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Old 05-26-2013, 01:48 PM   #1
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Default Introduction/mod plan for MSM

Hello everyone, just wanted to introduce myself. My Name is Jason and I just recently picked up a 04 Velocity Red Mazdaspeed Miata. Originally my plan was to grab a NB and boost that, but saw the great deal on the MSM and since my goals are only 210-220 rwhp I snagged up the mazdaspeed for a mere 1K more then the NB would have costed me.

Plans for the car are keep it a street car/DD and go for 210-220 rwhp while keeping the IHI turbo in its effective range, which I'm gathering is 10-12 PSI.

Before this car I had a stroked V-banded GT3071r VW Jetta build that sadly a drunk driver smashed into totaling. So I do have some pieces still from that which I'm gonna transfer over to the MSM such as the intercooler and Forge 007 DV, trying to sell the turbo kit and engine from that car to fund the MSM atm. I have the fueling set up for sale but I may transfer that into the MSM, but still have to do the research on that. Will most likely get the water injection kit up and running on the MSM as well

Plans for the car once it's all paid off are gonna be as followed, in order based on what needs to be done to the car from my research

1. Begi Throttle body pipe w/ 1inch valve provisions - probably doing this asap because of the known failure of the stock part
2. Forge 007P
3. FMIC
4. Intake - Currently the car has a spectre cone filter strapped to the MAF that is banging against the shock tower So short term plan is to add a section of 3" pipe to route it away from that, use the velocity stack and K&N filter I have from the jetta and fab up some sort of air box around that with a Cold air feed.
4. Parallel MS2 install or Revenant PnP MSM MS2 w/WB02 gauge - I am in California but swapping out needed parts for a day or 2 every 2 years isn't a problem. Just trying to find the most economical/bank for your buck solution as I can build a Megasquirt and do the wiring myself if needed.
5. Port turbo wastegate + SGDP + corksport 80mm exhaust
6. Swap out injectors, I have 550cc from the Jetta but not sure if they plug and play with the miata connectors or if they will be larger enough - more research needed at this point

I'm thinking that will get me to my goals quite nicely then I can throw on the water injection for an added buffer area against detonation.

I know there is a belief about ~95% MSM owner being "special" around here. I plan to be an exception from that rule.

As for myself I'm currently working on my second degree for Mechanical Engineering, getting the prelim math and science courses out of the way. First degree was in graphical design, hated the field as graduating, so I decided to go back and work on something I had a true passion for. Did a lot of automotive classes at my local community collage, Saddleback then decided to carry that interest over into ME. So I'm back at Saddleback grinding away the Advanced math and physics courses with plans to transfer to Cal State Fullerton.

Thanks for the read, comments, questions, advice all welcome.
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Old 05-26-2013, 02:59 PM   #2
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Sounds like a great plan. The factory ECU is the biggest difference you can make because its so retarded.
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Old 05-26-2013, 06:28 PM   #3
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So i had time to look at the P.O. "intake set up" aka shove a cone filter on the MAF for cool sounds and yeah its got a few problems I would like to address Immediately as Im not a huge fan of it...

Here's 2 pictures of the set up



For what it's worth there is a silicone coupler on the MAF that the filter is "clamped" to, no pipe joiner nothing just 2 pieces of silicone "clamped" to each other and the filter wedged in there, unfornately the dealer I purchased the car from does not have the stock airbox for me to replace this with atm.

Also this sensor, which I believe in an air intake sensor is just kinda laying around in the engine bay right next to the hot side pipping, I moved it to the cold air feed location and zip tied it up so it's not banging around for now but I'm assuming this is suppose to be in the air stream of the intake pipe, pre MAF, to take air temp readings...



The velocity stack I have doesn't look like its gonna fit under the hood while the MAF is still in so I've kinda ditched that idea, for reference I have a BPI flowstack which is around 7" circumference, at quick glance couldn't find a place to put it where the MAF would also be happy.

