bignickmetro

I have a 1993 with a DIYPNP and a T25 turbo. I burnt up a piston on the original 1.6 engine, so I found another 1.6 locally and swapped it in, it took me 2 days and everything went fine. Fired up first try, no leaks. So I drove it for a little over a year, until a month ago when the turbo seized up. I got a new turbo for it, and found a great deal on a rebuilt 1.8 so I got a new manifold and did the swap. I upgraded to sequential fuel since I had to open up the megasquirt and rewire the TPS anyway. Also added EBC solenoid on PA0. Now I just can't get it to start! This new engine just cranks and cranks.

I have been battling with every little thing. Took me a while but I finally got it to the point where INJ1234 are set to 1342 correctly, and they click when I test them, they are 460cc rx7 with resistors. The fuel pump is running. Spark plugs 1 and 4 both fire when I test coil A, 2 and 3 on coil B.

I had to rewire the CAS and the harness was all wonky with different color wires than should be there, but I figured it out and it now gives me a signal in composite logger. I don't really know how to read it though, but both cam and crank signals are there. I can take logs or pics tomorrow.

I changed the fueling to sequential, and recalculated reqfuel for the 1.8. Attached is the dialog. I looked through almost all the windows on this tune and I think the settings look ok, other than I haven't touched ignition or VE tables. I was planning on just starting it then autotuning. I also loaded the base maps and no start with those either.

What should I do to get this running? What do you guys need to see to recommend the next step (log files, etc)? I haven't confirmed the timing belt but the engine was pulled running so it should be fine.

Where should the CAS sensor be in its adjustment range, just to get it started a little? I know how to set timing with a light and the trigger wizard once it is running. But can I tell roughly where to put it with composite logger? like all the way left, right, or in the middle?

Thanks in advance for the help! I am so upset and frustrated! Also did a torsen swap and my axle was stuck in the hub bad. Took it to a shop to get it pressed out and they broke the spindle :( All kinds of problems like this.

ryansmoneypit

iTrader: (6)

Are plugs wet? When I was fiddling with mine, i found that if plugs got soaked, they were trash. instantly pretty much.

The struggle is real. for about three years now.

bignickmetro

the plugs aren't soaked or anything, but i'm pretty sure its getting fuel because i noticed a small fuel leak and had to replace a torn injector o-ring.i attached a shot of my composite logger during cranking. can anyone help me decipher?

also i noticed my fuel load is very high, is this a massive air leak or bad MAP sensor settings?

bignickmetro

boom I got it started! turns out it was getting fuel, just not nearly enough. I had to adjust my VE tables like wayyyyyy higher. i'm going to have to start completely over on the tune, re-do the cranking settings, ASE, WUE, everything. but at least I can probably get it drive-able tomorrow. then book an appointment to get it dyno tuned in the next week or two.

mj1176

When you changed the req fuel for the 1.8 did you also account for the new injector size? If not, revert the changes you made to the VE table and recalculate req fuel.

bignickmetro

I couldn't get it to start the next day AT ALL. I sat cranking it and changing parameters in MS for hours. then magically it did start and ran perfectly for like 45seconds, then shut off and wouldn't restart. There is nothing wrong with it mechanically, and I verified timing with a light. its within two degrees, once i get a stable idle I will get it perfect. But there is something up with the tune. I am going to mess with some more stuff today.

I was already running on the 460cc on my old motor so I didn't really need to change req fuel but i did the calculator to adjust for the 1.6>1.8 change. Set to 7.6 now.

bignickmetro

I think I might have a bad injector or some weird injector wiring. because 1 of the injectors sounds drastically different than the others when its clicking in test mode. Also, the car will catch for a second after some test mode injections. so its not getting enough fuel, even though this PW is way high. If i am getting test mode click on each injector in the correct order it confirms my seq fuel module is installed correctly right?

I ordered a set of flow force injectors, and I am going to test the fuel pressure at the rail tomorrow to make sure its not a bad pump. The guy who first installed the ms in the car just wired up the fuel pump to a switch/relay so it runs all the time, its not controlled by MS.

grrrr this is driving me crazy.

bignickmetro

I installed the new injectors and fuel pump today, flow force 610cc and Walbro 255. I managed to get the car running(!!) after a few hours of messing with settings in megasquirt and double-triple checking all my connections. Found my IAC had a loose wire so engine was choking. I messed around with priming pulse, cranking pulse, and VE numbers for like 3 hours trying to get it running smoothly.

The only way I could get it to start is with a reqfuel of 16. This does't seem right, the calculator recommends like 5.2. I understand its just a number used in the fueling calc, your reqfuel goes up and the VE numbers in the fuel table go down. But this seems high. Could it be 1 of the 4 injectors isn't opening or something? I'm guessing if one was missing I'd be able to tell since it's port injection. My pulsewidth at idle is ~9ms, and to get it start it needs a cranking PW of like 30+. It was actually running pretty smoothly and idling right around 14.5.

Hopefully tomorrow I can get it at least a tiny bit driveable and limp it to my tuner and make him sort out all these numbers.

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

have you still not even tested to make sure each fuel injector is firing? you did the spark, no mention that you even testing fuel...

bignickmetro

yes i tested the injectors right after I did the sequential install. They are clicking in the correct order when I go into test mode. I had to make a custom harness for the new injectors and those are testing normally too. My problem is all in the tune I think. I am going to get some stuff buttoned up today, I had a bad water leak at the turbo fitting and I need to re-route some intercooler piping, I just dropped the radiator a little bit.

