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Old 05-14-2013, 05:54 AM   #1
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Default New MSM Owner

Hello all, my name is Brendan and I bought my first Miata a couple months ago. Its a ridiculously mint 04 silver MSM with 37k on the clock. The last owner averaged about 5k per year and he owned if for 5 years.
I hope to learn to drive well and enjoy life with it. My previous experience is in front wheel drive cars. I've done about 12 HPDE or other track days with my 05 Focus ST. (Coilovers, full bolt ons, clutch, flywheel, Quaife, 4.06 FDR, NT-01s) It was fun learning in the car and visiting tracks around AZ and CA but I feel like I'm not a real enthusiast until I have similar skill levels with rwd cars.

I'll have to upload some pictures to photobucket and get them here to show you...what you already know. A stock Miata.

I already bent one wheel when a slick new piece of on ramp got the best of me. (Such a noob right now) To replace them I bought my dream wheels, Enkei RPF1's. Went down to a 16x7 because the 17s don't make as much sense to me.

I also have a Sparco Evo 2 on the way along with side mounts and an AWR seat bracket/mount/whatever. I'm 6'5" so this is something I really look forward to installing.

Thus far I love the car. It's light, responsive, well built, and feels fast to me! In the long term plans are the FM full intake kit and larger intercooler probably. The next thing on my list is probably a Hard Dog Hardcore roll bar so I can pass tech inspections and spend a little time on track.

This forum seems fun and informative so I may just have to stick around.
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Old 05-14-2013, 09:53 AM   #2
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Welcome. There is a lot of good information here.
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Old 05-14-2013, 10:10 AM   #3
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I've never driven an MSM, but I hear the ECU is awful. I don't remember exactly but I think the ECU stays in open-loop until 5000rpm (aka afr is held at 14.7). But you are well into boost by 5000rpm, so it runs super lean until then, and then you get 1500rpm of good operation until you hit the rev limiter.

Intake and intercooler are good, but I think the best performance-per-dollar mod you can do is a Megasquirt.
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Old 05-14-2013, 10:38 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by thenuge26 View Post
I've never driven an MSM, but I hear the ECU is awful. I don't remember exactly but I think the ECU stays in open-loop until 5000rpm (aka afr is held at 14.7). But you are well into boost by 5000rpm, so it runs super lean until then, and then you get 1500rpm of good operation until you hit the rev limiter.

Intake and intercooler are good, but I think the best performance-per-dollar mod you can do is a Megasquirt.
What he said about the ECU.

But the best bang for the buck is (in almost this order), Intake, Exhaust, IC, (basically the Flying Miata Little Enchilada) then ECU with injectors. The first 3 mods will net you the biggest gain for about $1200 investment. After you do these, it will feel like a whole new car.
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Old 05-14-2013, 09:35 PM   #5
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Welcome, Tallguyboost!
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Old 05-14-2013, 09:55 PM   #6
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MSM owner here. FM intake kit is AIDS. Sign up at mazdaspeed.com and find Joe585 or something like that. He makes intake kits that are way better. I have the FM downpipe and exhaust and I like them. Reverent has a sale on a MS2E ecu right now for $700. Fix the ecu before you start hating the car like I do.
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Old 05-16-2013, 11:04 AM   #7
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badass! welcome! WE WANT PIC!!! lol
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Old 05-16-2013, 11:07 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilicharger665 View Post
MSM owner here. FM intake kit is AIDS. Sign up at mazdaspeed.com and find Joe585 or something like that. He makes intake kits that are way better. I have the FM downpipe and exhaust and I like them. Reverent has a sale on a MS2E ecu right now for $700. Fix the ecu before you start hating the car like I do.
This.

JoeMazda585. I have the intake kit he makes and it is very nice and cheaper then the FM equivalent. The Megasquirt will be the best mod you ever do. I would have done it first if I had know how much better the car would drive.
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Old 05-16-2013, 11:09 AM   #9
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Contact me for a proper, affordable ECU. All the MSM owners love to tell me how much they hate their stock ECU.
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Old 05-16-2013, 05:22 PM   #10
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Contact me for a proper, affordable ECU. All the MSM owners love to tell me how much they hate their stock ECU.
This....


and what everyone else said.
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Old 05-16-2013, 07:35 PM   #11
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Thanks for the responses everyone! To be clear, my goal isn't really to increase power ma lot but to just enjoy the car and have a modest gain as long as its supremely reliable.

