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Old 06-06-2008, 02:26 AM   #1
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Default Noob looking to turbo his track Miata

hi, all: My name is William.

I am looking to turbo my track Miata. I bought a turbo Miata an year go, 02 FM turbo with Link. tracked it may be 5 times. it was too nice (only 29k miles on it), leather, air, SE model. decided to buy another natural aspirated 99 Miata to track.

on the 99 Miata, I've stripped air, power steering. installed a 6 speed, roll bar, race seat, 6-points harness, big radiator, big brake kit, XP12 pads, 15x9 wheels, NT01. I've tracked it may be 12 times so far. I've tracked with some of you here. I drive very hard, am looking for something that will be super reliable on track. track I drive are mostly in the SOCAL desert. on Roval at Cal Speedway, I was WOT for 40 seconds.

I've planned to add an oil cooler and a coolant reroute. I also have an extractor hood sitting in my garage.

need recommendations: I've done some research, prefer Bell S2/S3 kit, because of stainless steel water and oil lines, remote oil sensor (new), 10mm studs and so on.

my priority is max reliability and durability, then power (I will be happy with 180-200whp).

pro and con of 2554 vs. 2560 ? I said 2554 because in my other 2560 turbo car, short shifting at 6.5k rpm helps lowering temp. and may be 2554 just barely running out of steam by then ?

I need to pick an ECU? don't really like Xede. I see a lots on sale, there must be a reason ?

any other options I should look for in terms of reliability ?

02, FM2 Piggy, Flex 9/6kg, reroute, BBK, XP12, 6UL, 200WHP
99, BBK XP12, Koyo, 6UL, custom SS 12/7kg, 120WHP, ES bushing
Beck's 550,1300LB,150HP

Last edited by bellwilliam; 06-06-2008 at 05:32 AM.
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Old 06-06-2008, 02:51 AM   #2
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Go with the 2560 instead of the 2554, you shouldn't have an issue with temp?

I'd say go with a MegaSquirt or if you want to do something a little nicer you could do a Hydra.

What are you doing for an intercooler? Could also possibly do water injection for the extra cooling if you wanted, definitely not necessary though.
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Old 06-06-2008, 03:28 AM   #3
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i agree with crashscar


post pics now!!
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Old 06-06-2008, 05:03 AM   #4
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silver car is my 02 turbo, FM.

red car is the one I am currently tracking. and wish to install a turbo.

as for I/C, I don't think I will get Bell's, I want to go with over radiator I/C piping, similar to trackdogracing (but not payiing $1200). It seems to be much cleaner. anything I should watch for ?

may be you expert will chime in on water injection. only issue I have is if something on WI malfunctions (I've known of 2 such failure on track), it will take my engine with it.

on my 02 FM turbo, I have Shawn Church tuned it for 91 gas, but I always run on 100 (with some 91 already in the tank) when on track. for safety margin. may be also tune my 99 for 91 gas (or 100, as this is a track only car ?) , but add water injection for safety margin ?

would I have any issue running Megasquirt on a 99 ? Hydra is a bit more money then I am willing to spend, when Megasquirt seem to do it all.

again I want to emphasize on reliability. I track it a lot, and in 100F + weather. I do push my cars very hard. thanks.
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Old 06-06-2008, 05:30 AM   #5
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Yes, I'd say use water injection as a safety. Tune it to run well without the water injection on the street, then throw WI into the mix and datalog. Just confirm everything is good and run it like that for the extra cooling on track.

I personally don't like the over the radiator IC piping and think it can be done easier.
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Old 06-06-2008, 09:03 AM   #6
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I dont understand how over the top is always "cleaner" install.....hell you can't even see mine.

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Old 06-06-2008, 10:01 AM   #7
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William, Megasquirt run as piggyback on your '99 is a great idea. There is a guy on the forum who "may" build you a MS and a patch harness that makes it a complete solution for full fuel/spark and leaves the stock ECU to run idle and the alternator... plus it's fully reversible in about 2 seconds.

I'd agree with one of the Bell kits. I'd go with a cast-ceramic coated manifold for reliability and a 2560. The Bell divorced gas SS downpipe and the Enthuza 3" exhaust to complete the package.

On a '99, that will get you 200whp at around 8psi. Running that low boost, even a small intercooler will be efficient enough to keep IAT's down. I'd go with something medium-sized anyways considering your desert playground. I'd do the IC from eBay as you have no PS/AC to get in the way, routing the hot-side IC piping is a piece of cake... any of the 3" IC's and a $100 2.5" pipe kit with silicone couplers and t-bolt clamps will provide you with way more pipe than you need. For ease of the cold-side, talk to Begi about buying their TB inlet pipe which includes taps for a BOV, IAC bung, and get them to weld in an IAT sensor. I would definitely go AROUND THE RADIATOR, not over it. Guys wil AC/PS are always looking for a way to make routing easier, and OVER THE RAD get you there... but with no PS/AC, just go around.

For a BOV, considering every shift will be almost WOT, I'd think you'll want something quiet... nothing is quieter than a Bosch OEM unit, but perhaps the Forge unit that vents into a homemade silencer? I'll be building a '99 when I've finally had enough of my '93 and a silenced Forge unit it right at the top of my list for stealth on the street. Putting up with a TurboXS RFL on the track would get old after the first lap.