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

should have had to change much if the injector size didnt change as well. overall youd probably need to remove maybe like 10% fueling throughout, but it should have started right up.

when you install FF injectors,however, it SIGNIFICANTLY changes the fuel map. putting in the correct deadtimes and small pulse width curve is very important and you need to add like 30 to your VE fuel map throughout -- so idle cells are around 60% (im assuming your idle cells were around 30% before).

and then adding a 255lph pump again changes fueling requirements a lot. where the pump overloads the stock FPR and you need to remove fuel throughout -- probably via the req_fuel so you dont have redo all the startup tables. :P

bignickmetro

well i got it off the jackstands for the first time in a few weeks!! messed around with the tune and settings for a loooooong time today, and was able to take it for a short drive around the block. Was really struggling getting it started again till I realized the damn IAC came unplugged again, the connector is all mangled, I will have to replace it. Once I plugged it in correctly it idled up real hard (2300rpm) then slowly came back down as the autotune ran. It did move under its own power today but keeps falling on its face with anything more than a tiny bit of throttle. I tried a little bit of AE, then a lot of AE. I'm going to work on it some more tomorrow.

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

your tune needs major work, and it doesnt sound like youre touching to correct places. you made a LOT of changes all at once.

bignickmetro

I agree it is probably something with the tune.
It is starting and running on the tune I have been working on, but still dies with any throttle input. I also loaded the DIYPNP base map for 1.8 with sequential fuel and got it started on that too, after changing a few of the settings that I knew were incorrect, like the injector deadtime and idle valve duty %. Same thing though, dies with any throttle. I will have it sitting there idling at around 14AFR and its around 5ms PW. I am watching the fueling calculations summary gauges and this will be after ASE and WUE are over, so the total correction is nothing. The PW will be like 5ms, if I barely press throttle like 1-2%, the PW and RPM will increase, but if I give it anything over 5% throttle the PW goes to like 12ms and the car instantly dies. I don't mean a throttle blip I mean just slow tiny throttle and it will die. It acts the same on my tune with no AE, and on the base map with AE ranging from 2-6ms. The vTPS seems to function normally, I calibrated it and it sweeps from 0-100% just fine.


I played around with req fuel, VE values, cranking pulse %, cranking idle valve duty a bunch today. I can get it started and idling with a req fuel of 5 or 5.2 like the calculator suggests, but then the VE values are in the high 200s just idling. If I change the reqfuel to 13 like the DIYPNP basemap suggests, the VE looks a little more normal.

I would post the tune but you know what a base map looks like. I can if you want. I will try to take a video tomorrow of the fuel calculation summary gauges so you can see what is going on.

New fuel pump is pretty loud and definitely working. If the stock FPR is that shitty I have an AEM unit I can install. I will probably do that soon, and go rent a gauge from autozone and make sure nothing weird is going on with the fuel pressure.


what is the idle valve frequency I should use for a NA 1.8? I have been using 186hz but it makes a weird humming noise sometimes. I did the idle valve test and I got numbers of 26 and 64, it seems to be working though I can hear it opening and closing doing its CL idle thing.

bignickmetro

I read through a bunch of posts about getting new MS installs started so I took that approach and started with open-loop idle. Adjusted my idle spark up for highest vacuum, changed the cells around idle to 19* from 14*. I turned CLI back on and am working on getting that idle more consistent.

The biggest change I made was adding a bunch of AE. I looked through my logs and it was definitely lean spiking where I thought it was flooding on throttle. So I am working on slowly ramping up the AE to where it feels comfortable. I am able to actually rev the engine a little now! Once I charge my battery a little I will keep working on the AE and then start tuning VE table. right now I just have the cells immediately around idle tuned, scaled the rest of the table so the numbers were sorta close.

bignickmetro

OMG i was making great progress working on the tune today until the car started struggling when cranking. I thought it was the battery but swapped batteries with my other car and it's still having problems. Starter is trying, just not spinning fast enough, can only get the engine up to about 200rpm. It makes me think it is a loose ground or shitty connection somewhere. Not a bad relay or fuse. I will try running some heavy 4ga wire for grounds and 12v and see if it helps. If it still wont start I guess I can throw on my other starter.

Sigh...

Matt Cramer

200 cranking RPM should be adequate.

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

200 is good. my starter only spun to 175 rpm.

bignickmetro

I went ahead and swapped the starter and cleaned the battery ground and PPF ground and the car started up first try. Revs good and I was even able to take it on some autotuning runs up and down the block. Same thing happening with it going lean and dying with anything over 10% throttle. If I drive babying the throttle it will accelerate, but as soon as I hit around 65kpa fuel load it just wants to die, as soon as I back off the throttle it picks up again.

I had 2 rows in the VE table autotuned pretty good, 40-55kpa. Then I turned the car on and off and all of a sudden the A/F was wayyyy different. Like completely lean. I think my LC-1 is acting up. I will do a free air calibration tomorrow and see if it changes. I may have an exhaust leak right at the turbine outlet, could be throwing off my readings. I will investigate more tomorrow.

Also, the new turbo I bought seems to be burning up a good amount of oil. I think my turbo drain might be at too shallow of an angle. I put it in the spot everyone does and I fkn hate it, it interfered with the heater hose which I had to bend out of its way. I should have put it straight under the turbo next to the motor mount like I had planned, but I chickened out when drilling. oh well.

bignickmetro

rented a fuel pressure gauge and yup, it turns out it was a fuel pressure problem this whole time. Got it all sorted out and boom, car is running pretty well and i am able to rev it normally. pulsewidths at idle look wayyyyy more normal, 1.5ms or so. I have been driving around autotuning it. just unhooked my wastegate actuator for now so I will be NA until I can get it up on the dyno.