1.8L w/ 460cc Injectors... cold start problems - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 01-25-2008, 03:04 PM   #1
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Default 1.8L w/ 460cc Injectors... cold start problems

Ok, I didn't want to bring this up before because I was having sensor accuracy issues. Now that those problems have been fixed I'm stilling having issues.

I can't get my car to start when the temp is below 45-50*. Everything above is perfectly fine.

I'm currently using the DIY settings scaled down (using their calc.) * 0.75 (75%). When I use their values straight I couldn't start the car at all without flooding issues. I've tried scaling the numbers back 1.5 ms more and then slowly adding fuel (.1 ms at a time) and it never starts. It will catch once or twice, but never more than 1 cycle.

Has anyone got a starting table for the 1.8L w/ 460cc combo? This **** is getting old. I've had to tow the car home once and this will be the 3rd time I've had to get a ride home from work. Kinda of embarrassing.
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Old 01-25-2008, 03:07 PM   #2
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everyone else has been having good luck with the numbers i posted before....


https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/sho...82&postcount=8
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Old 01-25-2008, 03:10 PM   #3
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Did you solve the CLT inaccuracy issue?

off topic, but how did you pass inspection? Success?

If its catching but not starting, does it start on the second attempt to crank?
Have you tried tweaking your ASE?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
everyone else has been having good luck with the numbers i posted before....


https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/sho...82&postcount=8
Theoretically, if all things remain equal a 1.6 vs 1.8, the 1.8 would need longer PW's?

Arkmage, if the weather is good this weekend im gonna throw in my 460's. Ill let you know how that goes. We have temps in the 20's here in NY, so that will be very interesting.
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Old 01-25-2008, 03:33 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saml01 View Post
Theoretically, if all things remain equal a 1.6 vs 1.8, the 1.8 would need longer PW's?

possibly less, but the values they start with are almost the same 1.6 vs 1.8 map.
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Old 01-25-2008, 03:33 PM   #5
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Do you have your idle valve working? I don't. I also have a lot of trouble starting at the colder temps. I find sometimes just feeding it a bit of throttle and cranking it for a while will make it eventually crank and come to life. EDIT: Don't do anything quick with the throttle. Just push the pedal down a wee bit and hold it still.

I have the biggest problems when I'm half way between two of the table points. Like I can get 60 degrees to work. I can get 40 degrees to work. But then the next day it'll be maybe 50 degrees, and I'll have trouble. So I tweak things to get 50 to start, and then 40 and 60 aren't great anymore. I haven't messed with it in a while, though. The car has been on jack stands with no springs/shocks for like a month.

What timing are you running during cranking and in your low RPM and high load cells? Do you have a 94-97, 99-00, or 2001+ engine?

-Mike
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Old 01-25-2008, 03:54 PM   #6
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Idle valve is controlled by the stock ECU. I assume it is working normally.

The motor is from a '92 escort GT, it's essentially a '94 block with a few minor external differences. The car and electronics is '97.

CLT inaccuracy has been fixed, as has the AIT problem. Both read within 5 degrees of each other and a thermometer at ambient temps.

Brain. I've used your values also with not such stellar luck. I'm using the "priming pulse table" "after 2 sec" options. Timing appears to be 10* BTDC during cranking... seems like it should be slightly retarded during cranking? Where is that setting?
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Old 01-25-2008, 03:57 PM   #7
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i think mines advanced to 18 during cranking....under spark settings.
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Old 01-25-2008, 04:00 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
possibly less, but the values they start with are almost the same 1.6 vs 1.8 map.
What does your ASE page look like? Mine is 55% @ -40* and falls 5% per gradient until 80* falls 4% per gradient from 80-160*
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Old 01-25-2008, 04:07 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
i think mines advanced to 18 during cranking....under spark settings.
Ok, found it. Can you double check that please? Here is a pic of mine.

*edit* my timing was at 10* I changed it to 18 before taking the screen shot.
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Old 01-25-2008, 04:16 PM   #10
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yeah 18, hold ignition 0. my ase starts at 45 and drops 5 to 0 at 160
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Old 01-25-2008, 04:27 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
yeah 18, hold ignition 0. my ase starts at 45 and drops 5 to 0 at 160
Take a look at this too. Are my setting up top similar to what you are running?
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Old 01-25-2008, 04:42 PM   #12
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this will be easier:

Attachment 5336
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Old 01-25-2008, 04:52 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkmage View Post
Idle valve is controlled by the stock ECU. I assume it is working normally.

The motor is from a '92 escort GT, it's essentially a '94 block with a few minor external differences. The car and electronics is '97.

CLT inaccuracy has been fixed, as has the AIT problem. Both read within 5 degrees of each other and a thermometer at ambient temps.

Brain. I've used your values also with not such stellar luck. I'm using the "priming pulse table" "after 2 sec" options. Timing appears to be 10* BTDC during cranking... seems like it should be slightly retarded during cranking? Where is that setting?
You wanna PM me your CLT table values so I can fix mine now? Im guessing yours no longer pegs at 215?
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Old 01-25-2008, 05:30 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saml01 View Post
You wanna PM me your CLT table values so I can fix mine now? Im guessing yours no longer pegs at 215?
well... it still does that... but at least my thermostat opens before it does. And it reads below 50* now to, which is a huge plus.
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Old 01-25-2008, 05:36 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
this will be easier:

Attachment 5336
Alrighty... got that into my MSQ now. We'll see what happens after work. With any luck I'll get to drive out of the lot today instead of riding in someone's truck.
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Old 01-25-2008, 05:40 PM   #16
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dont burn that map, just try some of the settings.
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Old 01-25-2008, 05:43 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkmage View Post
well... it still does that... but at least my thermostat opens before it does. And it reads below 50* now to, which is a huge plus.
OH, yours was very very off. Mine reads within 5 - 7 of the AIT and the thermo opens before it pegs.


Question for braineack, probably dumb question to ask, but why does the pnp base map use 10 degrees for cranking advance?

My car has been starting like *** too when its cold. It will crank crank crank , stumble and start,I KNOW its having a hard time. Seems to me 10 degrees is very little timing to really get the engine moving.
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Old 01-25-2008, 07:54 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
dont burn that map, just try some of the settings.
That's what I did... still no dice. I'm think'n the car may have been too badly flooded during my lunch break when I was ******* with it. I'm going to let it sit over night and will likely have to tow it home tomorrow to clean the plugs and blow out the cylinders.... again.
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Old 01-25-2008, 10:19 PM   #19
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Do you want to check out my MSQ? I'm running 550s but maybe something is different about it cause mine starts good when cold. At least it has down to like 10*, I don't DD the car though so it doesn't run everyday.
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Old 01-25-2008, 10:47 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkmage View Post
That's what I did... still no dice. I'm think'n the car may have been too badly flooded during my lunch break when I was ******* with it. I'm going to let it sit over night and will likely have to tow it home tomorrow to clean the plugs and blow out the cylinders.... again.
You should change the map mode during ase to fixed map.


I just reverted all my ASE to exactly how braineak has it, just slightly changed my 20 - 40 degree cranking pws, and change the cranking spark to 18 and the car roared to life perfectly.
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