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Old 03-12-2013, 12:03 PM   #1
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I need to up my post count so I can PM Braineack about an MS3x...but searching before posting has left me with nothing to post about!!!

Dangit.

My goals are:
  • Street-friendly convertible
  • Occasional auto-x (maybe, never done one yet)
  • Reasonable power levels (120-130whp is fine for now)
  • Reasonable mileage (this is a daily driver, year-round)
  • High reliability (same reason as above)
  • MS3x - allows VVT, also allows me to re-use when I V8 swap in future

My plans are:
  1. MS3x w. DIYBOB (incl. IAT, MAP conversion, LC-1)
  2. Tune tune tune tune.
  3. Sequential conversion
  4. Tune tune tune tune.
  5. COP conversion
  6. Tune tune tune tune.
  7. 1.8 diff/axles
  8. VVT engine & new exhaust
  9. Tune tune tune tune.
  10. Dyno.

I know, no turbo option on there...maybe that will change if I find the right stuff for sale used. Realistically at this point I'm just looking at the MS/seq/COP mods for now.

Car currently has FM Stage 1 clutch happymeal, FCM bumpstops w. NB tophats, GR-2 shocks. Going on in the spring are Rota Slipstreams (15x7) w. 195/50-15 RE-11s (got in a trade). I've also gone through and replaced all coolant hoses, the radiator, and a pile of other 'maintenance' items.

Documenting my research here: VVT swap info - PTC Lab Wiki

I will conclude with this...MT.net is awesome.
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:05 PM   #2
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Welcome. Very nice approach, I'm sure most would approve.

Post some pics of your car here (I know you already posted a link, we're lazy) and you'll be at 15 posts in no time.
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:08 PM   #3
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Why COPs? If you are thinking V8 swap in the future, you might as well go for the GM LS2 truck coils now, so you only have to buy those once. Your COPs won't fit on the V8.
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:10 PM   #4
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/\ That makes sense.

GM cops seem to be all the rage around these parts these days anyway
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:13 PM   #5
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Will post some up shortly.

V8 swap is wayyyyy (way) down the road. COPs, from what I gather, mean that I no longer need to buy plug wires and get the same benefits of the LS coils (and less EMI?).

I couldn't find anything definite on the exact benefits of COPs vs. LS coils, aside from what I mention above. LS coils are supposed to be better for high-PSI turbo, but that doesn't apply for my case (COPs max out at 20-ish PSI of boost? lol).

edit: I suppose that means MS3x reasoning is flawed. MS3x has many other benefits aside from V8 support, so...yah.
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:19 PM   #6
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The stock coils aren't anything to write home about, but for stock power they do fine. I would think that with no boost, any extra spark is just going to be money you could have spent elsewhere, whether they be COPs or LS2 coils.
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:19 PM   #7
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ms3x is great for vvt. anything prior and you'd need a vvtuner. bleh
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:20 PM   #8
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Hm, I've read that you get improved idle, MPG, and things smooth out some, even on stock power. (lazzer is the user that comes to mind)

edit: Holy replies batman! Yeah, MS3 requirement also tied in to the VVT line of thinking (I could still be swayed to turbo). USB connectivity, SD datalogging, and better resolution are all wins for MS3 in my book.
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:24 PM   #9
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Your plans are spot on. With a vvt long block, seq everything, ev14s and cops and some real good tuning you should get exactly what you want: a potent/efficient, and extremely reliable n/a miata you can enjoy for years to come (that is til you get tired of 140whp and go v8)
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:41 PM   #10
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Sweet, thanks.

Pics.

Made a new friend. - No longer have the wheels, and the lip was ripped off during a big snowstorm (yay for ignoring my gut to remove prior to winter).


Clutch change. - Engine bay is still that gross - it was late November and I had no opportunity to power wash. Like 1" of gunk caked in there.




No other decent pics, because the body/paint is in bad shape so why bother. Rocker rust is minimal at this point (visually anyways) - that's on my preventative maintenance list for spring/summer.

