47.533 1:47.533 1:48.916 1:49.647
14 7 Jose Bossolo 1:47.696 2:00.859 1:50.287 1:49.104 1:47.696
15 253 John D'Andrea 1:48.802 1:52.120 1:48.802 1:50.773 1:49.121
16 26 jose carreras 1:48.958 2:07.243 1:57.129 1:50.468 1:48.958
17 01 Allan Page 1:49.050 1:49.050
18 193 Terry Fair 1:49.999 1:58.907 1:51.199 1:50.503 1:49.999
19 735 Carter J White 1:50.712 1:51.643 1:52.151 1:50.712
20 07 Mitch Kramer 1:51.017 1:54.811 1:52.667 1:51.017
21 11 Kong Chang 1:51.075 2:06.904 1:56.763 1:51.987 1:51.075
22 723 Trey Rozelle 1:51.391 1:59.373 1:52.759 1:51.391
23 357 Jim Freker 1:52.434 1:55.300 1:53.746 1:52.434
24 361 Jacob Groves 1:52.658 1:57.828 2:01.868 1:52.658
25 86 joshua garcia 1:54.354 2:03.853 1:56.115 1:54.354 1:55.052
26 38 Josh Price 1:54.554 2:05.244 1:57.641 1:54.554
27 23 Jerry Paladino 1:59.294 2:13.490 2:03.085 1:59.294 2:00.312
28 25 Kevin Webb 1:59.341 1:59.341
29 07 William Groves 2:04.532 2:04.532
30 15 Xavier Anderson 2:06.757 2:12.843 2:06.757
31 420 Bert Withers Jr. --:--:--.---
#26
Another person that might disagree with you is whoever came up with the addage "slow in-fast out".
From all the data I've looked at from SCCA national champions and Grand-Am races exit speed seems to be king.
#27
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,085
Total Cats: 375
I think they are quite a few people that would disagree with you there, take for instance, Skip Barber. His experience is that most beginners gain the most time from exit speed, then mid-corner, then entry and finally by braking distance optimization.
Another person that might disagree with you is whoever came up with the addage "slow in-fast out".
From all the data I've looked at from SCCA national champions and Grand-Am races exit speed seems to be king.
Another person that might disagree with you is whoever came up with the addage "slow in-fast out".
From all the data I've looked at from SCCA national champions and Grand-Am races exit speed seems to be king.
We're going to have a battle when we run HHR, TWS, and Hallett. That's when the SM records will get some gap, I think we were all too green on this track in this direction. I plan to run 8-seconds under SM on my next trip to Hallett...and whip the **** out of the TT class.
#28
I think they are quite a few people that would disagree with you there, take for instance, Skip Barber. His experience is that most beginners gain the most time from exit speed, then mid-corner, then entry and finally by braking distance optimization.
Another person that might disagree with you is whoever came up with the addage "slow in-fast out".
From all the data I've looked at from SCCA national champions and Grand-Am races exit speed seems to be king.
Another person that might disagree with you is whoever came up with the addage "slow in-fast out".
From all the data I've looked at from SCCA national champions and Grand-Am races exit speed seems to be king.
#29
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,085
Total Cats: 375
Think about how much faster you can brake than accelerate. I think all areas need to be honed well, but this is really the most important due to possible speed variances. "Slow in fast out" is a good saying, but there is such a thing as too slow, which is what was happening here. The end result speed may be the same coming into the corner, but you will just be using more braking.
#31
I only posted because I didn't agree with Emilio's "Lap times are not exit speed, they are entry speed" comment. Sure if everyone has the same exit speed then that is true, most of the time that's not the case and it's been proven that every extra rev you can carry out of a corner is worth more than the same incremental increase in entry speed or braking speed.
Obviously there is such thing as too slow in corner entry speed. Obviously the car can decelerate faster than accelerate. What I'm trying to get across is that if you have two comparable driver's in identical cars, the only difference being one driver's braking distance is 10 feet shorter and his entry speed is 2mph faster and the other driver's entry speed is 2mph slower but his exit speed is 2mph faster the driver with the higher exit speed most likely has the lower lap time.
None of this may apply to Hustler at this track because maybe he was going 8-10mph too slow into a certain corner. But when you are talking about top level SM, the Runoffs or Grand AM then it's more applicable.
#35
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,085
Total Cats: 375
Any chance that the suspension was too well set up for left cornering at the cost of right cornering? Sounds Like you were eating guys up in the left turns (keyhole group / carousel) but maybe not quite perfect on the right turns (turn 6 was scary, sugar and spice tore you apart)
#36
I think they are quite a few people that would disagree with you there, take for instance, Skip Barber. His experience is that most beginners gain the most time from exit speed, then mid-corner, then entry and finally by braking distance optimization.
Another person that might disagree with you is whoever came up with the addage "slow in-fast out".
From all the data I've looked at from SCCA national champions and Grand-Am races exit speed seems to be king.
Another person that might disagree with you is whoever came up with the addage "slow in-fast out".
