Louisville area 90 Miata
01-09-2019, 01:30 AM
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Louisville area 90 Miata
Hello everyone. My name is Eric, I am 37, I live just north of Louisville, KY, and I am building a 1990 Miata. I got the car from a friend after he was in a wreck about 10 years ago and it has been sitting ever since. It has the stock engine, 5-speed, red exterior, black soft top, and all the options except remote entry. It was wrecked bad enough to have damage on every body panel, drivers side control arms, sway bar was ripped off, and front rim was destroyed. I have a build in mind, and I originally had it revolving around the 1.6 it currently has (boring it out, using forged internals and high performance bearings, doing some head work and using stage 2 cams, and making it E-85 fuel with a small turbo. I was going to use the 2554 or 2560, but Garret sales guy suggested a 2854 or 2860 to get more power since I am using an 11:1 compression with the E-85 setup (E-85 does great under very high compression and tons of boost, my build is actually very mild compared to others I have seen). I do have questions about what exactly I should do head wise, as I have heard that opening the head too much can cause valve float and ruin an engine. I also know that resistance causes less pressure and more heat, which are also bad. So I want to know where the happy middle is. I posted in another area about cooling the turbo for both the coolant side and the oil side. Cooler fluids work better, as long as they are still at operating temps, correct? I also have questions about the MS2 vs MS3 on a non-VVT engine... is there a real difference, or just an additional $400 or so wasted on an additional connector or slightly better graph I may not even use or need? I plan on spending around $12K on this build, and a little more replacing body panels and painting it. I also plan on doing all work myself (this is not my first rebuild of a car, I know the time and energy that goes into it... it will be a 2 year project, maybe slightly longer) and if I can find good used parts, I can save some money here and there. This will be a weekend you, not a DD, so it does not have to be an easy driver type car. Super heavy clutch, long warm up/cool down time, and not exactly 100% street legal is ok. No emissions where I live, so I have no real restrictions on my build either. I have not built a turbo car before, so that is new territory. I have done a lot with both V-8s and I-4s, and I have broken engines down to bare blocks and rebuilt them in both stock and custom build styles, so I am confident in my skills. If anyone has any tips or tricks for me, I am happy to listen. Thank you for any help you may give me in advance.
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01-09-2019, 06:48 AM
#2
In your mx5 thread, I wrote for you, the exact parts list (major items) to reach your power goal. You never responded though.
what did you think?
Did you read it?
Did you consider it?
why are you looking at a Garrett and not the EFR, like I suggested?
most importantly , why are you still bent on building a 1.6? We need to hear a logical answer. Hint, there isn't one.
now for the spoon- You need ms3x minimum if you want to run E85, pro would be best . If you are worried about wasting 400 bucks, then a built engine turbo isn't a good choice. It will be a money pit for a little while. From what we see, about 50% of engines built by knowledgeable enthusiasts, dont make it past 1k miles. You ok with a full rebuild a week after you install the first engine?
Dont do anything strange with coolant. Just use a 30/70 mix of standard coolant.
PS, break up your text into paragraphs, its really hard to read a wall of words like that. Put in some effort if you want the help, please.
what did you think?
Did you read it?
Did you consider it?
why are you looking at a Garrett and not the EFR, like I suggested?
most importantly , why are you still bent on building a 1.6? We need to hear a logical answer. Hint, there isn't one.
now for the spoon- You need ms3x minimum if you want to run E85, pro would be best . If you are worried about wasting 400 bucks, then a built engine turbo isn't a good choice. It will be a money pit for a little while. From what we see, about 50% of engines built by knowledgeable enthusiasts, dont make it past 1k miles. You ok with a full rebuild a week after you install the first engine?
Dont do anything strange with coolant. Just use a 30/70 mix of standard coolant.
PS, break up your text into paragraphs, its really hard to read a wall of words like that. Put in some effort if you want the help, please.
Last edited by ryansmoneypit; 01-09-2019 at 07:58 AM.
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01-09-2019, 08:44 AM
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I still fail to understand why do people insist on starting their $10k+ builds on the most junk yard worthy chassis??
especially when clean cars can be easily picked up for $1k with non running engines, but mint bodies.
last year alone, I scored 4 miatas for $800-1500 with mint bodies and non running. Two had rod knock and others needed timing belts of sensors replaced to run.
since rebuilding anyway, none of this matters.
and dont build a 1.6, waste of money. Get a 1.8, it will be better in every way.
with a 1.6 chassis, you are already starting 1k in the hole, since you must upgrade the rear diff to a 1.8 torsen, along with axles and driveshaft.
complete 1.8 cars can be bought for this much.
especially when clean cars can be easily picked up for $1k with non running engines, but mint bodies.
last year alone, I scored 4 miatas for $800-1500 with mint bodies and non running. Two had rod knock and others needed timing belts of sensors replaced to run.
since rebuilding anyway, none of this matters.
and dont build a 1.6, waste of money. Get a 1.8, it will be better in every way.
with a 1.6 chassis, you are already starting 1k in the hole, since you must upgrade the rear diff to a 1.8 torsen, along with axles and driveshaft.
complete 1.8 cars can be bought for this much.
