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Old 07-28-2008, 09:36 AM   #1
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Default '96 Miata turbo noob!

Just bought a turbo project Miata that has been abandoned by the previous 2 owners. Guy selling said he could never get it started, I brought a friend along to look the car over for a second time, we toyed w/ it, got it to light off w/ the use of starting fluid but wouldn't stay running.

Hoping it's fuel pump or relay, as a lot of the wiring harnesses have been tampered w/ and had other wires spliced/removed.

Honestly, I'm new to the turbo game. My friend who will be helping me w/ the project has a turbo Supra that I've had my hands on a few times turning wrenches, but this is a new world for me.

Essentially all I know about the car at this point is:

1996 Miata w/ salvaged title. 174k
T3/T4 turbo (do not know the trim)
OBX stainless manifold
"custom" hardpipes (exhaust tubing) and FMIC
RFL BOV
GReddy e-manage blue w/ prefab harness (not installed) w/ boost sensor
does not have a boost controller at the moment
claims 305 injectors, but they look to be stock. They are Denso's
Tokico shocks and springs x4
XTD clutch

My buddy is telling me I should go w/ a Profec e01 boost controller so that I won't have to use a laptop to tune, he has the e01 in his turbo Supra. Only thing is, I could probably come up w/ a laptop for less than $50 and I'm guessing a cable would be another $40. That's a lot cheaper than $600 for the e01. Are there cheaper solutions? I've also noticed a lot of chat about rising rate FPR's, would that also be a good addition to this project?

So, hello, and I'm thankful for this site being here, I'm sure you all will be very helpful in getting this car on the road.

Thanks in advance for all the help,

John
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Old 07-28-2008, 10:20 AM   #2
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Get yourself a Chilton's or Haynes manual.

Good luck with the OBX manifold... I hope you can weld.

Why EBC? It looks like you're on a budget... make yourself a brass ball&spring MBC. You're probably only talking about raising the boost a few psi over wastegate, Your T3/T4 isn't going to spool worth a **** anyways, so don't waste the money.

What color are the injectors? Supra 305's are green-top, stock for a '96 are tan-top.

There are quite a few guys who have had success running an AFPR with EMB. There's an emanage forum to ask those specific questions about. No matter what, you're gonna need a wideband for tuning if you want to go that route, or be prepared for several hours on the dyno to get it right. My advice is just stick with the EMB.

If you can manage to get it started, you need to do a leakdown/compression check to see if the engine is healthy. You'll probably also want a new fuel filter and complete fluid change.

Good luck with the project, we're here to help.

And you need to post pics of your car or nudes of girlfriend or no more help.
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Old 07-28-2008, 10:22 AM   #3
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Get yourself a Chilton's or Haynes manual.

Good luck with the OBX manifold... I hope you can weld.

Why EBC? It looks like you're on a budget... make yourself a brass ball&spring MBC or buy one on eBay. I ran a $15 Voodoo for a long time at 14psi like a lot of people around here do. You're probably only talking about raising the boost a few psi over wastegate, Your T3/T4 isn't going to spool worth a **** anyways, so don't waste the money on the few "extra" percent improvement over a simple $15 MBC.

What color are the injectors? Supra 305's are green-top, stock for a '96 are tan-top.

There are quite a few guys who have had success running an AFPR with EMB. There's an emanage forum to ask those specific questions about. No matter what, you're gonna need a wideband for tuning if you want to go that route, or be prepared for several hours on the dyno to get it right. My advice is just stick with the EMB.

If you can manage to get it started, you need to do a leakdown/compression check to see if the engine is healthy. You'll probably also want a new fuel filter and complete fluid change.

Good luck with the project, we're here to help.

And you need to post pics of your car or nudes of girlfriend or no more help.
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Old 07-28-2008, 10:23 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Project84 View Post
My buddy is telling me I should go w/ a Profec e01 boost controller so that I won't have to use a laptop to tune, he has the e01 in his turbo Supra. Only thing is, I could probably come up w/ a laptop for less than $50 and I'm guessing a cable would be another $40. That's a lot cheaper than $600 for the e01. Are there cheaper solutions? I've also noticed a lot of chat about rising rate FPR's, would that also be a good addition to this project?

So spend $600 on an EBC so you don't need a laptop...

what are you gonna use to tune the EMB?
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Old 07-28-2008, 10:27 AM   #5
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Haha, pics of car will come soon... I have a teaser for now....




I forgot to mention, it does have a wideband installed and AF gauge in dash. Car came w/ no A/C which makes it a lot easier to navigate the engine bay.

I might ask that you not use the abbreviated lingo, I'm being honest enough to proclaim my noobness, don't confuse me even more!!

Thanks for the help

Edit: I can weld.... its works out nicely too that my spool is stainless. What are the trouble areas w/ this manifold? Would it be better just to upgrade?

Edit 2: The injectors are tan top... I knew that F**KER WAS LYING!!!
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Old 07-28-2008, 10:48 AM   #6
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EBC = electronic boost controller
EMB = e-manage blue

the OBX manifolds are known to crack
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Old 07-28-2008, 02:35 PM   #7
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any more help here guys?

Are '96 notorious for anything related to fuel problems? What would be the suggested method to go about finishing this project?

laptop or EBC?
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Old 07-28-2008, 04:06 PM   #8
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good luck
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Old 07-28-2008, 05:42 PM   #9
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Is the EMB plugged in using another harness, or is it a total hack job into the factory harness? If you can unplug the EMB and just run the stock ECU, try that. Your car will probably start. I had a really hard time with the EMB on my 96.
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Old 07-28-2008, 06:03 PM   #10
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Guys I think the profec is an EBC and a touchscreen tuning device made specifically for the emanage.