If more photos are needed be glad to take some after work, any ideas on how to get this to a more functional, at least up to par with a stock airbox set up? If anything I at least am gonna get a small piece of pipe and get that air temp sensor back in the intake air flow. My fabrication skills are moderate but I have some great fabrication friends that can help me out. Have access to Welder and a good set of machine shop tool if needed.
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Introduction/mod plan for MSM-429888_10200686778147296_854542326_n.jpg   Introduction/mod plan for MSM-431057_10200686775507230_156722333_n.jpg   Introduction/mod plan for MSM-574501_10200686776547256_1252553981_n.jpg  
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Old 05-26-2013, 06:33 PM   #4
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Thats an awesome intake! lol

Welcome! I'd be weary of the sgdp from begi. It's known to just generally be terrible and pointless on our little stock turbos. You'll easily be able to make 210-220 hp on the cheaper fm dp or even an ebay one.

I've never heard of anyone actually being able to run our stock ecu parallel with a ms. That would be awesome if you can figure it out.
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Old 05-26-2013, 06:42 PM   #5
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thats that Jaydee-em tyteness intake..... MAD HP attained from its use.

and.. i read through, but didnt see it mentioned... maybe i read too fast as i am here at work... but, what suspension is on there??? i see the knobby-**** by your intake
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Old 05-26-2013, 08:56 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supercooper View Post
thats that Jaydee-em tyteness intake..... MAD HP attained from its use.

and.. i read through, but didnt see it mentioned... maybe i read too fast as i am here at work... but, what suspension is on there??? i see the knobby-**** by your intake
looks like megan...
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Old 05-26-2013, 09:01 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazduh View Post
looks like megan...
Always hear mixed reviews on megan products... are these any good??
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Old 05-26-2013, 09:04 PM   #8
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Im not 100% positive but from the black spring, blue coilover pairing and the 16 clicks of adjust-ability I'm pushing towards the Megan Racing EZ streets. The only thing is the **** has a little shield on it instead of saying "Megan" like it does in the pictures I have seen of Megans. Coilovers were on the car when I got them, dealer though they were stock so I didn't mention them.

Side note, was super slow at work so I decided to go home clean up, regrease and swap in my Forge 007P DV I had from my Jetta. I believe my stock one was leaking because it pulls a bit harder to redline now, but I have no boost gauge, either way the forge has never failed me.

As for the sgdp, I was thinking of just getting a regular 3" downpipe and possibly not have to port the wastegate channel. Really rather not deal with boost creep with the gains from the sgdp aren't worth the effort on the stock turbo.
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Old 05-26-2013, 09:44 PM   #9
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Do some reading. Even some regular style down pipes can cause creep issues.
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Old 05-26-2013, 09:44 PM   #10
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I have the FM downpipe and exhaust on my 04 MSM. It works great. Typical dyno results for the mods that I have (FM intake, downpipe, exhaust) is already 200 whp before its even tuned.

However, I would recommend you look up JoeMazda585 on mazda-speed.com and get one of his custom intakes. They are worlds better than the FM intake. His intake, a replacement intercooler, and the FM downpipe and whatever exhaust will easily hit 200 whp. Tune it properly with a Reverant MS2E that PLUGS in and you will have your 210-220 whp no problem. You might need injectors at that point. The stock clutch should also hold that power, unless its been abused or has a ton of miles.
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Old 05-27-2013, 12:04 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCxMagus View Post
:
1. Begi Throttle body pipe w/ 1inch valve provisions - probably doing this asap because of the known failure of the stock part
2. Forge 007P
3. FMIC
4. Intake - Currently the car has a spectre cone filter strapped to the MAF that is banging against the shock tower So short term plan is to add a section of 3" pipe to route it away from that, use the velocity stack and K&N filter I have from the jetta and fab up some sort of air box around that with a Cold air feed.
4. Parallel MS2 install or Revenant PnP MSM MS2 w/WB02 gauge - I am in California but swapping out needed parts for a day or 2 every 2 years isn't a problem. Just trying to find the most economical/bank for your buck solution as I can build a Megasquirt and do the wiring myself if needed.
5. Port turbo wastegate + SGDP + corksport 80mm exhaust
6. Swap out injectors, I have 550cc from the Jetta but not sure if they plug and play with the miata connectors or if they will be larger enough - more research needed at this point
:
First thing you should do is upgrade to an AEM CAI or Joe's intake or the BEGi intake and get a MBC along with a boost gauge so that you're NOT overboosting. I'm not a fan of the FM air filter location. This will give you your best bang-for-buck, approximately 135rwkw.

Aftermarket BOV should be next, the factory one is crap.