From all the data I've looked at from SCCA national champions and Grand-Am races exit speed seems to be king.
None of us are beginners so that does not apply. If you haven't figured out how to exit a turn and use all the track yet, I'd suggest a good driving school. Like Skippy perhaps.
I can easily obtain maximum exit speed on a 7/10ths out lap while texting someone. Any halfway decent intermediate level driver can do it too.
Threshold braking and having all four tires generating a 2-3° slip angle at turn in OTOH, is something that is quite a bit more difficult. That is the last frontier and what separates the merely good from the best.
Too many intermediates, and a lot of advanced drivers quote the tired "Slow in-fast out" adage. Live by it to the point of avoiding early apexes like the pox. Doesn't make it any more true.
Pretty sure your average Skippy instructor will beat by the greatest margins on corner entries, not corner exits.
You have it backwards. The turns with long straights after are more likely to require a lower minimum entry speed before apex than a turn with no following.
So to the point at hand. Going into a fast turn at 8/10ths because there is no straight afterwards is, where I pass you.
__________________
#37
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,085
Total Cats: 375
I'm not sure what to do with #18 entry. The SM's are hauling *** by entering mid-track, the TT power hitters are entering on the inside curbing...both track out and hit 18 the same way. I'm a little confused, I wish this occured to me during the last session and tried a few different things to see what worked. I still want to see my anger/drift vids from the last session.
#39
You shouldn't have to go four off (if that's what you're getting at) to find the limit / best way through a turn.
Emilio - obviously the fastest of the fast driver's go 10/10ths everywhere on the track all the time. I've shared cars with Michael Galati (best driver I can directly compare my data to) and shared the track with him in similar cars. The guy is flat out from the second he leaves the pit box. Through traffic he's 10/10ths, warm up laps he's 10/10ths, 1.5 hours into a driving stint with a broken car suffering from CO2 poisining in the pouring rain and he's 10/10ths. When looking at his data he's gaining most of the time on me in corner entry and braking. There's no denying that the last 0.5s of lap time to be had are found in those two areas, but the first 2s are from corner exit speed.
I haven't met Hustler so maybe I'm assuming too much but I don't think he's quite to that level yet. All I've been trying to say is that in his situation (trying to learn a new track) he should be more concerned about learning the line and then nailing the exit speeds, then the mid-corner speeds, then entry-speeds, and then finally worrying about reducing his braking distances. I don't think he should be going out one of the first few days he's (or anyone for that matter) at a track and trying to go into every corner at the absolute max corner-entry speed. Your addage of "Lap times are not exit speed, they are entry speed" might make some noob (in no way am I suggesting the Huslter is a noob) concentrate too much on entry speed when he or she is completely blowing every other aspect of going round a corner.
Emilio - obviously the fastest of the fast driver's go 10/10ths everywhere on the track all the time. I've shared cars with Michael Galati (best driver I can directly compare my data to) and shared the track with him in similar cars. The guy is flat out from the second he leaves the pit box. Through traffic he's 10/10ths, warm up laps he's 10/10ths, 1.5 hours into a driving stint with a broken car suffering from CO2 poisining in the pouring rain and he's 10/10ths. When looking at his data he's gaining most of the time on me in corner entry and braking. There's no denying that the last 0.5s of lap time to be had are found in those two areas, but the first 2s are from corner exit speed.
I haven't met Hustler so maybe I'm assuming too much but I don't think he's quite to that level yet. All I've been trying to say is that in his situation (trying to learn a new track) he should be more concerned about learning the line and then nailing the exit speeds, then the mid-corner speeds, then entry-speeds, and then finally worrying about reducing his braking distances. I don't think he should be going out one of the first few days he's (or anyone for that matter) at a track and trying to go into every corner at the absolute max corner-entry speed. Your addage of "Lap times are not exit speed, they are entry speed" might make some noob (in no way am I suggesting the Huslter is a noob) concentrate too much on entry speed when he or she is completely blowing every other aspect of going round a corner.
#40
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,085
Total Cats: 375
I haven't met Hustler so maybe I'm assuming too much but I don't think he's quite to that level yet. All I've been trying to say is that in his situation (trying to learn a new track) he should be more concerned about learning the line and then nailing the exit speeds, then the mid-corner speeds, then entry-speeds, and then finally worrying about reducing his braking distances. I don't think he should be going out one of the first few days he's (or anyone for that matter) at a track and trying to go into every corner at the absolute max corner-entry speed.
At the 3rd and 4th session of the day, I was looking for max entry speed on every corner; I wouldn't be that aggressive if I weren't comfortable doing so and if I weren't locked up on the exit. This is my 4th year of playing with track cars, over 100-hours...if I'm not throwing down a lap on my first day at a new track something is wrong.
I'm not proud of my time, but I'm also not embarrassed. I'll hang my head a little higher at a track I've seen before. All those times that stomped me in TT, most have run that track before or own a membership, all of them showed-up for Friday practice.