I got the hardtop removed the other day...finally sort of close to full-time top-down weather! (+5C, good enough for me)

Wheeee pics. Okay one more...

Attached Thumbnails
Newbie with a (good?) problem-miata_friends.jpg   Newbie with a (good?) problem-engine_pull1.jpg   Newbie with a (good?) problem-engine_pull4.jpg   Newbie with a (good?) problem-engine_pull12.jpg   Newbie with a (good?) problem-wheels.jpg  

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Old 03-12-2013, 12:56 PM   #11
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18psi, looked up EV14, didn't realize they were injectors! My understanding was NB injectors are sufficient for up to 150whp or so...

One of the items in my research list is 'how do larger injectors impact fuel delivery during normal driving conditions (i.e. MPG, idle, etc)'. Now I have another search parameter, thank you.
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Old 03-12-2013, 01:02 PM   #12
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oh yeah the stock nb ones will do just fine, but you mentioned running sequential, etc and I suggested ev14's cause its much newer technology which will work way more precisely.

Unnecessary for your plans, but beneficial.
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Old 03-12-2013, 01:22 PM   #13
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Spent some lunchtime learning.

This is a great read on why sequential injection/ignition: https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquir...my-ms3x-49950/

And this is why larger/better injectors: https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquir...ndation-69189/

Quote:
E02K says: Anything is going to be better than the stock style EV1 squirtguns you are running now. Size isn't a super-duper concern with the superior spray patters and the (compared to what you are using now) speed of light latency of the EV14s that are available these days.

Better latency = better control, better atomization = higher efficiency. As long as you can control them, its win-win.
Thanks for confirming this. Efficiency benefits are always something I'm interested in. They are rather expensive, though (ebay links indicate ~$300). What sort of MPG benefits would there be (since that's the only real benefit applicable to my situation) with the better injectors? Guessing minimal...1-3 improvement?
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Old 03-12-2013, 01:24 PM   #14
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Reverant once reported getting something like 40mpg in his car

I know my personal car did 34mpg all hwy just a few weeks ago (stock everything 01 SE) so the 40 claim doesn't sound out of the norm. All city I average 29. MS3x going in as soon as I get a day off
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Old 03-12-2013, 01:31 PM   #15
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Dag...I'm around 25-26 right now (mostly city, mostly zippy driving). Even a boost up to 30 would be worth it over the long term. WAF should be high with this project.
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Old 03-13-2013, 03:44 AM   #16
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Welcome, crazymittens!
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Old 03-13-2013, 05:24 PM   #17
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Thank you!! Your posts have been super-informative and somewhat inspirational - thanks for your contributions!!!

If you catch this...are you going to be offering MS3 Enhanced, or is that a Reverant-only thing? I was dead set on MS3x built by you...but the comparo chart showing MS3 Enhanced was delicious.
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Old 03-13-2013, 06:19 PM   #18
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ms3 enhanced is not out yet, and no eta.
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Old 03-13-2013, 08:27 PM   #19
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I wouldn't fear going turbo, BTW. You're already doing the hard part . . . tuning. A lower boost setup can be extremely reliable and will get great mileage if tuned (actually better than NA, the turbine recovers waste heat -- if you can keep your foot out of it).
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Old 03-13-2013, 08:44 PM   #20
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Thanks 18psi, I saw the MS Labs thread on it. Just seems silly to get MS3x when Enhanced has so much more. Haha, not like I'm ready to get either (read: $).

Hornetball, it's not that I fear going turbo (I own and have read Corky Bell's book several times) - it's that I've read Maximum Boost, and now cannot be satisfied with a lesser turbo system. As far as I can see, I'd want to spend a good $5-6k from BEGi. The least I'd have to spend is $3k from BEGi for a Shanghai system.

That being said, I'm not averse to turbo if a good used system comes up.

Still...first things first...
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