The stock rubber throttle body elbow should be fine at these levels if you keep your boost < 10psi, it's really only around 200rwhp that it starts "blowing off".

If you're OK with 200rwhp, settle on a 2.5" exhaust next, if not, get a 3" exhaust - this will give you room to grow.

With these 2 mods at ~ 9.0psi, you should have ~145rwkw with few driving issues.

When you decide to increase boost from this point is when the problems start, you'll need larger injectors to overcome running lean and an aftermarket ECU to smooth it out again.

The intercooler is NOT a power mod but does need to be upgraded if you experience heatsoak, which WILL occur on the track. For DD this shouldn't be an issue.



Also, if you still have the 17" Racing Hart anchors, I strongly suggest you upgrade these to 15" rims ASAP, they ride and handle much better than the 17" rims - I really want to kick the guy in the nuts that decided to put 17" rims on the MSM.

Also, that sensor you pointed out above IS the air intake sensor. The MSM has two of these, there's another one attached to the throttle body elbow - this is the sensor actually used by the ECU, not the air intake sensor.
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Old 05-27-2013, 01:24 AM   #12
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Yeah I was looking into the Joe intake, whats the general consensus of the MAF relocation kit he provides? I'm gonna be researching what I can tonight about it, saw a few dynos where the power seemed to be smoother but the AFR problem didn't really seem to be fixed
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Old 05-27-2013, 04:54 AM   #13
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You dont need a MAF relocation if youre going to run an MS.
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Old 05-27-2013, 04:59 AM   #14
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Oh I know but unless I can find a build it yourself solution for the MSM for MS I wont have the funds for a reverent plug and play for quite a while.
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Old 05-27-2013, 05:29 AM   #15
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DCxMagus, congrats on signing up at the best site on the web!
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Old 05-27-2013, 01:24 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCxMagus View Post
Oh I know but unless I can find a build it yourself solution for the MSM for MS I wont have the funds for a reverent plug and play for quite a while.
I was able to get my ms2e with pnp harness and ebc from reverent for $850 shipped. You will need bigger injectors, at least 550s for the ms. Just an fyi.
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Old 05-27-2013, 01:32 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCxMagus View Post
Yeah I was looking into the Joe intake, whats the general consensus of the MAF relocation kit he provides? I'm gonna be researching what I can tonight about it, saw a few dynos where the power seemed to be smoother but the AFR problem didn't really seem to be fixed
This is the setup him and I were able to build with my ms. I basically replaced the entire hotside ic piping and used the FM mafless intake piece. The maf currently resides on the cold side of the ic pipe. When I have the ms installed all I do is remove the maf and replace it with a pipe with my iat bung welded onto it for the ms. Pretty simple, this way i can go back and forth for emissions easily.





The lean issue is still going to be there even if you relocate the maf. Though it's not as noticeable. There's really nothing you can do about it till you get rid of our stock ecu.
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Old 05-27-2013, 11:14 PM   #18
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Yeah once I get "accepted" over at mazda-speed.com I'm gonna talk with Joe and plan out a kit for myself. From the Picture he has on his ad post I believe I would be able to utilize my Flowstack in that location, the question is if I'm able to find a big enough pod to enclose it to protect it from the hot engine bay.

But plan to basically do what your doing, get the relocation kit throw on the intake and kit, fit my intercooler and start being responsible and paying down my loan. Once that is done with I can spring for the MS2 and exhaust/downpipe and achieve my goals =).

I will be honest though, now that the forge is in and my stock valve which was leaking is gone the car is quite fast and relatively smooth. There is still the big kick once i get to open loop and I know the car has plenty of power under the curve to be released once the stock ECU is out of the picture and a proper tune is done, but I can live with it for now.

I am hoping my intercooler fits though, its a bit larger then what is sold in the kits I see for the MSM so it might take a bit of cutting to install, the core is 24x8x3" so it's gonna take some work =)
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Old 05-28-2013, 01:22 AM   #19
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Dis guy. About time you got one of these things after playing around with RJ's for a while.
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Old 05-28-2013, 04:59 PM   #20
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Haha Yeah Chris I couldn't resist just makes too much sense! Then I saw the MSM for only 1K more then the other 99's I was looking at and being the boost addict I am I was sold!
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