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01-09-2019, 10:57 AM
#4
I still fail to understand why do people insist on starting their $10k+ builds on the most junk yard worthy chassis??
especially when clean cars can be easily picked up for $1k with non running engines, but mint bodies.
last year alone, I scored 4 miatas for $800-1500 with mint bodies and non running. Two had rod knock and others needed timing belts of sensors replaced to run.
since rebuilding anyway, none of this matters.
and dont build a 1.6, waste of money. Get a 1.8, it will be better in every way.
with a 1.6 chassis, you are already starting 1k in the hole, since you must upgrade the rear diff to a 1.8 torsen, along with axles and driveshaft.
complete 1.8 cars can be bought for this much.
especially when clean cars can be easily picked up for $1k with non running engines, but mint bodies.
last year alone, I scored 4 miatas for $800-1500 with mint bodies and non running. Two had rod knock and others needed timing belts of sensors replaced to run.
since rebuilding anyway, none of this matters.
and dont build a 1.6, waste of money. Get a 1.8, it will be better in every way.
with a 1.6 chassis, you are already starting 1k in the hole, since you must upgrade the rear diff to a 1.8 torsen, along with axles and driveshaft.
complete 1.8 cars can be bought for this much.
THIS. and you still have little brakes on the 1.6 chassis. Upgrade to sport brakes for about 500 all said and done. So a $1500 deficit right off the bat.
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01-09-2019, 02:52 PM
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The build list looks pretty good... except I want to go a little bigger with compression. It sounds like I wasted my time getting this 90 that I got... it cost me no money initially, but I do owe some work for it. And from everything I have heard from pretty much everyone, I just need to dive in and pick up a 1.8 engine, if not the entire car.
Even if I got a 1.8 car, I would still be upgrading brakes, tires, lines, and everything else, except the rear end if I found the right rear end. And the 6-speed is something I am not sure I want to gamble on either, since the BMW transmission fits on with the adaptor Kit now.
I was was only going with garret because I can find tons of info and dealers out there for these turbos. I have not been in the turbo scene before, and EFR is not a name I recognize. As for the MS3, if that is what I need to run E85, then thats fine. If the MSPro is what I need, thats fine too. I just didnt want to buy the part that was more expensive for no reason than it was newer or had a cooler name. I dont want to turn my new build into a pretty junk yard ornament... at least not because of something like the wrong EMU.
I will Ill check my area for part outs again once I have some money on hand to spend on the car... I have 5 kids and Christmas was pretty good this year for them. I also have other things going on at this moment, but it should all settle down soon enough. I really need to break down the car I already have anyways.
Even if I got a 1.8 car, I would still be upgrading brakes, tires, lines, and everything else, except the rear end if I found the right rear end. And the 6-speed is something I am not sure I want to gamble on either, since the BMW transmission fits on with the adaptor Kit now.
I was was only going with garret because I can find tons of info and dealers out there for these turbos. I have not been in the turbo scene before, and EFR is not a name I recognize. As for the MS3, if that is what I need to run E85, then thats fine. If the MSPro is what I need, thats fine too. I just didnt want to buy the part that was more expensive for no reason than it was newer or had a cooler name. I dont want to turn my new build into a pretty junk yard ornament... at least not because of something like the wrong EMU.
I will Ill check my area for part outs again once I have some money on hand to spend on the car... I have 5 kids and Christmas was pretty good this year for them. I also have other things going on at this moment, but it should all settle down soon enough. I really need to break down the car I already have anyways.
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01-09-2019, 03:31 PM
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Hey Eric...
I'm local to you, just up 65 in Underwood, I work in Louisville. I have a 96 (1.8 w/ a torsen) I've been AutoX'ing with and recently a Time Attack event. I am midway through my turbo build, I have the car still running NA with a MS DIYPNP & FlowForce injectors. Just installed a FM Happy Meal Stage I clutch/flywheel. I picked up a used Garrett T25G, doing a rebuild on it this weekend, looking to purchase a Kraken manifold & DP in the next few weeks... Hoping to have it running on boost by end of march.