Filter placement will be key to ensuring you get the coldest air you can. Do some reasearch and have a look throught he VBGarage and the Pictures link at the top of the page for the several hundred variations on where to locate your air filter. Very popular is a DIY sheetmetal box located behind the drivers headlight with a NACA duct.

Water injection is a great tool, but I'm not sure it's going to be warranted. Using the 2560 at low boost, a medium sized IC, big radiator, well-placed filter, plenty of weight reduction, good tune... you should be fine for temps. If you do decide, it wouldn't be that big of a deal to to integrate the very popular Devil's Own Kit... and you could probably run a very small jet as you wouldn't need very much cooling. Actually, it might be that added piece of safety/longevity you're looking for. I think the "full" kit is only $300.
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Old 06-06-2008, 12:05 PM   #8
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bellwilliam,

I'm building a turbo'ed Miata for the track as well. I don't go as often and mostly hit VIR and Summit Point here in Va for my trackdays. I'm heading to Summit for the first time, with a turbo, in July.

I'm thinking along the same lines you are. A mildly boosted motor built more for reliability than crushing power. I'm also on a budget which adds a significant wrinkle to the works.

Currently I have a base Greddy setup. I'm adding an RX-7 IC with what I think is an IC kit from Stripes. I bought the kit used so I'm not sure of it's origin. I have a bipes and vortech FMU. I'd also like to add an oil cooler before the track day as Virginia in July has a lot in common with Hell but with more humidity. With these parts I should be able to cool the oil, intake charge, and the engine. I'm hoping that should help with reliability. I'd love to get an extractor hood but I'm not sure that will happen before my event.

My goal is to boost at least 5-6 psi on the track in July. I'm running a 1.6L so that may put me in the 130-140 hp area. A good bit better than the 100hp that 1.6's put out stock.

I'm currently testing the setup to see how reliable it is. The extent of my testing has been a 4th gear 30 min drive to work. That equates to 4k rpm for the duration. That is not under boost as it would be at the track. I may have to consider another testing regimen to ensure reliability at speed. The test was successful as the car didn't overheat or have any mechanicals. It did melt some paint off the bumper as the exhaust pipe is too short. I think the ricer who owned it before me had some sort of fart can tip on it. That jackass...
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Old 06-06-2008, 01:23 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samnavy View Post
William, Megasquirt run as piggyback on your '99 is a great idea. There is a guy on the forum who "may" build you a MS and a patch harness that makes it a complete solution for full fuel/spark and leaves the stock ECU to run idle and the alternator... plus it's fully reversible in about 2 seconds.
can you let me know who that might be ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by samnavy View Post
For ease of the cold-side, talk to Begi about buying their TB inlet pipe which includes taps for a BOV, IAC bung, and get them to weld in an IAT sensor. I would definitely go AROUND THE RADIATOR, not over it. Guys wil AC/PS are always looking for a way to make routing easier, and OVER THE RAD get you there... but with no PS/AC, just go around.
good idea, I will ask Corky.

Quote:
Originally Posted by samnavy View Post
For a BOV, considering every shift will be almost WOT, I'd think you'll want something quiet... nothing is quieter than a Bosch OEM unit,
don't Bell kit come with a BOV ? which one would that be ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by samnavy View Post
Filter placement will be key to ensuring you get the coldest air you can
.
Bell kit does come with a enclosed/separated cold air box.

Sam: thanks !! that helped a lot !!

SchoonerPaul: althought I am a noob in turbo kit. I do have experience running turbo Miata on track. I can tell you that it is the little things that breaks. things like turbo studs backing out, turbo oil/water lines melting, remote oil sensor cracking and so on. those are things you need to watch for. My FM2 turbo had to be modded to run correctly on track, that's why I am now pretty impressed with Bell's kit. it is 80% there. To me, biggest temp drop was from coolant reroute, that is a must IMHO.
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Old 06-06-2008, 02:55 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
althought I am a noob in turbo kit. I do have experience running turbo Miata on track. I can tell you that it is the little things that breaks. things like turbo studs backing out, turbo oil/water lines melting, remote oil sensor cracking and so on. those are things you need to watch for. My FM2 turbo had to be modded to run correctly on track, that's why I am now pretty impressed with Bell's kit. it is 80% there. To me, biggest temp drop was from coolant reroute, that is a must IMHO.
Thanks for the tips. I'll keep an eye out for some of those things. Hopefully I'll be able to handle whichever event occurs at the track.
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Old 06-06-2008, 03:27 PM   #11
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bellwilliam as chad about the harness

his sn is: Cjernigan
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Old 06-06-2008, 05:05 PM   #12
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My setup is currently alot like what SchoonerPaul is looking to do. I'd suggest geting larger turbo to manifold studs, wouldn't hurt to safety wire them, and a ceramic coated tony dp. Also don't run more retarded than about 8* base timing. I haven't needed a coolant re-route as my big oilcooler is more than adequate. I let a friend drive my car and lost a water pump belt and brought it into the pits within a lap under boost without running hot. I'm planning that for when I'm running 240ish.

Keep your nose open at the track.
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