1.6 Coilpack & finding TDC question - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


MEGAsquirt A place to collectively sort out this megasquirt gizmo

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-13-2007, 11:22 PM   #1
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Rijeka, Croatia
Posts: 9
Total Cats: 0
Default 1.6 Coilpack & finding TDC question

Hi,

I'm new on this forum so first I'll put a short introduction - my name is Velibor (Rijeka, Croatia) and momentarily I'm doing MS instalation for my friend's MX5 1.6 turbo...

I have done few succesful MS instalation in the past , but this is first on Mazda so I have couple of questions for Mazda experts around here


1. I searched for some more info about Mazda ignition systems on this forum, on MS-EFI forum and through reading MX5 manuals in PDF but I still have some doubts - this particular car is 2001 Mazda MX5 with 1.6 engine and has coilpack with 6-pin connector - here is picture:

Name:  Mazda_6pin_coilpack.jpg
Views: 43
Size:  90.8 KB

Is this coilpack with integrated ignitors? If not, why does it need 6 wires ?
Can such coils work without problems with MS 1 V3.0 ?



2. I found two small notches on crank pulley - they are marked with red arrows on pic:



Distance between them is exactly like distance between upper two signs "10" and "T" (probably 1O deg BTDC and TDC)...so my first thought is that when 2 notches come inline with two upper mentioned signs, that engine is exactly in TDC - is this correct or I am on totaly wrong track?

Is there another/more precise way for adjusting TDC timing?

Tnx in advance,

Velibor
Bubba Zanetti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2007, 01:37 AM   #2
Newb
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Qc, Canada
Posts: 43
Total Cats: 0
Default

You're right, that's your TDC mark. Another way to confirm it, remove the spark plug and touch the piston with a long screw driver. You'll know when no.1 is TDC.

Your coil pack is 6 wires, but it's a wasted spark system, so 2 12V wires(1 for each coil) 1 wire on each coil to spark cyl. no,1-3 and 2-4. your pully seems to be 60-2 theets. You could build your MS unit with VR sensor for input. That's the easiest way to setup MS in wasted spark system.

I dont really understand what you mean by "adjusting TDC" but you can adjust -10 deg by spark setting/trigger angle

Good luck
mazdasly75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2007, 09:39 AM   #3
:(
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: nowhere
Posts: 8,281
Total Cats: 2
Default

he means finding TDC not adjusting it. the two marks are confusing him. I dont know about the later yaer 1.6's in you case i would use a screwdriver or the dipstick to indicate the TDC #1 and avoid all doubt. welcome to the forum.
magnamx-5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2007, 11:10 AM   #4
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Rijeka, Croatia
Posts: 9
Total Cats: 0
Default

2 mazdasly75:

Ok, to resume finding TDC - when two small notches on crank pulley are inline with two upper marks - piston No. 1 is at TDC...good thing is that old screwdriver method always work, if everything else fails he,he


I understand basics of wasted spark systems - but usualy OEM coilpacks (without ignitors) in such systems (4 cyl applications) need only 3 wire connector: one for 1-4 coil, second for +12V power supply and third for 2-3 coil.

OK , maybe some coilpack can have 4-pin connector if uses separate wires for +12V, but that's not necessary.

And on this coilpack six wires are used :

Name:  Mazda_coilpack_wires.jpg
Views: 27
Size:  25.0 KB

So two red wires should be two +12V supplies for two coils, green & blue wires should be probably 1-4 & 2-3 cyl. output from ECU and finaly, we have 2 black wires .... and there is confusion - if they are conected to ground , that means that each coilpack MUST have his dedicated ignitor built inside coilpack - am I right?


You are right about toothed wheel - after careful planning what to do with ignition system I made custom 60-2 wheel that mounts directly on crank pulley via 4 M6 long bolts...toothed wheel also has slots so I can adjust trigger angle cca +/- 25 very easily .

Of course, I also had to make small bracket for mounting VR sensor - all that can be seen on this pic:

Name:  Mazda_60_2_wheel.jpg
Views: 28
Size:  72.2 KB

What do you think - will such setup work OK?

Feel free too criticise everything you see here - after all ,I am megasquirting my first MX5
Bubba Zanetti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2007, 11:16 AM   #5
:(
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: nowhere
Posts: 8,281
Total Cats: 2
Default

you have six wires becouse each coil uses 3 wires. 2 hot feeds and a ground controll i believe to controll wich cylinder starts the sparkcycle this makes a minute diference in time to ignition but it does make us more accurate. The setup looks sweet. not alot of 1.6 NB or 94+ miatas on this board as they are a non american market car but still the 1.6 is the best motor i feel. GL man i hope you make some realy big power
magnamx-5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2007, 11:39 AM   #6
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Rijeka, Croatia
Posts: 9
Total Cats: 0
Default

2 magnamx-5:

Tnx ,

So I have one +12V supply per coil (red wires), one for MS ignition output (green/blue wires) and 2 black are connected to ground - but is their purpose only when OEM setup controls spark or it has to be permanetly connected to ground even with MS ECU?