Buzz me if you get any interest in the local AutoX, Quite a few around with miata's in various flavors.
I'm local to you, just up 65 in Underwood, I work in Louisville. I have a 96 (1.8 w/ a torsen) I've been AutoX'ing with and recently a Time Attack event. I am midway through my turbo build, I have the car still running NA with a MS DIYPNP & FlowForce injectors. Just installed a FM Happy Meal Stage I clutch/flywheel. I picked up a used Garrett T25G, doing a rebuild on it this weekend, looking to purchase a Kraken manifold & DP in the next few weeks... Hoping to have it running on boost by end of march.
Buzz me if you get any interest in the local AutoX, Quite a few around with miata's in various flavors.
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01-09-2019, 03:43 PM
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Will do Yankee. It would be nice to physically see what people have done so I have a better idea of the little things I should do to make the car nicer either in performance or looks. I watched a guy do a wire tuck and saw some stuff I would have done a little different, but maybe it is not possible... I will find out when I try and do mine I guess.
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01-09-2019, 04:08 PM
#9
wire tuck- what, why? you like impossible diagnostic work?
e85, hi compression - why? 300 tq is easy to crack on low comp and 15 psi from a Borg Warner EFR 6258.
bmw trans....$5K , a 6 speed works fine on the street and auto cross.
you need to decide what you are going to do with this car in the end. Come to terms with the fact that you are a father of 5. You arent going to be track racing. I would be surprised if you made it to a track event even once a year. some serious cost associated with a track day. You tsking 5 kids and the wife to the track, or is the wife going to let you dissapear to play with cars for a weekend at a time? Really, and I mean really consider what you are going to do with this car. It will make goals much more realistic. To be totally honest, you have these huge, big, beatifull plans, but you bought a 1.6 chassis and have now realized it was the wrong choice. How many other things on this wish list might also be incorrect?
5 kids, so one is probably close to 10 now. you got about 8 years before you fork out for college. Then it wont end for many years. I dont see a 12k build as practical at this point. but who the hell am I to say.
e85, hi compression - why? 300 tq is easy to crack on low comp and 15 psi from a Borg Warner EFR 6258.
bmw trans....$5K , a 6 speed works fine on the street and auto cross.
you need to decide what you are going to do with this car in the end. Come to terms with the fact that you are a father of 5. You arent going to be track racing. I would be surprised if you made it to a track event even once a year. some serious cost associated with a track day. You tsking 5 kids and the wife to the track, or is the wife going to let you dissapear to play with cars for a weekend at a time? Really, and I mean really consider what you are going to do with this car. It will make goals much more realistic. To be totally honest, you have these huge, big, beatifull plans, but you bought a 1.6 chassis and have now realized it was the wrong choice. How many other things on this wish list might also be incorrect?
5 kids, so one is probably close to 10 now. you got about 8 years before you fork out for college. Then it wont end for many years. I dont see a 12k build as practical at this point. but who the hell am I to say.
Last edited by ryansmoneypit; 01-09-2019 at 05:09 PM.
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01-09-2019, 04:32 PM
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I'm going to advise you to cool your jets and read and study quite a bit more. Not saying that to be mean but rather to be as helpful as I possibly can. There are many things you are prepared to spend money on that are not the correct part or don't work well together. For instance 2554 and 2560 and 2854 turbos you mentioned don't even make enough horsepower to need a BMW transmission, even moreso stuck on a poorly breathing, smaller displacement 1.6 engine.
Additional things worth noting that are often glossed over are the 1.6 has no variable throttle position sensor, has a significantly smaller fuel tank, has less chassis bracing, different front sway bar mounting location, and dozens of other important things that were upgraded on later cars.
Additional things worth noting that are often glossed over are the 1.6 has no variable throttle position sensor, has a significantly smaller fuel tank, has less chassis bracing, different front sway bar mounting location, and dozens of other important things that were upgraded on later cars.
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01-09-2019, 06:11 PM
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My kids are all set for college, and the oldest is 14 years old, youngest is 2. Not worried about that one bit. Its completely covered. I am fine with spending about $12K on the build. I got the car for free, in monetary terms. I have to help build a bathroom in a basement this spring. Not a big deal there.
This car is meant to be a fun toy. Spending a weekend every few weeks out doing car stuff is no big problem. I spend a lot of time working, and the car stuff is something my kids enjoy helping me with, so it is good bonding time.