Project84, you have to decide if it's worth the $600...it is a cool toy but you could put that money elsewhere. Do the tuning on a laptop and save that money for build parts.
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Old 07-28-2008, 06:33 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by messiahx View Post
Guys I think the profec is an EBC and a touchscreen tuning device made specifically for the emanage.
Profec-B is a standalone EBC. His friend recommended it because you don't need a laptop to operate/tune it. OP would still need a a laptop to tune with so it's a moot point, really.
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Old 07-28-2008, 10:27 PM   #12
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Yes, my friend tells me you can change timing/fuel maps/etc. all the goodies w/ the Profec e01, but as mentioned, the laptop is cheaper and will probably come in handy at a later time, I'm nearly convinced to take the cheap way out as I'll probably end up on the Auto-x course w/ this car which means, money will be needed for swaybars, shock tower braces, brakes, and race rubber.

Currently the EMB isn't plugged in, and all we could achieve (in 20 minutes of checking stuff w/o tools, just visual) was getting the car to crank... then a spray of starting fluid and we had the car running for 2 or 3 seconds. That was worth it to me just to hear the car run, I bought it 5 seconds later.

The EMB has a "prefab harness" which looks like quality work. The wires are each individually spliced into a harness and the heat shrink tubing is around each one.... guy said he recieved the car w/ the EMB plugged in and pulled it hoping that would solve the problem... but didn't.

I don't hear the fuel pump prime when the key is turned on, so I'm really hoping it's the relay or pump.

My friend (I should really just ask him to join this site and help discuss the car) has Mitchell OnDeman on his PC, we've already printed out schematics for the fuel system. I should have the car within a week or two once I arrange for the towing.

BTW - what will the car do w/ safe boost? 200 at the wheels?

What is considered safe boost, assuming my compression test goes well? 8psi?
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Old 07-28-2008, 11:29 PM   #13
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In order to tune the EMB with a laptop, you need the correct cable to connect the two. It looks like a serial-usb cable but it's not. Join the Yahoo emanage group to download the software and I think there's a guy on there that sells the cables too.
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Old 07-28-2008, 11:44 PM   #14
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The Profec hooks up to the EMB and has it's own screen... access to all EMB functions through the Profec. But $50laptop+$15MBC vs. $600Profec is not even a choice. Spend the leftover $535 on a rollbar and some injectors. Plus, after you've got a good tune and don't need to be messing with fuel/timing/etc(which should take a couple hours of dedicated street time or an hour on the dyno)... then it's just a $600 invitation for somebody to slash your top and walk off with it.

Are you sure it's a wideband... somebody who would lie to you about the injectors would also install a narrowband and tell you otherwise. What brand wideband if it is?

The fuel pump can be jumpered in the diagnostics box in under the hood to test if it's working. Not the fuse box though... there's a small black box on the drivers fender behind the headlight (small, like the size of a laptop mouse only square).

With that turbo/EMB/good tune/big enough injectors... you're quite possibly looking at just over 200whp at 10psi. That would be a good place to start. If the engine is healthy, then 250whp would be a good upper limit to set to maintain reliability... but I don't know how much injector and EMB will run. You need to open a thread in the Emanage forum and ask questions about tuning in there.

The fuel system is a very basic return-style... in-tank pump capable of 80psi and will flow up to 300whp with large enough injectors. Fuel rail is single feed from the front and the stock regulator is on the back of the rail. Fuel lines run down the passenger side of the car. You will want a new fuel filter for piece of mind. Standard upgrade for a stock fuel pump is a Walbro 190lph... or if you need more fuel pressure and are running AFPR, then a 190lphHP.

If you don't know the terms, then use google to help you out... or just ask. You're on the right track here with your questions. We'll get you sorted out quickly.
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Old 07-29-2008, 12:17 PM   #15
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I'm with you this far, sounds good!

It looks like I've got arrangements to have the car towed this Friday/Saturday, which means, lots more pics (assuming I have time to work on it and don't get called into work) and lots more details about what the car might be needing.

Thanks you all very much so far.... this is all great info!
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Old 07-29-2008, 02:28 PM   #16
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So what do the stock injectors flow? My friend w/ the supra turbo says his are 440cc (87 supra turbo) and he said he'd probably trade for my stock injectors to upgrade his Mazda 323 GTX, depending on what the stock '96 Miata injectors size is.

Is a 440cc injector a good upgrade for 10psi applications?
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Old 07-29-2008, 04:29 PM   #17
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440cc should be good for 200whp and should be direct plug and play in your car.
The 96 tantops are rated at 265cc.

If you want to make your life easy, pay me $60 and I'll get you the harness out of my 1996 parts car.

And where are all the nude lady pics???
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Old 07-29-2008, 04:34 PM   #18
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The FAQ, POST#3:
https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4288
Stock injector size 254cc.

YOUR QUESTIONS ABOUT PROPER INJECTOR SIZING AND ALL FUTURE EMANAGE/FUELING/TUNING QUESTIONS SHOULD BE ASKED IN THE EMANAGE FORUM.
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Old 07-29-2008, 08:37 PM   #19
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emb can only handle up to around 330cc if i remember correctly, i have 305cc green tops from a non-turbo supra. stock miata injectors will be smaller than stock 323 gtx injectors
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Old 07-29-2008, 10:41 PM   #20
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Yeah, I just learned that after clicking the above link.. I also learned his 440's would need the addition of the resistors which I'm not wanting to do for the simple fact that, IMO, reliability goes hand in hand w/ the less parts needed to operate, the less parts w/ the possibility of failure.

That being said, I know where two N/A supra's are at local junkyards, also a few late 80's rx7's. Looks like there's a trip back tot he junkyard in store real soon.

SamS, how does your '96 run w/ 9psi? Do you have dyno numbers?
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