Hmm, how should I connect such coilpack to MS 1 V3.0 - should I use VB ignition drivers?

Anyone use such coilpacks on this forum with success ?
Bubba Zanetti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2007, 11:53 AM   #7
:(
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: nowhere
Posts: 8,281
Total Cats: 2
Default

on the standard 1.6 coil packs we use for the 93 and earlier modles i believe we can not use the vb ignitor we must instead use the stock ignitor. There is also a GM coil mod that is quite popular maybe if you read up on that you will find the information you seek as it outlines how to take to GM coils and run them on our ecu. I personally have not messed with the coils to much. So GL man and no sweat it is why i am here English is not my primary language either so i understand some things abit easier. http://www.linuxpupil.com/2twisty/Coils/

Last edited by magnamx-5; 03-14-2007 at 12:18 PM.
magnamx-5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2007, 08:18 PM   #8
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Rijeka, Croatia
Posts: 9
Total Cats: 0
Default

2 magnamx-5:

Unfortunately your link doesn't work - please, can you check again if link is correct...


Today I made simple coilpack test - I connected +12V to one red wire, ground to one black wire and connected spark plug with cable on one coil output.

When I touched third pin (green wire) with +12V - iron core shakes and nice spark jumps from electrode to ground...so it seems that ignitor is integrated inside coil afterall , if that's the case, my job will be much more simpler because I can probably drive coilpacks directly from LED 17 & 19 outputs, with the help of pull-up resistors.
Bubba Zanetti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2007, 08:53 PM   #9
Elite Member
iTrader: (13)
 
cjernigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 8,147
Total Cats: 6
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba Zanetti View Post
2 magnamx-5:

Unfortunately your link doesn't work - please, can you check again if link is correct...


Today I made simple coilpack test - I connected +12V to one red wire, ground to one black wire and connected spark plug with cable on one coil output.

When I touched third pin (green wire) with +12V - iron core shakes and nice spark jumps from electrode to ground...so it seems that ignitor is integrated inside coil afterall , if that's the case, my job will be much more simpler because I can probably drive coilpacks directly from LED 17 & 19 outputs, with the help of pull-up resistors.
https://www.miataturbo.net/forums/showthread.php?t=4388

Go to this link. It shows exactly what modifications you need to do. Such as the 17 and 19 LED pullup resistor mod.
cjernigan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2007, 11:00 PM   #10
Newb
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Qc, Canada
Posts: 43
Total Cats: 0
Default

Your thooths wheel setup is awsome, congrulation dude, that's remember me a couple of SDS installation, finding a good spot for mounting bracket is funny.

If you're unsure about your coil, you can build VB921 spark output using 420A coilpack from twincam neon. They're uge and low on price.
mazdasly75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2007, 11:11 AM   #11
:(
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: nowhere
Posts: 8,281
Total Cats: 2
Default

worked for me before hmm gues the page got deleted.
magnamx-5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2007, 10:26 PM   #12
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Rijeka, Croatia
Posts: 9
Total Cats: 0
Default

2 cjernigan:

Tnx for link - it seems that there are lot of interesting details about Mazda ignition setup.



Today I tested MS (V3, with MSnS-extra firmware) on table, connected to coilpacks - and bingo - I've got good & solid spark when coilpacks are driven directly from LED 17 & 19 outputs

So it seems that my assumption was correct - this should be internal schematic of coilpacks:

Name:  mazda_coilpacks.gif
Views: 40
Size:  6.6 KB


Btw, I must ask something not directly related to MS - how much boost can safely support std Mazda internals with std CR and 98 octane fuel, with FMIC ?

I guess with good and careful mapping engine should live happily on 7psi of boost as daily driver , but I want to know your experiences and possible limits of some engine parts.
Bubba Zanetti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2007, 10:05 AM   #13
:(
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: nowhere
Posts: 8,281
Total Cats: 2
Default

300whp on stock motors has been done but with decreased engine life. At 250whp you should last many thousand miles. The boost is irrelavent, just look at the flow and HP this will be you limiting factor, not the ability of the motor to hold pressure 15 psi is run all day by alot of us. The bigest problem of miata tubro systems is poor cooling and fueling, but with MS and a good FMIC, or WI this is no problem.
magnamx-5 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap Full_Tilt_Boogie Build Threads 57 07-19-2017 05:11 PM
1994 Spec Miata Race Car SM/SM2/SSM For Sale Quinn Cars for sale/trade 6 10-23-2016 08:58 AM
Going back to stock. Need some 1.6 parts. Trent WTB 2 10-01-2015 01:15 PM
Low oil pressure after 1.8 swap and new turbo setup JesseTheNoob DIY Turbo Discussion 15 09-30-2015 03:44 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:00 AM.