I appreciate the concerns about the money and costs and work needed, but I enjoy the work, and I can always make more money. In the end it comes down to Am I happy with what I have? and I dont want to play the guessing game about what if I had a newer car further along with some of the parts already installed? I actually just got a new position where I build control panels for machines, so the wiring part is not a big worry. I have an A.S. in Enginerring Technology, because I enjoy working with machines and cars and electronics.
I will Ill ask questions as they come up, probably mostly about the turbocharging side of things. I am always open to suggestions and tips, and I will always look at both sides of each option or suggestion to see if it makes sense for what I want. I want a car that is high HP and fun to drive. I have two minivans to haul all my kids around, so I am not worried about it being a driveable car. Its just my toy.
This car is meant to be a fun toy. Spending a weekend every few weeks out doing car stuff is no big problem. I spend a lot of time working, and the car stuff is something my kids enjoy helping me with, so it is good bonding time.
I appreciate the concerns about the money and costs and work needed, but I enjoy the work, and I can always make more money. In the end it comes down to Am I happy with what I have? and I dont want to play the guessing game about what if I had a newer car further along with some of the parts already installed? I actually just got a new position where I build control panels for machines, so the wiring part is not a big worry. I have an A.S. in Enginerring Technology, because I enjoy working with machines and cars and electronics.
I will Ill ask questions as they come up, probably mostly about the turbocharging side of things. I am always open to suggestions and tips, and I will always look at both sides of each option or suggestion to see if it makes sense for what I want. I want a car that is high HP and fun to drive. I have two minivans to haul all my kids around, so I am not worried about it being a driveable car. Its just my toy.
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01-10-2019, 07:06 AM
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My step-dad built some pretty sweet muscle cars when I was growing up, and I only ever got to drive one of them ever. I rode in all of them at one time or another, and some were just scary to be in. But I know that a controlled environment is best to play around in, so that it is not as much of a temptation when you shouldnt do it. I learned and teach my kids gun control and handling the same way. They get to touch it and handle it in front of me in a controlled environment every few months. They can ask any questions and no judgement is held for that period of time. And none of my kids ever touch my gun or anyone elses guns any other time.
I still want a high HP car for the time I drive it though. I am researching other turbos and builds all the time. There are a lot of 1.8s with some strange turbos on them. Lots of eBay stuff. I think the 6-speed may be the way to go with the transmission though. The BMWs dont have speedo connectors... that is a problem for the area I live in. Lots of speed traps here. I will rebuild whichever one I get just to be on the safe(r) side.
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01-10-2019, 08:54 AM
#14
Borg Warner EFR 6258 with an MegaSquirt pro with the Electronic Boost Control enabled, will allow you to instantly go from a very low boost (7psi?) all the way up to mid 20's. No need to switch turbos for other drivers.
Start building a Traffic Court Fund now, if you have a lot of speed traps.. with that recipee I wrote you on MX5, 6th gear goes from 45 to 80 mph in just a couple seconds.
Start building a Traffic Court Fund now, if you have a lot of speed traps.. with that recipee I wrote you on MX5, 6th gear goes from 45 to 80 mph in just a couple seconds.
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01-11-2019, 03:59 AM
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There are places the cops allow you to go fast around here. We have some abandoned factories out by some country roads, there is a small airport not too far away that is never occupied, and if you find a good back road near the farm areas, no one says anything. That being said, I do like accelerating quickly then going very near the speed limit. I also love making cars handle great.
Last time one I was speeding, I got caught doing 114 in a 55. Yes, all in MPH. I had just come back from my 2nd tour in Iraq and I was visiting some family and friends. I was pulled over and talked to for over an hour. I was let go with a very strict warning that ANY other violation would result in me walking everywhere for the next 5 years. Now I keep the speeding to empty lots and lonely roads when I am alone.
I have ave been great with my last 2 toys to keep the speeds reasonable while still making some better than average power. But again, this is my first turbo. I am sure I will want to change all sorts of stuff after I am finished. Hopefully I wont need the speeding ticket fund, but it may be wise to build one up.
Last time one I was speeding, I got caught doing 114 in a 55. Yes, all in MPH. I had just come back from my 2nd tour in Iraq and I was visiting some family and friends. I was pulled over and talked to for over an hour. I was let go with a very strict warning that ANY other violation would result in me walking everywhere for the next 5 years. Now I keep the speeding to empty lots and lonely roads when I am alone.
I have ave been great with my last 2 toys to keep the speeds reasonable while still making some better than average power. But again, this is my first turbo. I am sure I will want to change all sorts of stuff after I am finished. Hopefully I wont need the speeding ticket fund, but it may be wise to build one up.
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