Does an ecu change adjust the afr in such a way to increase power AND actually create a safer running condition since stock is apparently so lean?
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Old 05-16-2013, 07:39 PM   #12
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Not only will an ecu provide safe afr's and increase power it will completely change the entire mid range. The car will be much more enjoyable to drive. The stock computer is terrible and chokes the car from 3k to 5k.
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Old 05-16-2013, 08:31 PM   #13
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Forgive me for any potential ignorance but an ecu change is in essence a remap. The harware isn't at fault, its the software programming? So the ecu swap is only as good as the tuner who adds the custom programming.

Also doesn't a standalone remove any factory settings that Mazda built in? This would mean that all the little fine tuning and driveability work is lost until someone goes through all that work to replace it.

That's just a huge task for a car with such a tiny production run.

Sorry for being the devils advocate here.
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Old 05-16-2013, 08:33 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Tallguyboost View Post
Forgive me for any potential ignorance but an ecu change is in essence a remap. The harware isn't at fault, its the software programming? So the ecu swap is only as good as the tuner who adds the custom programming.

Also doesn't a standalone remove any factory settings that Mazda built in? This would mean that all the little fine tuning and driveability work is lost until someone goes through all that work to replace it.

That's just a huge task for a car with such a tiny production run.

Sorry for being the devils advocate here.
Yes.

There's no fine tuning. The MSM ecu does not really learn or adapt. It's just ****. You could always opt for the Begi reflash, but that'll cost you the same of what running a standalone would and begi is getting sort of a bad reputation with their reflash on the mazda-speed.com forum.
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Old 05-16-2013, 08:36 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by thenuge26 View Post
I've never driven an MSM, but I hear the ECU is awful. I don't remember exactly but I think the ECU stays in open-loop until 5000rpm (aka afr is held at 14.7). But you are well into boost by 5000rpm, so it runs super lean until then, and then you get 1500rpm of good operation until you hit the rev limiter.

Intake and intercooler are good, but I think the best performance-per-dollar mod you can do is a Megasquirt.
Ah is that what open v. closed loop is? So it stays at stoich even under WOT below 5k?? Thats crazytown. My focus is nearer to 11.
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Old 05-16-2013, 08:42 PM   #16
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Ah is that what open v. closed loop is? So it stays at stoich even under WOT below 5k?? Thats crazytown. My focus is nearer to 11.
My msm has pretty much every bolt on you can do to it with the stock turbo and 305cc injectors and I regularly see 12.4 afr at wot. Due to the lean spot it spikes 15-16 if I mash the throttle mid gear. I'm genuinely surprised every day this car hasnt blown up. (still on stock ecu, waiting on injectors to arrive so I can install my ms)
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Old 05-16-2013, 09:02 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallguyboost View Post
Forgive me for any potential ignorance but an ecu change is in essence a remap. The harware isn't at fault, its the software programming? So the ecu swap is only as good as the tuner who adds the custom programming.

Also doesn't a standalone remove any factory settings that Mazda built in? This would mean that all the little fine tuning and driveability work is lost until someone goes through all that work to replace it.

That's just a huge task for a car with such a tiny production run.

Sorry for being the devils advocate here.
Not sure if troll? The MSM has NO fine tuning or driveability work, thats the whole problem.

I've heard of some MSM's working way better than others so maybe you got a good one because I have never, at any point, considered my MSM driveable or fine tuned. BUY ECU NAO!
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Old 05-16-2013, 09:12 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Mazduh View Post
My msm has pretty much every bolt on you can do to it with the stock turbo and 305cc injectors and I regularly see 12.4 afr at wot. Due to the lean spot it spikes 15-16 if I mash the throttle mid gear. I'm genuinely surprised every day this car hasnt blown up. (still on stock ecu, waiting on injectors to arrive so I can install my ms)
Holy poop that is lean. You're driving on borrowed time. So is it typical to change injectors and fuel pump when you swap the ecu? Asking the fuel system to do more without helping it do so sounds tricky.
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Old 05-16-2013, 10:25 PM   #19
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sounds like you know about as much about these cars as my dog.

I say this not to be mean, but to warn you because people don't like stupid questions around here and will become hostile very quickly.

I suggest you start reading. There is enough info in here about turbocharging and your car that you could be gaining knowledge for months non-stop, and then know just about everything there is to know about your car afterwards.

Read read read, familiarize yourself with your car, then ask intelligent questions and we'll be glad to answer them.
Asking us what the difference is between your crappy OEM MSM ecu and a full on standalone engine management system you're gonna have a bad time.

Good luck
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Old 05-16-2013, 10:44 PM   #20
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Well I've never heard of any car ever with ecu issues like this one so its unfamiliar ground. And to be fair, this is the meet and greet area and I didnt start the discussion. But I will definitely read as I go.
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